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Post by atsfan on Jan 20, 2016 18:41:55 GMT -8
Fortunately for some major east coast train shows the big snow is this weekend versus upcoming.
Time for some indoor modeling !
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Post by valenciajim on Jan 21, 2016 1:18:24 GMT -8
We may not have basements in CA, but we also don't have winter.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 21, 2016 4:17:39 GMT -8
I remember seeing a basement in Sacramento when I lived there during college - I think it may be the only one I've seen there. Interesting too in that before the levies, Sacramento used to get flooded sometimes in the spring snow melts from the Sierra Nevada's. It's a shame they don't do basements in California because water problems would probably be few and far between? Plus, you could probably save on A/C with basmeents sunk below ground where they wouldn't get as hot?
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Post by markfj on Jan 21, 2016 5:32:25 GMT -8
My “Jonas” survival plan includes a number of modeling projects that I hope to get to this weekend.
First off, I recently purchase a Bowser C-636 in PC paint off of eBay and plan to do the truck/fuel tank swap this weekend. (Much thanks to Bowser for their fast customer service; I had the replacement parts in two days after sending my email request.)
Second will be some decal work on the resin boxcar kit I recently finished.
There are a bunch of other project scattered about the work area (aren’t there always!), but these are the two I’m most eager to complete.
Hope to get photos of these "finished" projects posted in this week’s photo fun thread.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by atsfan on Jan 21, 2016 5:57:52 GMT -8
I remember seeing a basement in Sacramento when I lived there during college - I think it may be the only one I've seen there. Interesting too in that before the levies, Sacramento used to get flooded sometimes in the spring snow melts from the Sierra Nevada's. It's a shame they don't do basements in California because water problems would probably be few and far between? Plus, you could probably save on A/C with basmeents sunk below ground where they wouldn't get as hot? Underground ones usually need dehumidifying which also costs $# |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 21, 2016 7:01:53 GMT -8
Not a problem. I have a dehumidifier set to about 50-55% humidity year 'round but it really only runs mid-May through mid-September. It doesn't seem to impact my utility bill too much even in the summer when it does run frequently.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 7:17:28 GMT -8
I remember seeing a basement in Sacramento when I lived there during college - I think it may be the only one I've seen there. Interesting too in that before the levies, Sacramento used to get flooded sometimes in the spring snow melts from the Sierra Nevada's. It's a shame they don't do basements in California because water problems would probably be few and far between? Plus, you could probably save on A/C with basmeents sunk below ground where they wouldn't get as hot? Underground ones usually need dehumidifying which also costs $# Of course CA has winter (see: Donner Party, SP rotary plows, 1938 LA flood, etc.), and some basements. Rarely in CA would you need a dehumidifier in a basement. Maybe along the coast north of San Francisco. |
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Post by Gary P on Jan 21, 2016 8:47:31 GMT -8
We may not have basements in CA, but we also don't have winter. Oh sure.....  Rub it in, rub it in! LOL  (I'm in upstate NY) |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 21, 2016 10:24:02 GMT -8
We may not have basements in CA, but we also don't have winter. Oh sure..... Rub it in, rub it in! LOL (I'm in upstate NY) I used to live in Western New York -- everything had a basement. And a sump pump. Or two. AND the dehumidifier. |
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Post by valenciajim on Jan 21, 2016 10:45:53 GMT -8
The water tables are too high in CA for basements. Unless you live on a hillside, you are not likely to have a basement. One exception was about 15 years ago. About four miles west of me they were building custom homes on large lots overlooking the Santa Clarita Valley. Some guy named Mel Gibson bought two lots and built an 8,000 sq. foot house with a huge basement. Mel is a model railroader, so I am sure that was part of the reason he went through the extra expense of building a basement. However, his personal problems overcame his ability to live in the house and he sold it shortly after it was completed. I'll bet that would have been one heck of a model railroad!
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Post by mikeinsewi on Jan 21, 2016 12:01:13 GMT -8
I'm in Wisconsin, and I wouldn't have a house WITHOUT a basement. Dampness is not a problem. On a hot summer day, the basement is always a cool and comfortable 65 degrees.
Mike.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 21, 2016 12:33:33 GMT -8
We may not have basements in CA, but we also don't have winter. Oh sure..... Rub it in, rub it in! LOL (I'm in upstate NY) Ah, California is a big state. I think Lake Tahoe and area will be surprised to learn they don't experience winter............ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 12:46:36 GMT -8
The water tables are too high in CA for basements. Unless you live on a hillside, you are not likely to have a basement. One exception was about 15 years ago. About four miles west of me they were building custom homes on large lots overlooking the Santa Clarita Valley. Some guy named Mel Gibson bought two lots and built an 8,000 sq. foot house with a huge basement. Mel is a model railroader, so I am sure that was part of the reason he went through the extra expense of building a basement. However, his personal problems overcame his ability to live in the house and he sold it shortly after it was completed. I'll bet that would have been one heck of a model railroad! The water tables being too high isn't the main reason. California has, by far, the most varied geography, geology, and weather of any state so you can't make those kinds of generalizations. The land under the most populated areas (Most of the Bay Area, Los Angeles-San Bernardino, San Diego) doesn't have water table problems that affect construction. Near the beach, yes a little. There's never been much of a need or desire for basements in the developed areas of Calif. It was easier and usually cheaper to build out rather than down. During much of California's development, people moved here in large part because of land, the outdoors, the weather. During the huge migrations to Calif during the late 19th century most people (and builders) found that basements weren't necessary or wanted- the weather allowed for indoor/outdoor living almost all year. And the Spanish & Mexican settlers didn't have basements. Later generations carried on these patterns. The weather in the developed areas just doesn't require basements- no giant furnaces, no need for tornado shelter, etc. Not to say there were no basements built, maybe 15-20 percent of homes built 1880-1900 had them. Some new homes are still built with basements, mostly on hillsides where they fit the topography, but some even on flat land. |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 21, 2016 13:53:15 GMT -8
Ah yes, varied geology. While I was a geology major at California State University Sacramento, I took their California geology class. Among the places we took field trips to were Daly City south of San Francisco, where houses were slowly being lost one by one to slump. People watering their yards were literaly lubricating the soils and helping the, along with gravity, to cause the overburnen they homes were built on to slowly slide down hill near the ocean. Another feature that was interesting was the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada mountains, mostly from Tioga pass (eastern exit of Yosemit Valley) and southwards - lots of volcanic features, geothermal hot springs. One fun place was Hot Creek, where you could go in and depending on how close you were to the source, you could choose your water temperature!
As for water table, with all the pumping of ground water, I've been reading that well drillers are having to drill ever deeper so certainly in some areas it's going to be far deeper than anything affecting a basement, though as pointed out they are rare things in California. There are perched water tables of course. But water table never seeemed to be a concern - heck there are plenty of basements in Buffalo NY but when I was working there with drillers, the water table was really shallow in places.
In the Sacramento area, seems like everything was built on slabs - I saw a lot of home construction there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 14:09:21 GMT -8
Ah yes, varied geology. While I was a geology major at California State University Sacramento, I took their California geology class. Among the places we took field trips to were Daly City south of San Francisco, where houses were slowly being lost one by one to slump. People watering their yards were literaly lubricating the soils and helping the, along with gravity, to cause the overburnen they homes were built on to slowly slide down hill near the ocean. Another feature that was interesting was the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada mountains, mostly from Tioga pass (eastern exit of Yosemit Valley) and southwards - lots of volcanic features, geothermal hot springs. One fun place was Hot Creek, where you could go in and depending on how close you were to the source, you could choose your water temperature! As for water table, with all the pumping of ground water, I've been reading that well drillers are having to drill ever deeper so certainly in some areas it's going to be far deeper than anything affecting a basement, though as pointed out they are rare things in California. There are perched water tables of course. But water table never seeemed to be a concern - heck there are plenty of basements in Buffalo NY but when I was working there with drillers, the water table was really shallow in places. In the Sacramento area, seems like everything was built on slabs - I saw a lot of home construction there. I'm sitting on a small (dozen sq mi?) bit of rare igneous here in Socal. Surrounded by miles of alluvium plains and sedimentary & metamorphic mountains (very gneiss ones!). Much of SoCal west of the San Andreas fault (Transverse Ranges like the San Gabriel and Santa Monica mountains) is made up land carried across the Pacific and "scraped" off against the North American Plate as the Pacific Plate is subducted. Yeah ancient & recent cinder cones are easy to see in that part of CA. I could never remember my geologic history, too much memorization, so I switched to geography! ZZyzx in the Mojave has hot springs. Same with Death Valley, Murietta, Palm Springs area... Most homes built post 1950 or so are on a slab. Cheaper. About the same time drywall, wall-to-wall carpet, and aluminum frame windows became popular. Cheaper, and the carpet & drywall finish could hide poor workmanship. |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 21, 2016 19:18:07 GMT -8
Bs and ms in geology but now IT is putting food on the table now. It was fun for a while but all the travelling eventually got tiresome. For field camp spent six weeks gallivanting around South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana with a rock hammer, note pad, hand lense and bottle of ten percent hydrochloric acid. A summer I'll never forget!
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Post by Gary P on Jan 22, 2016 3:44:35 GMT -8
Oh sure..... Rub it in, rub it in! LOL (I'm in upstate NY) I used to live in Western New York -- everything had a basement. And a sump pump. Or two. AND the dehumidifier. I know folks with all of those, but fortunately for us at our location, no sump pump needed.  Now, snow shovels, snowblowers, snowplows.... we got! And salt, lot's of salt! |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 22, 2016 6:01:43 GMT -8
Speaking of snow... DC getting slammed later today 12 to 24" expected. Bread etc wiped off store shelves you'd think end of the world coming but really only need to hunker down 2 days probably. Silver lining = basement time w layout!  ? |
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Post by valenciajim on Jan 22, 2016 8:41:21 GMT -8
Underground ones usually need dehumidifying which also costs $# Of course CA has winter (see: Donner Party, SP rotary plows, 1938 LA flood, etc.), and some basements. Rarely in CA would you need a dehumidifier in a basement. Maybe along the coast north of San Francisco.
Well first of all I was being a smart ass, so I guess I deserved to get some smack in return! Of course, California has the most varied geography and climates of probably any state. The Sierra Nevada has some of the highest mountains in North America and can have a sever winter climate as noted with the Donner Party, etc.. However, there are no major populated areas in CA that are hit with winter snowstorms like they face in the Midwest and back east.
The last time it snowed in Los Angeles was 1947. So I guess we do have winter in the east coast sense here once a century or so. The 1938 flood was so bad because there was no flood control infrastructure at that time. Since then the LA River and other rivers have been turned into concrete catch basins that quickly divert the water to the ocean. In El Nino years, we can get a lot of rain. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley and saw how it floods. Someone made the comment that high water tables are not the reason for a lack of basements. About 35 years ago when my Mom died we had some severe geological problems with her home in the Hollywood Hills. When I spoke with the geologist who we hired to assist us in fixing the problems, he told me that much of California is prone to flooding during years of extreme rainfall and when that happens the water table increases causing basements to be problematic. About 25 years ago, we looked into building a new house and I wanted a basement for my model railroad. I was told by the architect and soils engineer that basements are not constructed in California because of the high water tables.
I am a retired CPA and I never took a geology class, but I have paid a lot of money to geologists over the years and that is what I have been consistently told.
They regularly built basements in LA until about 100 years ago. Then they built homes on a raised foundation without a basement until the mid-1950s. After that they built on slab foundations. Slab foundations are considerably cheaper, but can have issues when seismic events occur. My slab foundation cracked in several places in the 1994 Northridge earthquake.
Finally, a CA winter for most parts of the state is as severe as spring storms elsewhere. Other than in the higher elevations, such as the Sierra Nevada, CA winters are generally quite mild. If we get a winter storm and the snow level drops below 5,000 feet, the snow usually melts in a day or two. By the way last week we had highs in the low 50's and lows in the high 30s/low 40s and all the news weather casters could talk about was the extremely cold winter weather that we were experiencing. Most of you guys would laugh at that. So yes we have winter, but not on the same sense that folks do in the Midwest or elsewhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 15:03:45 GMT -8
Of course CA has winter (see: Donner Party, SP rotary plows, 1938 LA flood, etc.), and some basements. Rarely in CA would you need a dehumidifier in a basement. Maybe along the coast north of San Francisco.
Well first of all I was being a smart ass, so I guess I deserved to get some smack in return! Of course, California has the most varied geography and climates of probably any state. The Sierra Nevada has some of the highest mountains in North America and can have a sever winter climate as noted with the Donner Party, etc.. However, there are no major populated areas in CA that are hit with winter snowstorms like they face in the Midwest and back east.
The last time it snowed in Los Angeles was 1947. So I guess we do have winter in the east coast sense here once a century or so. The 1938 flood was so bad because there was no flood control infrastructure at that time. Since then the LA River and other rivers have been turned into concrete catch basins that quickly divert the water to the ocean. In El Nino years, we can get a lot of rain. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley and saw how it floods. Someone made the comment that high water tables are not the reason for a lack of basements. About 35 years ago when my Mom died we had some severe geological problems with her home in the Hollywood Hills. When I spoke with the geologist who we hired to assist us in fixing the problems, he told me that much of California is prone to flooding during years of extreme rainfall and when that happens the water table increases causing basements to be problematic. About 25 years ago, we looked into building a new house and I wanted a basement for my model railroad. I was told by the architect and soils engineer that basements are not constructed in California because of the high water tables.
I am a retired CPA and I never took a geology class, but I have paid a lot of money to geologists over the years and that is what I have been consistently told.
They regularly built basements in LA until about 100 years ago. Then they built homes on a raised foundation without a basement until the mid-1950s. After that they built on slab foundations. Slab foundations are considerably cheaper, but can have issues when seismic events occur. My slab foundation cracked in several places in the 1994 Northridge earthquake.
Finally, a CA winter for most parts of the state is as severe as spring storms elsewhere. Other than in the higher elevations, such as the Sierra Nevada, CA winters are generally quite mild. If we get a winter storm and the snow level drops below 5,000 feet, the snow usually melts in a day or two. By the way last week we had highs in the low 50's and lows in the high 30s/low 40s and all the news weather casters could talk about was the extremely cold winter weather that we were experiencing. Most of you guys would laugh at that. So yes we have winter, but not on the same sense that folks do in the Midwest or elsewhere. Like grits and frozen custard, the reason why there are few basements in California is not because they can't be built, it's because they aren't wanted. Most people here live on alluvium that drains well. The water table is usually hundreds for feet down, getting close to the surface only near the beach or upstream of a impermeable formation. The water table depths vary greatly depending on the rainfall. There are water wells, but if the water table was high enough to prevent basements (like much of Florida or other places, it would be tapped and there would be no "drought" presently. Probable 80 percent of people in metro LA live where the water table is 200 ft or deeper. You're right hillsides are prone to saturation and slippage, much of the hills near populated areas experience a lot of local erosion and movement. And there's no frost line in most of populated California, so no need to dig below it for foundations, a must in most of the US. And there are basements, even on the flatlands, just not many. They're usually dry- drier on average than those east of the Rocky Mountains where water intrusion can be a constant issue. For the price of building a basement, even an unfinished one, the typical California home buyer can get at least twice as much usable living area, aka patio, veranda, court, POOL, etc., and on the same level. You can have basements here in most places, but people choose not to. The hacienda doesn't need a basement. The Mediterranean California lifestyle has always revolved around the generally good weather that encourages minimizing the barrier between indoors and out. BBQ365. When you can wear shorts and sandals 11 months out of the year, would you rather have a 1,000 sf basement or 3,000 sf finished & furnished hardscape and landscape? Need more space? Tack on another room* or put more pavers down. Basements aren't part of the CA dream, they belong to the cold wet place they or their parents moved away from. And it's been that way since before California was part of the US. If it ain't broke, why fix it?  There was a tract nearby built in the 80s(?) that featured basements, it didn't do well, but that's an anecdote. Some expensive homes have basements for wine cellars, so it can be done. And there were the bomb shelters of the 50s. Many commercial building have basements for utilitarian reasons. Sidenote- In the deserts, far more people die by drowning than by problems from heat. One day your enjoying the never-ending sunshine, the next you're buried under tons of rock, mud, and debris. *No so easy since restrictive land use regs circa 1970s+. |
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Post by roadkill on Jan 22, 2016 17:57:10 GMT -8
This "Snowpocalypes" crap the news media is spewing cracks me up. You know what we n.e. Ohioans call what DC is gonna get? Winter . |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 18:16:44 GMT -8
This "Snowpocalypes" crap the news media is spewing cracks me up. You know what we n.e. Ohioans call what DC is gonna get? Winter . Climate is what you expect. Weather is what you get. |
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Post by atsfan on Jan 22, 2016 19:12:01 GMT -8
This "Snowpocalypes" crap the news media is spewing cracks me up. You know what we n.e. Ohioans call what DC is gonna get? Winter . Unless you live in the Sierra mountains 24+ inches of snow in a day with strong winds is not your average "winter" Even in Ohio that would get attention. |
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Post by llxlocomotives on Jan 22, 2016 22:02:12 GMT -8
Until this storm gets to the north east, the areas are not use to getting big dumps of snow. I grew up in Iowa. In the winter, snow came in November and was around until mid to late March, sometimes into April. The weather people seldom made a big deal of a few inches of snow. That happened almost every day. They were more interested in the time of day the snow would come. Talking about basements, there are a number of places in the US where they have give up on building basements. It is always water issues. Usually water table. Sometimes it is just that the area is full of springs. It is more than a little humidity. When we built our house, we went down instead of up. We have 3000 sq ft of walk out basement. Most is finished and the HVAC system takes care of the humidity. As was indicated earlier, to get the tempesture above 68 F I have to run heat in that zone. Larry www.llxlocomotives.com |
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Post by Christian on Jan 23, 2016 3:11:21 GMT -8
This "Snowpocalypes" crap the news media is spewing cracks me up. You know what we n.e. Ohioans call what DC is gonna get? Winter . You know what we Western New Yorker's (former) call what youse Ohioans get? "Spring." You know what Canadians call all this USA snow talk? "Whinging." Now that I'm retired and Down South I can just hunker down and enjoy what ever nature wants to show me. |
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Post by atsfan on Jan 23, 2016 8:33:00 GMT -8
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Post by roadkill on Jan 23, 2016 12:31:35 GMT -8
This "Snowpocalypes" crap the news media is spewing cracks me up. You know what we n.e. Ohioans call what DC is gonna get? Winter . Unless you live in the Sierra mountains 24+ inches of snow in a day with strong winds is not your average "winter" Even in Ohio that would get attention. Trust me, I know that. I've been dealing with Cleveland winters for 53 years now. 24 inches of snow ain't gonna faze me one bit. Now the winter "hurricane" of 1978? THAT got my attention. 24 inches? Bah! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Blizzard_of_1978I just tire of the hype, how every little snowfall on the East Coast is some kind of major disaster, well, it ain't. Just deal with it, people. |
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Post by roadkill on Jan 23, 2016 12:35:27 GMT -8
Yes just a minor storm. Ohio would shrug this off easily with no issues. Chardon, OH is about 40 miles due east of me. You know what they got Tueday? Twenty-nine inches of snow. Guess what? Life still goes on in Chardon. And life will go on in Disneyland on the Potomac. After the panic dies down, of course. |
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Post by atsfan on Jan 23, 2016 12:53:25 GMT -8
Yes just a minor storm. Ohio would shrug this off easily with no issues. Chardon, OH is about 40 miles due east of me. You know what they got Tueday? Twenty-nine inches of snow. Guess what? Life still goes on in Chardon. And life will go on in Disneyland on the Potomac. After the panic dies down, of course. Did you read the article? It is Georgia to New York. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jan 23, 2016 14:20:05 GMT -8
The difference is that while the lake effect states are equipped to handle multiple foot snow storms, a bunch of these places getting snowed in today are not. For example, within an hour of the first snow flakes flying past my window here in Massachusetts, a town DPW salt truck went by. It went by again a couple hours later, and our winters are nothing compared to Buffalo, Erie, et al (NYC had a rotary in Buffalo, for pete's sake). There's no way my friend in Georgia sees two passes of a salt truck in her town near Atlanta within 4 hours of the start of a snow storm. They just don't have the equipment or the people.
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Rub it in, rub it in! LOL 
(I'm in upstate NY) 
