Post by theengineshed on Jan 29, 2016 18:34:59 GMT -8
Back in the day, fantasy units were an issue IMO, if they sold well, manufacturers really didn't have a reason to invest in new tooling, different phases, etc.
We've been spoiled though, I suspect that threat has receded.
(BTW that is a loaded topic, as it seems from past topics on these very forums that many of the people on these forums are adamantly opposed to fantasy units...or is that only until it's a big Century??? Help me figure that one out, please, because right now I'm just not seeing any consistency there).
My wallet is safe; I view fantasy schemes as little more than a ploy to drum up a few more sales from a product with very limited appeal. How many "correct" C430s and C415s and C636s could they possibly expect to sell? Its a niche market. Gotta pay for the R&D and tooling somehow I suppose.
I am the poster child for falling math scores in America.
John, the EL C425s did have a different Leasser than the C424s. EL stopped making payments on them sometime after mid 75. Trains had an insert "will these Locomotives default?". and went on to say they would be the 1st Class One units since the 30s to default. the C425s were never taken out of service on EL,but EL did stop making the Main Payments at least. they were rounded up at Marion Ohio during Feb/March 76 and shopped.then they were sent west to BCR by the Leasee, who possibly was XTRA,but will have to check that,as it was a firm not noted for leasing locos. seem to recall they were All off EL before April 1st. there were some pics of them on BN going to BCR in X2200 South , and possibly other mags at the time,but the CR News over shadowed them. Spikre
OK, interesting question, and I have to chime in here:
It is well documented that Santa Fe tried both the Alco C-430 and C-636 Demonstrators, and in the case of the one set of demonstrators, they flat-out failed and broke down on half or more of the Chicago to Los Angeles runs on which Santa Fe tried them. So they got them off the property...quickly. They may also have tried the C-628 Demos, as well.
In the case of the other fantasy schemes, there is good precedent for most excepting maybe UP (who hated their C-630's and the RS-27's and was looking to get rid of them by the time the C-636 came around).
So having read a lot of the Alco Century series history, Santa Fe is about the one road that I can't picture ever buying Centuries, as much as I would have liked that (My Dad even repainted a Mantua-Tyco C-430 from red/silver to blue and yellow warbonnet for me).
But hey, if enough folks ask Lee, he might do them? It won't hurt anyone to call and ask.
Alco actually proposed a COWL BODY C636 to the Santa Fe! RMC had drawings of the still-born unit sometime back in the early Seventies.
The first C-636 cowl proposal was the 636P of 1967. There is a partial cutaway plan for it in the late Steinbrenner's book. From the plan I made this:
This is in N-Scale. In another 50 years, when I finish my other Alco projects, I may have a crack at the C-636F. This is getting a little off topic, but it's certainly a fantasy C-636!
I was at English's Train Store today and did ask Rich, the store sales manager, who assists with Bowser new product development as his schedule allows, about the possibility of NYSW C-636's and/or Santa Fe C-636's.
Rich indicated that they did not believe the sales potential was there for NYSW (Susquehanna) units or for Santa Fe, and they have no plans at the present time to offer either NYSW or Santa Fe C-636's in any future runs.
I was at English's Train Store today and did ask Rich, the store sales manager, who assists with Bowser new product development as his schedule allows, about the possibility of NYSW C-636's and/or Santa Fe C-636's.
Rich indicated that they did not believe the sales potential was there for NYSW (Susquehanna) units or for Santa Fe, and they have no plans at the present time to offer either NYSW or Santa Fe C-636's in any future runs.
Respectfully submitted--
John
It is their money. But ATSF would outsell PRR '1960's waiting for bankruptcy dip paint job' by many units.
I'm reporting what they said when asked a question, and that is all. I have no (zero) authority to speak on anyone's behalf. The following are my own personal opinions only:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the Penn Central C-636's originally prepared for shipping with the PRR Keystones applied, and then subsequently changed to Penn Central logos? That's also how they ended up with a very early, corners very squared off (some complained on these forums the logo was wrong when in fact it was correct) mating worms logo.
Sorry atsfan, but Bowser retains a more loyal PRR customer following, by far, than any Santa Fe fans. As a once upon a time Santa Fe fan who happens to now live close to the former PRR Middle Division mainline, trust me--there are limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser, very limited at least when compared to the legions of SPF's (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks) who still remain.
I'm reporting what they said when asked a question, and that is all. I have no (zero) authority to speak on anyone's behalf. The following are my own personal opinions only:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the Penn Central C-636's originally prepared for shipping with the PRR Keystones applied, and then subsequently changed to Penn Central logos? That's also how they ended up with a very early, corners very squared off (some complained on these forums the logo was wrong when in fact it was correct) mating worms logo.
Sorry atsfan, but Bowser retains a more loyal PRR customer following, by far, than any Santa Fe fans. As a once upon a time Santa Fe fan who happens to now live close to the former PRR Middle Division mainline, trust me--there are limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser, very limited at least when compared to the legions of SPF's (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks) who still remain.
John, I have to agree with Lee and Rich's assessment. I just looked at my engines, and the only Western Bowser engines I own are a CB&Q F3 pair, and a lone SP&S C636. Everything else is Conrail and predecessors.
I'm reporting what they said when asked a question, and that is all. I have no (zero) authority to speak on anyone's behalf. The following are my own personal opinions only:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the Penn Central C-636's originally prepared for shipping with the PRR Keystones applied, and then subsequently changed to Penn Central logos? That's also how they ended up with a very early, corners very squared off (some complained on these forums the logo was wrong when in fact it was correct) mating worms logo.
Sorry atsfan, but Bowser retains a more loyal PRR customer following, by far, than any Santa Fe fans. As a once upon a time Santa Fe fan who happens to now live close to the former PRR Middle Division mainline, trust me--there are limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser, very limited at least when compared to the legions of SPF's (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks) who still remain.
Chicken and Egg? Limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser. What does Bowser make for the Santa Fe? I don't know of anything.
I do know if Bowser would mod their SD40-2 for the ATSF, it would sell extremely well. Just saying.
I also think that the days of "legions" of SPF's are fading. You need to be 60 years old to remember PRR in anything like its glory. Nothing lasts forever. Even ATSF has been gone 20 years this year. PRR has been gone for two generations. Not sure where you live on the old Middle Division (LOVE that railroad BTW even today!) but that might skew the local preference for the old PRR?
I'm looking forward to the eventual spinoff from this thread... "Modelers of Which Railroad Are Most Likely to Buy Foobies of Their Road: PRR or ATSF?".
I am the poster child for falling math scores in America.
I'm looking forward to the eventual spinoff from this thread... "Modelers of Which Railroad Are Most Likely to Buy Foobies of Their Road: PRR or ATSF?".
Chicken and Egg? Limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser. What does Bowser make for the Santa Fe? I don't know of anything.
Let's see: A correct for Santa Fe (formerly Stewart) 70 ton open hopper that has only ever been done a handful of production runs (other roadnames apparently sold better than that), some small diesel switchers just recently, the recently upgraded U25B, oh, and of course the former Stewart F Units.
Bowser sells the former Stewart F units, but when they offered the Santa Fe F-9 in the correct, but uncommon, blue and yellow freight warbonnet a couple years ago, which would be hot looking even if less detailed than Genesis, virtually nobody pre-ordered them, and they were subsequently cancelled. They were pretty well-advertised in the magazines, but that wasn't enough. Perhaps that is the "Athearn Effect" since they have the blue/yellow warbonnet "F-7" in their cheap line.
Also, I have personally met a number of people modeling PRR who were not even born yet when PRR ceased to exist. Yet it seems many Santa Fe fans are perfectly happy to be BNSF...
Chicken and Egg? Limited Santa Fe people who buy anything Bowser. What does Bowser make for the Santa Fe? I don't know of anything.
Let's see: A correct for Santa Fe (formerly Stewart) 70 ton open hopper that has only ever been done a handful of production runs (other roadnames apparently sold better than that), some small diesel switchers just recently, the recently upgraded U25B, oh, and of course the former Stewart F Units.
Bowser sells the former Stewart F units, but when they offered the Santa Fe F-9 in the correct, but uncommon, blue and yellow freight warbonnet a couple years ago, which would be hot looking even if less detailed than Genesis, virtually nobody pre-ordered them, and they were subsequently cancelled. They were pretty well-advertised in the magazines, but that wasn't enough. Perhaps that is the "Athearn Effect" since they have the blue/yellow warbonnet "F-7" in their cheap line.
Also, I have personally met a number of people modeling PRR who were not even born yet when PRR ceased to exist. Yet it seems many Santa Fe fans are perfectly happy to be BNSF...
The Stewart F units are far down in the order of people buying F units. Especially ATSF Modelers, since Athearn produced just amazing F3s and F7s (the 7s with the proper metal sides). So yes, nobody pre orders them. They are old tooling, not cheap, and far exceeded by Genesis, and slightly less so by Walthers, MTH, and Intermountain.
If that is why Bowser decides ATSF doesn't sell, then they are missing out on $$$$$.
I am glad to see Bowser making the C636 in the fantasy schemes like they did the C430s in Rock Island. I hope when they do another run of C630s, that they do a Chessis one. The C&O's C630s lasted until 1974 and could have been repainted. I know that I'd buy a pair.
That is why I've always had trouble sticking to one era or even railroad.
You can choose to keep your railroad and time period "pure" or you can cheat...most of us cheat to some extent...lol
John
I have just worked too hard to try to keep everything accurate to my time period which is set in the late summer of 1957. Can't cheat. It would be nice to have, but I'm sure it isn't available lettered for the railroad I already have my other Alcos lettered for.
The EL paint scheme would look very nice on their C415 (as a fantasy) when it comes out. For some reason, in general, I like the EL paint on switchers more than road diesels. I hope Bowser changes their mind and makes the T6 and S6 switcher too, although it will be a long wait since Bowser has the c415 and the RS3s in the planning stage.
Last Edit: Feb 2, 2016 18:07:29 GMT -8 by alcoc430
Hello Group, Not to hijack the thread, but who makes Alco style wheel slip detectors and speed cables with the unique cone shaped mounts. I have several Bowser six axle Alcos and want to add those details. Thanks, Mark
Hello Group, Not to hijack the thread, but who makes Alco style wheel slip detectors and speed cables with the unique cone shaped mounts. I have several Bowser six axle Alcos and want to add those details. Thanks, Mark
Detail Associates 2808 or Details West Part 350. Might have to make the cable yourself for the DW part.