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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 28, 2016 15:42:21 GMT -8
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Post by GP40P-2 on Jan 28, 2016 15:47:55 GMT -8
Nice!! A second chance at the first run units.
For the fantasy schemes, I am a bit surprised that they skipped doing an SP with a switcher number - where they would have quickly ended up if SP had bought any.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 28, 2016 16:13:03 GMT -8
No fantasy ATSF ?!
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 28, 2016 16:15:41 GMT -8
Would look nice in the blue pinstripe scheme. |
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Post by eh49 on Jan 28, 2016 16:28:05 GMT -8
Well, the PRR units were almost.
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Post by PennCentral on Jan 28, 2016 16:51:30 GMT -8
DELAWARE & HUDSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah I know I shouldn't be this excited about a fantasy scheme but the D&H lightning stripe is one of the best schemes ever. Yep, I'm gonna get some of these.
Jason
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Post by PennCentral on Jan 28, 2016 17:00:50 GMT -8
Ok, my next thought is maybe they'll do Allegheny Midland C636's on a future run of fantasy C636's. And C430's too.
I wish the Intermountain SD40-2 wasn't so mehhhhh.....I would have ordered the V&O and AM units but.....ugh.
Jason
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Post by jaygee on Jan 28, 2016 19:50:34 GMT -8
Will spring for the PRR, which I was going to do anyway. Will mate with my R/H U25C and Kato SD45....plus two Kato SD40 snappers on the rear !
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 28, 2016 20:56:25 GMT -8
OK, interesting question, and I have to chime in here: It is well documented that Santa Fe tried both the Alco C-430 and C-636 Demonstrators, and in the case of the one set of demonstrators, they flat-out failed and broke down on half or more of the Chicago to Los Angeles runs on which Santa Fe tried them. So they got them off the property...quickly. They may also have tried the C-628 Demos, as well. In the case of the other fantasy schemes, there is good precedent for most excepting maybe UP (who hated their C-630's and the RS-27's and was looking to get rid of them by the time the C-636 came around). So having read a lot of the Alco Century series history, Santa Fe is about the one road that I can't picture ever buying Centuries, as much as I would have liked that (My Dad even repainted a Mantua-Tyco C-430 from red/silver to blue and yellow warbonnet for me). But hey, if enough folks ask Lee, he might do them? It won't hurt anyone to call and ask. |
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Post by PennCentral on Jan 28, 2016 21:16:19 GMT -8
I know you've been around long enough to know that Alco-love has no boundaries or concerns about reality. What you say about the performance of Alcos on the UP and Santa Fe may well be true but Alco fans DON'T CARE. I KNOW that the D&H had a tough time with the Tri-mounts on the C-628s and the all-Alco all the time D&H walked away and went with U30Cs in 1967, not C-630s or C-636s even though the Hi-Ad truck was available and they tested the C-636s. I KNOW that and I'm still getting in line for D&H C-636s. I would not be surprised if there were people that love the Santa Fe and love big Alcos enough to buy fantasy C-636s in blue bonnet or book ends.
Jason
Alternate Reality, Indiana
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Post by atsfan on Jan 29, 2016 0:36:48 GMT -8
OK, interesting question, and I have to chime in here: It is well documented that Santa Fe tried both the Alco C-430 and C-636 Demonstrators, and in the case of the one set of demonstrators, they flat-out failed and broke down on half or more of the Chicago to Los Angeles runs on which Santa Fe tried them. So they got them off the property...quickly. They may also have tried the C-628 Demos, as well. In the case of the other fantasy schemes, there is good precedent for most excepting maybe UP (who hated their C-630's and the RS-27's and was looking to get rid of them by the time the C-636 came around). So having read a lot of the Alco Century series history, Santa Fe is about the one road that I can't picture ever buying Centuries, as much as I would have liked that (My Dad even repainted a Mantua-Tyco C-430 from red/silver to blue and yellow warbonnet for me). But hey, if enough folks ask Lee, he might do them? It won't hurt anyone to call and ask. Its a fantasy. You might as well make it about a swimsuit model versus Marthal at the local Wal Mart. |
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 6:02:55 GMT -8
Yes, I get it--fantasy--totally understood.
But Lee picks the roadnames based upon his ability to sell his minimum production requirement of engines in that paint scheme.
Also, just a couple years ago, Lee offered the Santa Fe F-9 in blue and yellow freight warbonnet paint...a relatively rare prototype engine I actually wanted very much even in the less detailed Stewart line...they had to cancel it because there were very low two digit pre-orders. Athearn had re-introduced their cheap F-7 in that paint at about the same time.
I can't speak for them to say what they will or won't do; I have absolutely no idea, and they usually don't ask my opinion, but I can say there are seemingly more rabid Alco/MLW fans representing some of the other roadnames they offered, such that they must be pretty confident they can get the sales. LV, D&H, PRR, they know they'll positively kill it with sales of those.
Santa Fe? not so much. I've met a lot of Santa Fe fans that, grudgingly perhaps accepting PA's, hate all other Alcos. If I had a dime for every time a Santa Fe fan told me "but we were mainly an EMD-road" (until the '70's) I'd be a rich man. (I am a former member of the SFRHMS--most of them hate Alcos).
My 2c. YMMV.
John
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Post by atsfan on Jan 29, 2016 6:10:13 GMT -8
Yes, I get it--fantasy--totally understood. But Lee picks the roadnames based upon his ability to sell his minimum production requirement of engines in that paint scheme. Also, just a couple years ago, Lee offered the Santa Fe F-9 in blue and yellow freight warbonnet paint...a relatively rare prototype engine I actually wanted very much even in the less detailed Stewart line...they had to cancel it because there were very low two digit pre-orders. Athearn had re-introduced their cheap F-7 in that paint at about the same time. I can't speak for them to say what they will or won't do; I have absolutely no idea, and they usually don't ask my opinion, but I can say there are seemingly more rabid Alco/MLW fans representing some of the other roadnames they offered, such that they must be pretty confident they can get the sales. LV, D&H, PRR, they know they'll positively kill it with sales of those. Santa Fe? not so much. I've met a lot of Santa Fe fans that, grudgingly perhaps accepting PA's, hate all other Alcos. If I had a dime for every time a Santa Fe fan told me "but we were mainly an EMD-road" (until the '70's) I'd be a rich man. (I am a former member of the SFRHMS--most of them hate Alcos). My 2c. YMMV. John The most awesome fantasy scheme would be the shiny chrome Tyco silver and red paint job from the 70s. i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODMzWDExODc=/z/~ssAAOSwDNdV305l/$_35.JPGWho wouldn't want one of those !? |
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 6:11:58 GMT -8
I all too vividly remember seeing them in the store.
I was buying the IC/ICG ones then...slightly closer to reality, at least.
lol
John
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Post by Chet on Jan 29, 2016 6:16:37 GMT -8
Woe is me! I am a big Alco fan and always liked the big chunky look of the 636, but it is too modern for he time period I am modeling.
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Post by peoriaman on Jan 29, 2016 6:36:07 GMT -8
I wonder how long before we see some fantasy C430s...
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 6:36:32 GMT -8
That is why I've always had trouble sticking to one era or even railroad.
You can choose to keep your railroad and time period "pure" or you can cheat...most of us cheat to some extent...lol
John
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 6:37:12 GMT -8
I wonder how long before we see some fantasy C430s... They're out on the street now to be purchased...perhaps you missed the announcement? Most of them were engines for which Alco actually had either an order that was cancelled, or had provided a sales proposal to the railroad outlining the costs and cost savings of placing an order for C430's. |
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Post by peoriaman on Jan 29, 2016 7:35:09 GMT -8
They're out on the street now to be purchased...perhaps you missed the announcement? I did, evidently. That was quick! |
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Post by Spikre on Jan 29, 2016 10:10:12 GMT -8
 Mr Lee E., the EL units should be either in the 34xxxs,or 37xxxs if going by the earlier split of the C424s and C425s. EL likely would have filled up the 36xxxs with SD45-2s if life would have been kinder to EL. it is something to consider,and Thanks for making EL !! Spikre 
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Post by Spikre on Jan 29, 2016 10:17:17 GMT -8
 John, Mr Lee can get around the Santa Fe "Problem" by making the CF636 A and B that did have plans drawn up for. Alco must have been trying to get Santa Fe to trade back the Alligator fleet for the Cowl units. too bad it wasn't on a 1 for 1 basis,as the 12 RSD-7s could have been included also. am sure after "Teething" problems that Santa Fe would have gotten excellent service from a CF636 fleet. too bad it never happened. Spikre 
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 29, 2016 10:28:30 GMT -8
Mr Lee E., the EL units should be either in the 34xxxs,or 37xxxs if going by the earlier split of the C424s and C425s. EL likely would have filled up the 36xxxs with SD45-2s if life would have been kinder to EL. it is something to consider,and Thanks for making EL !! Spikre Interesting that EL never bought ALCo C-C power. Were they unhappy with the C424s/C425s, or were they warned-off by LV and/or D&H experiences with the C628s? |
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Post by Spikre on Jan 29, 2016 10:48:39 GMT -8
?? Ferro Kid, not really sure,but this was the time that DERECO took over EL, and Parent N&W had also stopped buying Alcos,as did D&H. one theory is that RRs were OK with Worthington owning Alco,but when Studebaker merged with Worthington most roads read the Tea Leaves to mean that Alco was about as dead as Studebaker Cars and Trucks. but in Canada where MLW was still second to GMDD it was decided to move all Alco drawings and tech stuff up there and MLW-Worthington ran until about 74/75 when BBD bought into them,then fully bought out Worthington soon after. Question: if D&H U23Bs were the 1st of that model,how could they be Phase-2 units? shouldn't they have been Phase-1 units ? C-628s: D&H C628s ran on EL a bit before the Bankruptcy,618{?}spent a lot of time on EL in Ohio. C424/425 units: pics show them in mainline service until CR day,so EL ran them as regular power but like the GP35s and U25Bs some did get yard and local assignments also. also the Motive Power man,Mr Carlson that ordered the C424s at least,was possibly retired after Jack Fishwick came to Cleveland ? Spikre  |
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 13:14:07 GMT -8
Well, some railroads bought 4-axle power up to a point in time, and then rapidly saw the advantages of 6-axle power and made the switch to that...but then in a few short years saw 20-cylinder engines rack up tremendous fuel costs...resulting in huge purchases of SD40-2's.
EL liked the C424/C425 fleet they had and shopped, or at least painted, several units just prior to Conrail. Then due to trust/leasing arrangements, those engines ended up elsewhere, not on Conrail.
John
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Post by Spikre on Jan 29, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -8
 John, the EL C424s went to CR,then the GE Hornell rebuild program,but maybe not all of them ? think the EL and Reading C424s were traded to GE. meanwhile rite before CR day the EL C425s were sent to BCR. they went in groups and worked their way west over BN. SD45: it could be said that EL went head over heals with the 45s,as did Parent N&W. D&H couldn't keep the 800s running,so they were swapped to EL. EL numbered the 1st shopped one 3803,but then covered up the 3. they sure caused confusion when 1st encountered by many, is EL renumbering the 45s to 800s ? what will the 800 E8s become ? but then it was found out it was just the ex-D&H 45s in the 800s. Spikre
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cp9002
Junior Member
Posts: 85 
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Post by cp9002 on Jan 29, 2016 15:18:55 GMT -8
I'll buy two of the D&H engines and one EL engine.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 29, 2016 16:58:27 GMT -8
I think they missed the most obvious fantasy scheme. Susquehanna yellow jacket, either the early, the late or both versions. Supposedly Walter Rich was all set to buy some ex-Conrail units from Naporano for stack train power but CSX/Chessie nixed that, wanting "more reliable" locomotives, which is why they ended up with SD45s. And of course years later they ended up leasing some ex-Cartier units. It's certainly the most justifiable fantasy I know of.
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 17:50:56 GMT -8
Yes, I remember reading what you said (in Railpace) about more Centuries for NYSW back in the day...CR even held onto some for awhile, but never found a buyer.
I will be in Montoursville tomorrow (my son gets pitching lessons from a former pro baseball player, not the obvious one some might think of, but another former pro who is much less famous). I will be too late in the afternoon to possibly catch Lee at the store, but I can ask the store sales manager, Rich, about the Susquehanna units, if they considered them, and if in the future they'd consider more fantasy units like the Susquehanna, or Santa Fe.
(BTW that is a loaded topic, as it seems from past topics on these very forums that many of the people on these forums are adamantly opposed to fantasy units...or is that only until it's a big Century??? Help me figure that one out, please, because right now I'm just not seeing any consistency there).
Since they've already made an official announcement, nothing I can possibly say would result in any changes for the next run--but perhaps they'd add NYSW at a later date, as that is indeed a very plausible one--if the public asks for it.
I can ask nicely and see what they say.
Best Regards--
John
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 29, 2016 17:55:29 GMT -8
Spikre--
I thought I read that the reason some of the EL C425's went directly to BCR was due to the financing arrangements being different than the C424's, and not that Conrail didn't want them (as at the beginning CR was short of operable motive power everywhere).
John
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Post by atsfan on Jan 29, 2016 18:03:46 GMT -8
Yes, I remember reading what you said (in Railpace) about more Centuries for NYSW back in the day...CR even held onto some for awhile, but never found a buyer. I will be in Montoursville tomorrow (my son gets pitching lessons from a former pro baseball player, not the obvious one some might think of, but another former pro who is much less famous). I will be too late in the afternoon to possibly catch Lee at the store, but I can ask the store sales manager, Rich, about the Susquehanna units, if they considered them, and if in the future they'd consider more fantasy units like the Susquehanna, or Santa Fe. (BTW that is a loaded topic, as it seems from past topics on these very forums that many of the people on these forums are adamantly opposed to fantasy units...or is that only until it's a big Century??? Help me figure that one out, please, because right now I'm just not seeing any consistency there). Since they've already made an official announcement, nothing I can possibly say would result in any changes for the next run--but perhaps they'd add NYSW at a later date, as that is indeed a very plausible one--if the public asks for it. I can ask nicely and see what they say. Best Regards-- John There is a small but very vocal anti fantasy unit group here. Not " many" of the people here. Most people don't care or enjoy them. My guess is if these sell, they will do more fantasy units regardless of those who are against them. It also matters what manufacturer produces the units as to the level of vocalness. |
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