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Post by atsfan on Aug 21, 2012 17:34:24 GMT -8
It is getting difficult to track what is coming out NS heritage unitwise. We have an email from MTH saying they will do the SD70ACe's. We have IM saying will do their GEVO's, retooled. We have Athearn announcing their SD70ACe's. And finally we have Athearn going cheap and fast. They announced the GEVO schemes on their old Blue Box AC4400W  Come on man! At $140 they aren't cheap. Meanwhile Athearn continues to sit on the old Tower 55 GEVO shell and tooling which was very nice (in need of a better drive and DCC) for years. www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=AC4400+Heritage&NYA=TrueCome on man ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 17:41:42 GMT -8
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Post by roadkill on Aug 21, 2012 17:47:57 GMT -8
Street price on the Intermountain's should be around $150 (non-sound), and $120 for the incorrect Athearn... who do you thinks gonna win that battle?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 17:58:08 GMT -8
Don't know...it may depend on who gets their stuff to market first...accurate or not.
The Genesis GEVO's were what I was referring to in the link. Maybe they'll do NS heritage schemes later in the next year?
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Post by nw611 on Aug 22, 2012 1:05:30 GMT -8
Athearn has not decided yet on retooling the T55 GEVO to represent NS Heritage locos. Athearn anticipated that will show painted samples of UP, BNSF and CP GEVOs by the end of 2012. The same road names that Tower 55 made in 2005/2006 !!!! Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by Brakie on Aug 22, 2012 1:31:27 GMT -8
Street price on the Intermountain's should be around $150 (non-sound), and $120 for the incorrect Athearn... who do you thinks gonna win that battle? Especially when the majority of the modelers doesn't know the difference between the newer GEs... |
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Post by nw611 on Aug 22, 2012 3:25:46 GMT -8
Larry, if you are convinced that the majority of the modelers doesn't know the difference, why both Athearn and Intermountain are in the process of modifying their tooling to make correct NS Heritage locomotives? I hope that the fake Athearn RTR AC4400s will not sell. I am not in US modeling, but I'll certainly buy a Genesis CofG ACe in tuxedo paint scheme and an IM Southern ES44AC in green/aluminum. Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by nw611 on Aug 22, 2012 3:36:53 GMT -8
Correction: I'll but a S&A Genesis ACe in tuxedo. Raffaele
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 3:38:00 GMT -8
Athearn has not decided yet on retooling the T55 GEVO to represent NS Heritage locos. Athearn anticipated that will show painted samples of UP, BNSF and CP GEVOs by the end of 2012. The same road names that Tower 55 made in 2005/2006 !!!! Ciao. Raffaele Ok...Then perhaps it will be via demand for them. If I were a modern modeler...I'd want my SD70ACE and GEVO units to run together...and look like they belong together. Will the Intermountain have all the underframe detailing that Athearn has been putting on it's Genesis locos lately? |
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Post by calzephyr on Aug 22, 2012 5:44:57 GMT -8
Athearn has not decided yet on retooling the T55 GEVO to represent NS Heritage locos. Athearn anticipated that will show painted samples of UP, BNSF and CP GEVOs by the end of 2012. The same road names that Tower 55 made in 2005/2006 !!!! Ciao. Raffaele Ok...Then perhaps it will be via demand for them. If I were a modern modeler...I'd want my SD70ACE and GEVO units to run together...and look like they belong together. Will the Intermountain have all the underframe detailing that Athearn has been putting on it's Genesis locos lately? The Intermountain probably will not have the underframe detail that the Genesis models have included, but the units should have the body detail to look correct if they do the details they talked about. If the Genesis Gevo is completed later on, it should be very nice indeed if the underframe is detailed like the SD70Ace. I don't expect that much underfram detail on the Gevo since the underframe is not as visable as the SD70Ace. |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 22, 2012 8:03:27 GMT -8
Especially when the majority of the modelers doesn't know the difference between the newer GEs... Raises hand! I am officially an old fart and my eye's glaze over when people mention any of these new fangled diesel names from the post wide cab era. Ugly ugly UGLY! ok, got that off my chest. blah! |
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Post by Brakie on Aug 22, 2012 9:00:16 GMT -8
Larry, if you are convinced that the majority of the modelers doesn't know the difference, why both Athearn and Intermountain are in the process of modifying their tooling to make correct NS Heritage locomotives? I hope that the fake Athearn RTR AC4400s will not sell. I am not in US modeling, but I'll certainly buy a Genesis CofG ACe in tuxedo paint scheme and an IM Southern ES44AC in green/aluminum. Ciao. Raffaele It doesn't take a college degree to understand a lot of modelers know very little about today's look a like GEs,EMDs or even railroads in general.. As far as IM there going after the advance modeler whereas Athearn is going for the majority. It will sell since the Athearns will be available around $99.-110.00. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 9:19:55 GMT -8
It doesn't take a college degree to understand a lot of modelers know very little about today's.....railroads in general.. That statement doesn't make any sense. People that are beyond the train set around the Christmas tree phase in model railroading know something about railroads....or they wouldn't be playing with toy trains. As far as IM there going after the advance modeler whereas Athearn is going for the majority. Bull feathers......to a point  Intermountain already has a GEVO that with a few tweaks is Heritage paint ready. Athearn on the other hand would have been putting Heritage paint on their GEVO if it had been closer to production and modified to current GEVO body. The only reason Athearn is using the stand in model is its the closest thing they've got that is paint ready and they want to turn a fast buck. Sure some people are going to buy the Athearn model simply for the pretty paint and place it on a shelf. Others will buy it because its slightly less expensive than the Intermountain model. Athearn isn't doing their model to appeal the "majority". It will sell since the Athearns will be available around $99.-110.00. Au contraire......The Athearn is $140.00 MSRP and under the new reduced dealer discount it will be about $120 at an M.B. Klein. The reduced discount is REALLY going to be felt on the SD70Ace Heritage units.... |
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Post by atsfan on Aug 22, 2012 9:27:48 GMT -8
Not until at least 2013 second half even if they were announced today. |
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Post by atsfan on Aug 22, 2012 9:28:16 GMT -8
Street price on the Intermountain's should be around $150 (non-sound), and $120 for the incorrect Athearn... who do you thinks gonna win that battle? I would bet Intermountain. |
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Post by atsfan on Aug 22, 2012 9:30:12 GMT -8
Larry, if you are convinced that the majority of the modelers doesn't know the difference, why both Athearn and Intermountain are in the process of modifying their tooling to make correct NS Heritage locomotives? I hope that the fake Athearn RTR AC4400s will not sell. I am not in US modeling, but I'll certainly buy a Genesis CofG ACe in tuxedo paint scheme and an IM Southern ES44AC in green/aluminum. Ciao. Raffaele It doesn't take a college degree to understand a lot of modelers know very little about today's look a like GEs,EMDs or even railroads in general.. As far as IM there going after the advance modeler whereas Athearn is going for the majority. It will sell since the Athearns will be available around $99.-110.00. I would say the majority of modelers plunking down more than $100 on an HO engine in 2012 know a real model from a "fantasy" model. The best price you will see on the Athearn is $120 at a steep discount store. Athearn cut their discount so the ACTUAL price paid will be higher if you are used to discounts. |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 22, 2012 10:13:45 GMT -8
Don't forget the Intermountain Gevo's come with a decoder.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 22, 2012 11:38:11 GMT -8
It doesn't take a college degree to understand a lot of modelers know very little about today's.....railroads in general.. That statement doesn't make any sense. People that are beyond the train set around the Christmas tree phase in model railroading know something about railroads....or they wouldn't be playing with toy trains. Bull feathers......to a point Intermountain already has a GEVO that with a few tweaks is Heritage paint ready. Athearn on the other hand would have been putting Heritage paint on their GEVO if it had been closer to production and modified to current GEVO body. The only reason Athearn is using the stand in model is its the closest thing they've got that is paint ready and they want to turn a fast buck. Sure some people are going to buy the Athearn model simply for the pretty paint and place it on a shelf. Others will buy it because its slightly less expensive than the Intermountain model. Athearn isn't doing their model to appeal the "majority". It will sell since the Athearns will be available around $99.-110.00. Au contraire......The Athearn is $140.00 MSRP and under the new reduced dealer discount it will be about $120 at an M.B. Klein. The reduced discount is REALLY going to be felt on the SD70Ace Heritage units.... I been around various clubs and notice the majority doesn't know all that much since they're not all that keen on todays railroads. Apparently you haven't notice the model type under the number on the cab..If real railroaders are having problems identifying these engines..What more can I say modelers and some railfans? I also supect the $99-110.00 range for these models. |
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Post by nw611 on Aug 22, 2012 12:16:21 GMT -8
Larry, I think that the mission of expert modelers should also be informing those who are not expert about models' correctness. That's why I often ask Dave (Drolsen) if a certain freight car is correct for the road names and paint schemes offered. I live in Rome, Italy and a member of my club asked me if PRR Centipedes did run in single units, because he could not afford a couple of them. I convinced him to buy a SAL Centipede, telling him that they could run in single units and that they lasted longer than PRR units. Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by atsfan on Aug 22, 2012 15:43:28 GMT -8
[quote author=peddler board=hoforum thread=443 post=5501 I also supect the $99-110.00 range for these models.[/quote]
Hmmmm. Athearn has lowered the discount to dealers. I think to 20% off MSRP. Thus on a $140 loco that means dealer cost is $112.
Even if 30% that is $98 dealer cost. So to sell for that price you quote will not mean much profit for the dealer?
Athearn has "not raised prices" but has cut the discount. Full MSRP shops will do what? Eat the delta? Sell above MSRP?
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Post by Brakie on Aug 23, 2012 2:04:28 GMT -8
Even if 30% that is $98 dealer cost. So to sell for that price you quote will not mean much profit for the dealer?
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Are you allowing for bulk and cash payment discounts?
Then there's the left overs that didn't sell-Klien and Toy Train Heaven has super sales.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 23, 2012 2:22:20 GMT -8
Larry, I think that the mission of expert modelers should also be informing those who are not expert about models' correctness. That's why I often ask Dave (Drolsen) if a certain freight car is correct for the road names and paint schemes offered. I live in Rome, Italy and a member of my club asked me if PRR Centipedes did run in single units, because he could not afford a couple of them. I convinced him to buy a SAL Centipede, telling him that they could run in single units and that they lasted longer than PRR units. Ciao. Raffaele I agree but,that's a two way street and a modeler will need the desire to learn. However.. A lot of modelers use these old and worn cries of "its just a hobby" or "its good enough for me" or "I'm not a rivet counter". Of course my favorite was "who cares?" I received after casually (casually mind you) mentioning the fact a car was incorrect for the C&O. |
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Post by valenciajim on Aug 23, 2012 15:53:34 GMT -8
Not sure how tightly Athearn will control the production numbers. Hopefully those who want the foobies can just wait a few months until Horizon has excess inventory of these puppies and they will blow them out on their website like they are doing with the Veranda Turbines.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 23, 2012 16:07:19 GMT -8
Not sure how tightly Athearn will control the production numbers. Hopefully those who want the foobies can just wait a few months until Horizon has excess inventory of these puppies and they will blow them out on their website like they are doing with the Veranda Turbines. That might be a long shot since they could sell out with in days unlike the Veranda Turbines which is a one railroad locomotive and the heritage locomotives can be seen just about everywhere... Also.. Selling out depends on number produce and how many grabs them during the first release feeding frenzy. I'll hate to set the odds either way.. ;D |
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