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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 8:28:14 GMT -8
It's easy to be blase about the risks posed by chemicals that seem common around us. The problem is that humans vary in how different stuff affects us. You can choose to roll the dice, believing in your own invulnerability. Teenagers do that all the time, that's why the toll of things like car accidents and death from alcohol poisoning are so high for them. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. But if you have a family, do you really want to find out your kid's or significant other's genes are not the same as yours in terms of their ability to withstand such systemic insults? Yeah, some folks still don't insist their kids where seatbelts. I'll admit I survived that era, by good luck. How lucky are you feeling?  Because you're talking luck, not wisdom if you blatantly disregard product warnings.  |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Feb 4, 2016 8:30:02 GMT -8
omaharoad,
Wearing a mask while painting once a month is not equal to wearing a helmet in a car. A mask is cheap (less than the cost of a freight car, these days), easy to use, and keeps harmful chemicals (that are present) from your lungs immediately. A helmet is not cheap, would be a pain to use every time you drive, and only protects you if you actually have an accident (which hopefully never happens).
Wearing a mask while painting is smart. Wearing a seatbelt is smart. Wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is smart. None of these things are safety overkill.
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 4, 2016 8:37:17 GMT -8
I have to ask, how many spouses/wives use a facemask or respirator when applying nail polish or remover every week? I'd like to think repeated exposure to the chemicals in that over a long period of time (especially in an enclosed un-ventilated space like a bathroom or bedroom where it's usually applied) is much more damaging then the occasional painting without a mask/respirator.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 9:02:36 GMT -8
omaharoad, Wearing a mask while painting once a month is not equal to wearing a helmet in a car. A mask is cheap (less than the cost of a freight car, these days), easy to use, and keeps harmful chemicals (that are present) from your lungs immediately. A helmet is not cheap, would be a pain to use every time you drive, and only protects you if you actually have an accident (which hopefully never happens). Wearing a mask while painting is smart. Wearing a seatbelt is smart. Wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is smart. None of these things are safety overkill. He didnt say dont wear a mask. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 9:04:35 GMT -8
I have to ask, how many spouses/wives use a facemask or respirator when applying nail polish or remover every week? I'd like to think repeated exposure to the chemicals in that over a long period of time (especially in an enclosed un-ventilated space like a bathroom or bedroom where it's usually applied) is much more damaging then the occasional painting without a mask/respirator. As a rule, I find ladies to have far more common sense than the average dude. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 9:10:18 GMT -8
How about: Explosion Flash fire Be safe, Lee Yes, Wilber heads to the garage to Dull Coat the hopper car project, and ............  |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 4, 2016 9:13:28 GMT -8
I have to ask, how many spouses/wives use a facemask or respirator when applying nail polish or remover every week? I'd like to think repeated exposure to the chemicals in that over a long period of time (especially in an enclosed un-ventilated space like a bathroom or bedroom where it's usually applied) is much more damaging then the occasional painting without a mask/respirator. Actually, that's a good point about THAT stuff. Yeah, it might be a good idea. There are issues in the nail fashion industry. New York recently had a rather large dust-up about it, because occupational exposure does need to be regulated as it's much higher and over longer periods of time than individual home exposures. Think of a shop where multiple workers at a time are in there for long periods.. On an individual basis, however, painting the nails probably generates substantially lower concentrations (despite the stench) than spraying solvents or inhaling paint overspray dust from painting models. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 9:14:03 GMT -8
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Post by Gary P on Feb 4, 2016 9:35:02 GMT -8
Ha-ha-ha! How do they know it's 100 feet? Who measured?  |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 4, 2016 9:57:12 GMT -8
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Post by JohnJ on Feb 4, 2016 10:41:45 GMT -8
I don't have a package handy, but I recall recently seeing on a bag of snack peanuts on an airplane: "Warning: contains peanuts."
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 4, 2016 11:48:10 GMT -8
The photo of Walt from Breaking Badly reminded me.
We are talking about occasionally painting, while using some common sense precautions.
We ARE NOT talking about cooking meth.
Those of us that do paint are NOT recommending to huff the stuff
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 4, 2016 12:27:03 GMT -8
What ever happened to reason and common sense?
I use at least a dust mask to paint models so I don't get the colored boogers someone mentioned earlier. Solid, dust is small sized solid, stuff will be as bad as anything in the occasional paint job if it gets past the 'booger catcher' and on to the lungs. As much as anything a paint booth will cut down on overspray all over everything else on the work station.
Lots of the increased 'regulation' is the result of all the environmental beaucracies making work to justify their bloated existence. Heaven help the government agency be phased out as it's mission fades.
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Post by bnsftcdiv on Feb 4, 2016 14:20:22 GMT -8
I have to ask, how many spouses/wives use a facemask or respirator when applying nail polish or remover every week? I'd like to think repeated exposure to the chemicals in that over a long period of time (especially in an enclosed un-ventilated space like a bathroom or bedroom where it's usually applied) is much more damaging then the occasional painting without a mask/respirator. The last time I checked, they aren't aerosolizing the product. Fine particles that get into the lungs, via the nose. I suspect the smell of acetone has harmful properties, but I don't think anyones tossing it around in the air to add/remove their polish. I've noticed there are a whole bunch of great custom painters who are no longer with us-lotsa cancers. Even something as simple as cotton dust will mess with your lungs. I'll take the protective gear and the small cost ( a spray booth, and my respirator mask) and then I'll accept my chances. Your choice, whats your life worth? Dave Burman |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 4, 2016 14:43:38 GMT -8
I have to ask, how many spouses/wives use a facemask or respirator when applying nail polish or remover every week? I'd like to think repeated exposure to the chemicals in that over a long period of time (especially in an enclosed un-ventilated space like a bathroom or bedroom where it's usually applied) is much more damaging then the occasional painting without a mask/respirator. What does the MSDS for acetone vs. say Toluene. Not all VOC's are equal in terms of hazard. |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 4, 2016 15:11:05 GMT -8
I don't have a package handy, but I recall recently seeing on a bag of snack peanuts on an airplane: "Warning: contains peanuts." This makes more sense if you consider the severity of reactions some have because of their peanut allergy. As close together as the sardine people in nowadays, a seat mate ripping that puppy open could lead to an emergency landing. Obviously, peanuts contain peanuts and I'm guessing the bag says Planter or something ungeneric enough to communicate the contents without the warning, but someone was wanting to cover all their legal bases I suspect, maybe because they were sued by someone who opened the bag to confirm what was really inside without the warning on it. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 15:52:43 GMT -8
I don't have a package handy, but I recall recently seeing on a bag of snack peanuts on an airplane: "Warning: contains peanuts." This makes more sense if you consider the severity of reactions some have because of their peanut allergy. As close together as the sardine people in nowadays, a seat mate ripping that puppy open could lead to an emergency landing. Obviously, peanuts contain peanuts and I'm guessing the bag says Planter or something ungeneric enough to communicate the contents without the warning, but someone was wanting to cover all their legal bases I suspect, maybe because they were sued by someone who opened the bag to confirm what was really inside without the warning on it. It makes sense? To label a bag of Peanuts (which says Peanuts on the front) as Caution: Contains peanuts ??!! It is attitudes like this which cause us to be in the mess we are in. EVERYTHING is a DANGER. A Kato Engine is labeled as causing cancer. Milk contains Dairy. Knives will cut you. Scissors are sharp. GM wont license any cars. A toaster over's instructions contain 12 pages of warnings. A loaf of bread contains wheat. Ketchup contains tomatoes. Objects in mirror or closer than they appear. Just go invest in this and protect yourself. That makes sense.  |
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Post by valenciajim on Feb 4, 2016 19:39:07 GMT -8
My latest peave is the elimination of adhesives like Ambroid ProWeld (my favorite). I am building a CMR model of the Fife building which is made out of acrylics. I am having trouble finding a LHS that carries any of the Plastruct, etc. adhesives. I will be driving to Burbank tomorrow in hopes of finding a bottle. I think the Peoples Democratic Republic of California is probably the most restrictive in terms of banning these adhesives.
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Post by Gary P on Feb 5, 2016 3:57:47 GMT -8
..... snipped .... Lots of the increased 'regulation' is the result of all the environmental beaucracies making work to justify their bloated existence. Heaven help the government agency be phased out as it's mission fades. Can you think of any Gov't agency that has actually fixed or eliminated the problem they were created for, and gone away? I can't. They just make the problems bigger! About the closest I can think of getting the job done is the military. For the most part, they have a mission defined and go out and complete it. Seems like every other agency just makes the problems bigger and bigger, and the agency gets bigger and bigger. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 5, 2016 6:38:37 GMT -8
..... snipped .... Lots of the increased 'regulation' is the result of all the environmental beaucracies making work to justify their bloated existence. Heaven help the government agency be phased out as it's mission fades. Can you think of any Gov't agency that has actually fixed or eliminated the problem they were created for, and gone away? I can't. They just make the problems bigger! About the closest I can think of getting the job done is the military. For the most part, they have a mission defined and go out and complete it. Seems like every other agency just makes the problems bigger and bigger, and the agency gets bigger and bigger. Job security. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 5, 2016 10:16:28 GMT -8
Can you think of any Gov't agency that has actually fixed or eliminated the problem they were created for, and gone away? I can't. They just make the problems bigger! About the closest I can think of getting the job done is the military. For the most part, they have a mission defined and go out and complete it. Seems like every other agency just makes the problems bigger and bigger, and the agency gets bigger and bigger. Job security. Well, after years of the dog eat dog world of consulting, lowest bid wins and try to survive ... I'm all about job security. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 5, 2016 12:18:41 GMT -8
Back more or less on topic......
1. In a hobby spray booth....you get what you pay for
2. The better the booth at venting, filtering and construction, the higher to price. You can build a booth out of wood. My friend did it thirty years ago and he used that booth for hundreds of hours. But sheet metal is preferred for safety and its just easier to keep clean. I had a metal booth and would scrub down the walls with lacquer thinner every once and a while to get some of the over spray off the sides.
3. The bigger the motor to expel the smell, vapors and particulate....the better. Small booth and small motor usually still results in smell and particulate escaping into the air while painting.
4. Always wear gloves. I use automotive gloves because they are tough and resistant to chemicals. They fit like surgical gloves and can be bought at a place like Harbor Freight for very little money.
5. Get a respirator. Speaking of Harbor Freight, it may not be top of the line but it should be reasonable and give you at least some protection.
6. USE COMMON SENSE....Don't lock yourself in a small shed with no ventilation, create a cloud of paint particles and fumes and.........light a match!
Remember that venting is the best thing you can do to protect yourself.
Beware that many times even with a spray booth there will be paint dust and smell escaping, especially after a long painting session.
On a whole painting is not dangerous. But you still need to practice at least some form of safety. Even painting outside could effect people, if they are downwind.
Part of the fun of model railroading is to build. When we build, we use all kinds of various chemicals. Glues, CA - is very dangerous for your respiratory system, silicone compounds, chalks can get into your breathing, track cleaner, etc. A lot that we touch does have some harmful effects. Even the now discontinued Polly Scale and still in production Model-Flex warn against vapors.
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Post by dti406 on Feb 5, 2016 12:33:43 GMT -8
It's easy to be blase about the risks posed by chemicals that seem common around us. The problem is that humans vary in how different stuff affects us. You can choose to roll the dice, believing in your own invulnerability. Teenagers do that all the time, that's why the toll of things like car accidents and death from alcohol poisoning are so high for them. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. But if you have a family, do you really want to find out your kid's or significant other's genes are not the same as yours in terms of their ability to withstand such systemic insults? Yeah, some folks still don't insist their kids where seatbelts. I'll admit I survived that era, by good luck. How lucky are you feeling? Because you're talking luck, not wisdom if you blatantly disregard product warnings. More people are killed every year by toilet seats than by shark attacks! Rick J |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2016 14:13:39 GMT -8
More people are killed every year by toilet seats than by shark attacks! Rick J That one seems funny until you've been to the lands of squat toilets. There, the warning should be something to the effect, "Westerners, keep your feet in the appropriate locations." Weirdly enough, in a similar distressing vein, I was reading a birders magazine in the waiting room of the med lab this week. Seems that something Jim F. may be familiar with is a hazard to many birds, the open posts and pipes that are often used for land and claim markers out West or, the other big source of the problem, ventstacks for outdoor potties. Seems that some birds are attracted to them as resembling nesting sites, then get in and can't climb or fly back out due to confined space within. They either starve or beat themselves to death struggling to get out. Problem is, birds don't read warning signs. So there's a program to install screens or simply to cap such posts to keep the ignorant birds out. Too bad dumb humans are usually not so easily protected from stupid behavior, even with signs... |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Feb 5, 2016 17:34:33 GMT -8
GaryP,
I can think of at least one government program that was created to fix a problem, did so, and then went away. Not only that, the US Gov't actually made money on the deal. Wanna know what that we know it as? We call it "Conrail".
And for the record, government programs are created to solve a problem, but then these programs need to be maintained or the problem quickly reappears. For example, take the National Park Service. It was created to preserve historic places (like Minuteman Park in Lexington, MA) or natural wonders (like Yellowstone). The US Gov't spent a bunch of money buying land, setting these places up (visitor centers, etc.) and so on. Now, you just can't stop there. You have to continue to fund them or these areas fall into disrepair, or will get developed, etc.
Take the US Postal Service. It was created in response to a wildcat strike because workers only got a raise when US Congress wanted them to (IOW, never), and the management ranks were full of political appointees (who had no idea what they were doing). By making it a Gov't Owned Corporation, the USPS has been able to both pay their union workers a decent wage, but also make money at the same time. In fact, the USPS hasn't received a dime of Gov't money in well over 30 years, and all we have to show for it is the finest and least expensive postal service in the world. Unfortunately, US Congress got involved again, and forced them to forward fund their retirement benefits for the next 75 years in just 15 years. The amount? $500m. How much does the USPS lose every year? $500m. Coincidence?
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Post by riogrande on Feb 5, 2016 18:03:35 GMT -8
Speaking of that toilet warning, I remember when I was a student at Sacramento State University, there were students from other countries who I'm pretty sure would do exactly what was shown in that photo. Sometimes there would be sandle foot prints on the toilet seats or there would be a guy in the stall but yet no feet on the floor. It was a problem in the dorms and student buildings as occasionally the seats would be broken. SMH |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Feb 5, 2016 20:00:57 GMT -8
Well, considering that their toilets are trenches in the floor. There is no seat. So if you're used to using the facilities the same way all your life, it must be confusing for them to walk into a bathroom and see our bowl. Just like when folks like us walk into a trench toilet bathroom and say, "Where the heck is the seat?"
BTW, the only trench toilet I've ever seen in real life was at Fenway Park before they modernized the facilities. And that was one long trench for every guy to use...no privacy.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 6, 2016 3:53:42 GMT -8
I didn't know floor toilets ever existed in the US. I've only seen one once in my life back when I was traveling with though Yugoslavia with a group and the gas station toilet was like that - metal plate in the floor with tread molded in on either side of the opening. Have to admit it was strange. Most western countries are some variation of what it's like in the US, the ones I visited anyway (England, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Belgium, France and most of Yugoslavia [Slovenia and Croatia at least save the gas station toilet) Germany is now having to educate many migrants on the cultural differences to those who are from the middle east and north Africa after some er, incidents.
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Post by mrsocal on Feb 6, 2016 6:19:57 GMT -8
What ever happened to reason and common sense? Unfortunately it does not seem to be being taught anymore. |
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Post by Gary P on Feb 6, 2016 7:10:50 GMT -8
GaryP, I can think of at least one government program that was created to fix a problem, did so, and then went away. Not only that, the US Gov't actually made money on the deal. Wanna know what that we know it as? We call it "Conrail". And for the record, government programs are created to solve a problem, but then these programs need to be maintained or the problem quickly reappears. For example, take the National Park Service. It was created to preserve historic places (like Minuteman Park in Lexington, MA) or natural wonders (like Yellowstone). The US Gov't spent a bunch of money buying land, setting these places up (visitor centers, etc.) and so on. Now, you just can't stop there. You have to continue to fund them or these areas fall into disrepair, or will get developed, etc. Take the US Postal Service. It was created in response to a wildcat strike because workers only got a raise when US Congress wanted them to (IOW, never), and the management ranks were full of political appointees (who had no idea what they were doing). By making it a Gov't Owned Corporation, the USPS has been able to both pay their union workers a decent wage, but also make money at the same time. In fact, the USPS hasn't received a dime of Gov't money in well over 30 years, and all we have to show for it is the finest and least expensive postal service in the world. Unfortunately, US Congress got involved again, and forced them to forward fund their retirement benefits for the next 75 years in just 15 years. The amount? $500m. How much does the USPS lose every year? $500m. Coincidence? Paul - Good examples, and something that I was not thinking of... I especially liked the post office one. Shame the retirement benefit funding screwed them over. I was thinking more of the war on poverty, war on drugs, welfare, etc.... Anyway, I've got another question on paint booths..... It's been mentioned about using filters on a spray booth. Why does the exhausted air need to be filtered? To keep spray from getting on the outside of your house? |
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