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Post by JohnJ on Feb 1, 2016 11:40:09 GMT -8
Custom-painting models has become a real interest of mine lately, but I don't own a spray booth at this point. I shoot mainly acrylics, but lacquer-based finishes to apply Dullcote are apparently a necessary evil. I understand lacquer-based paint can be some real nasty stuff health-wise.
For those of you who airbrush, how religious are you about using a paint booth? I'm not terribly worried about the acrylics, but Dullcote does give me a lot of worry without a booth. How much risk is there really in sporadic (once a month or so) exposure to this stuff?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 1, 2016 11:56:54 GMT -8
I once sprayed Floquil in a closed room. Curiously, I had pain in my liver immediately after. I decided I wouldn't do it again.
Now, they DO make facemasks for organic solvents. And you COULD wear one. But then, what happens when you take the mask off?
Actually, the problem isn't the spray booth. It's breathing the solvents. It's just that a spray booth minimizes the latter. My neighbor used to spray outside. That works too. Except for the bits of airborn dust and schmutz that showed up on his models.
Ed
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Post by mlehman on Feb 1, 2016 12:07:49 GMT -8
Custom-painting models has become a real interest of mine lately, but I don't own a spray booth at this point. I shoot mainly acrylics, but lacquer-based finishes to apply Dullcote are apparently a necessary evil. I understand lacquer-based paint can be some real nasty stuff health-wise. SNIP If you're doing this regularly, I would highly recommend some sort of properly ventilated spray booth. It's the only set of lungs you have -- and getting another pair is a mighty steep climb. It's not just the solvents, although those are the most immediately threatening. The dried dust generated from shooting acrylics isn't good to inhale, either, so you also need protection from that. Even with a spray booth, unless it's a really efficient pro model, you're still advised to wear the proper mask because of overspray and vapor not being 100% cleared. I only use an airbrush sometimes, but do so outside or in my shop where the big door can be opened. Most frequently, I use da can, and outdoors I go -- or sometimes to the garage in the winter if I need just a brief spritz, then I leave. You can usually hold your breath long enough for that. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 1, 2016 12:56:58 GMT -8
You should not breath the junk.
Use a fan, or outside, or a good mask.
Dont risk it.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Feb 1, 2016 13:16:51 GMT -8
I use a paint booth, a mask, gloves -- even for painting with acrylics. I don't want to paint the insides of my lungs.
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Post by TBird1958 on Feb 1, 2016 13:31:13 GMT -8
Custom-painting models has become a real interest of mine lately, but I don't own a spray booth at this point. I shoot mainly acrylics, but lacquer-based finishes to apply Dullcote are apparently a necessary evil. I understand lacquer-based paint can be some real nasty stuff health-wise. For those of you who airbrush, how religious are you about using a paint booth? I'm not terribly worried about the acrylics, but Dullcote does give me a lot of worry without a booth. How much risk is there really in sporadic (once a month or so) exposure to this stuff?
If you're really going to paint and are after consistent, good results you'll need a booth, even your acrylics will work better with a booth. I paint 3-4 times a week, sometimes more , my booth uses a large squirrel cage fan that creates a noticeable outflow so no fumes in the workspace. Gloves and a mask are still a good idea. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Feb 1, 2016 13:50:26 GMT -8
Ask your doctor.
I once painted without a booth or a mask (back when I was still in High School). I never made that mistake again because when I blew my nose right after, it all came out Conrail Blue.
Buy a booth, or at least build one using a squirrel cage fan from Granger and some plywood. And vent it outside. I use a piece of plywood cut to fit my window frame with a dryer vent through it. I stick it in my window and seal it off like a window mounted A/C.
And it won't hurt to wear a mask, even with acrylics. A $30 to $50 investment in a mask is a lot cheaper than medical bills of any sort.
Why risk it?
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Post by calzephyr on Feb 1, 2016 13:51:34 GMT -8
Custom-painting models has become a real interest of mine lately, but I don't own a spray booth at this point. I shoot mainly acrylics, but lacquer-based finishes to apply Dullcote are apparently a necessary evil. I understand lacquer-based paint can be some real nasty stuff health-wise. For those of you who airbrush, how religious are you about using a paint booth? I'm not terribly worried about the acrylics, but Dullcote does give me a lot of worry without a booth. How much risk is there really in sporadic (once a month or so) exposure to this stuff? Any and all paint with an airbrush should use a paint booth or be outside with no wind. I don't recommend painting outside as dust or other factors can cause problems. I built my own paint booth out of plywood and connected it to a large squirrel cage fan with ducting to vent to the outside of the garage. No paint is good for your lungs and the fumes can be very dangerous to your health if an ignition point is supplied with the paint fumes. A mask and rubber gloves are also a good idea just to keep fumes out of your lungs when mixing paint. Larry |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 14:53:02 GMT -8
Custom-painting models has become a real interest of mine lately, but I don't own a spray booth at this point. I shoot mainly acrylics, but lacquer-based finishes to apply Dullcote are apparently a necessary evil. I understand lacquer-based paint can be some real nasty stuff health-wise. For those of you who airbrush, how religious are you about using a paint booth? I'm not terribly worried about the acrylics, but Dullcote does give me a lot of worry without a booth. How much risk is there really in sporadic (once a month or so) exposure to this stuff? Once a month? About as harmful as a cup of coffee per month. The risk from occasional paint use, even solvent-based, is way overblown. |
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Post by emd16645 on Feb 1, 2016 15:20:22 GMT -8
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Post by Gary P on Feb 2, 2016 6:20:29 GMT -8
I have several fans that were taken out of old computers. I saved them just in case I were to need a paint booth. I was thinking of using 2 or three of them. Do you think they are "good enough" or does it require a fairly high CFM to be safe?
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Post by mlehman on Feb 2, 2016 8:28:44 GMT -8
Gary,
Using several would be a start and may be sufficient if only shooting acrylics, but I doubt that just one would be worthwhile. But you really need a higher CFM to clear vapors, as they will otherwise tend to build up in your room. Also, not sure they're rated for solvents, but I think they're sealed and sparkless so may be OK even if not certified for that.
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Post by Gary P on Feb 2, 2016 9:06:27 GMT -8
Gary, Using several would be a start and may be sufficient if only shooting acrylics, but I doubt that just one would be worthwhile. But you really need a higher CFM to clear vapors, as they will otherwise tend to build up in your room. Also, not sure they're rated for solvents, but I think they're sealed and sparkless so may be OK even if not certified for that. That is why I asked.  They are sparkless, but you're probably right in that they do not move enough air. I'll just look for a good squirrel cage fan that moves more air than these. I've got a few of these, 5 or 6 that I remember, and wonder if they are of any other use? |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 2, 2016 9:11:02 GMT -8
Gary,
I know Grainger sells them rated that way, but there's also plenty of others that aren't rated. Check the labels. If it doesn't say that they're OK in fumes, then Googling may still show they are by mfg's part number.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 2, 2016 16:46:27 GMT -8
I use a booth and always have used a booth.
Now even with a large metal hobby spray booth with squirrel cage motor, vented outside and with a thick filter, I still had odor and some particles. I know for I've had some very colorful boogers over the years! My house has also smelled for about 24 hours or more after I'd been painting for a lengthy time.
I do A LOT OF PAINTING and I'm still alive.
Now I use a metal booth with an old furnace squirrel cage blower and housing. It is vented outside. The motor is extremely powerful and could suck the fillings out of your teeth. Now with this mega blower, I still have a few colorful boogers, but not as bad and the smell is gone in a quick amount of time. The downside to the furnace blower motor is it sucks electricity like a hog.
I SIMPLY HATE acrylic paints like Polly Scale and Model Flex. Model Flex is not even on my radar screen, I truly despise the stuff. I spray all enamels, acetone based paint(Tru-Color) and lacquer(Dul-Cote and Gloss-Cote). Last time I looked I haven't blown the house up, nor kicked the bucket, since I'm composing this post are still living and breathing.
Back in the 1980's my friend and I put on a paint clinic for an NMRA show. We sprayed Floquil and Scalecoat paints on some scrap shells. Used a simple cardboard to contain the spray. There was an odor in the room from the paint......we lighted a candle. The people in the room gasped, or at least some, for they thought they were going to be blown to kingdom come. The point of the demonstration was unless your spraying so much you have fog cloud of vapor and particles, even enamels are not as dangerous as they have been made out to be by some in the media. I'm not saying to dump your Scalecoat in the river but a little spraying isn't going to kill you or level your house.
I wear surgical gloves when painting. When I'm finished with a color and have cleaned the brush out, I throw them out. The gloves are pretty tough and resistant to paints and lacquer thinner. I do have a very good mask but it is old and doesn't fit my face as well as I'd like, so I don't use it. Hence the colorful boogers.
I would not paint outside simply because of dirt and debris in the air. Even in the house a model being painted seems to be an ultra magnet for a speck of dust!
Still alive after all these years.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 2, 2016 17:35:44 GMT -8
Jim,
George Burns smoked all his live and lived to be 100, but based all all medical info and advice, sounds like he was just lucky - and maybe so have you been. I worked in the hazardous waste field for a number of years and was OSHA 40 HAZWOPER certified and had many yearly 8 hour refreshers. The VOC's in solvent based paints are bad to breath and I will side with most of the respondents here and say don't take it lightly. A paint booth with negative airflow is necessary for avoiding those hazardous vapors. If that wasn't doing the job, I'd add a half face Repirator too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 20:11:40 GMT -8
I still use a full respirator mask; with the cartridges...and my paint booth. That's with lacquer, enamel, or acrylic paints.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 3, 2016 2:37:16 GMT -8
I used to have a full face respirator (Scott) from the environmental consulting job but no longer. Full face are best. I had to have an annual fit test to prove it sealed properly when required for my job.
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Post by JohnJ on Feb 3, 2016 10:08:18 GMT -8
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Post by mlehman on Feb 3, 2016 10:29:53 GMT -8
John, Those should work. Obviously, on the spray booth you want to aim the vent somewhere other than back into your face, that's only for illustration purposes. Check the manual, but you can probably extend the hose some, but not too far if that works for your install. The fitting on the end is designed so you only need to crack the window open a little bit if that's your intended target for the expelled air, a pretty good idea. The mask says "certain organic vapors" and suitable for painting, so I assume they mean those common in paint. You should check the fine print to be certain, but I expect that should work. Another point on the mask. I only shoot solvent-based paint outside and with the wind at my back. I've got a beard, so a mask doesn't offer much help because it won't seal properly. Something to consider, depending on how attached you are to any facial hair  |
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Feb 3, 2016 15:00:14 GMT -8
How about:
Emphysema
Lung Cancer
COPD
Explosion
Flash fire
Overexposure to noxious fumes
Brain damage
...just to name a few.
If you smoke, have any type of asthma or chronic bronchitis or have a family history of poor health, you should never breath paint fumes ( solvent or water-based ) and use a mask and spray booth.
Be safe,
Lee
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Post by atsfan on Feb 3, 2016 17:19:14 GMT -8
I once made a red neck spray booth.
Worked fine. For several years.
Garage window, open. No screen.
Cheap $20 inch box fan pointing out window.
Heavy large card board box.
Cheap air intake filter.
Cut box so bottom has hole the size of filter.
Duct tape box to filter and fan.
Point fan out window.
Plug in fan and turn on.
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Post by trenes115 on Feb 3, 2016 19:51:28 GMT -8
For those that have used home brewed paint booths, what types of fans work? I would like to do a small amount of painting and don't want to spend an arm and a leg.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 22:35:40 GMT -8
How about: Emphysema Lung Cancer COPD Explosion Flash fire Overexposure to noxious fumes Brain damage ...just to name a few. If you smoke, have any type of asthma or chronic bronchitis or have a family history of poor health, you should never breath paint fumes ( solvent or water-based ) and use a mask and spray booth. Be safe, Lee OMG! Better leave the painting to experts! Better yet, have the Chinese do it. Shelter in Place! Brain damage from painting models once a month? There's being safe and there's being paranoid. Do you drive a car? That's far more dangerous. |
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Post by stottman on Feb 3, 2016 23:59:31 GMT -8
I have done it.
I sometimes get a sore throat if I spend too much time using plastic glue / MEK inside.. Nothing from paint.
Not saying thnat spraying inside is the greatest idea, but it can't be any worse then using glue inside.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 4, 2016 4:57:22 GMT -8
Brain damage from painting models once a month? There's being safe and there's being paranoid. Do you drive a car? That's far more dangerous. Sure, nothing is entirely without risk. But if you want to "live long and prosper", I'd personally rather at least try to stack the odds in your favor and follow best practices where possible. Once a month breathing harmful vapors over a period of years could add up to something that could shorten your life - perhaps many years. Read the MSDS (materials safety data sheet) for solvents being used and taking appropriate precautions makes good sense. Some of the BTEX solvents are used in paints and those aren't nice - Benzene, Ethyl-0benzene, Toluene and Xylenes. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 6:07:06 GMT -8
For those that have used home brewed paint booths, what types of fans work? I would like to do a small amount of painting and don't want to spend an arm and a leg. Just use a $20 box fan available from walmart, dollar stores, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 7:45:48 GMT -8
Brain damage from painting models once a month? There's being safe and there's being paranoid. Do you drive a car? That's far more dangerous. Sure, nothing is entirely without risk. But if you want to "live long and prosper", I'd personally rather at least try to stack the odds in your favor and follow best practices where possible. Once a month breathing harmful vapors over a period of years could add up to something that could shorten your life - perhaps many years. Read the MSDS (materials safety data sheet) for solvents being used and taking appropriate precautions makes good sense. Some of the BTEX solvents are used in paints and those aren't nice - Benzene, Ethyl-0benzene, Toluene and Xylenes. Key word "could". You "could" be hit by a meteorite walking out the door. There is no proof that painting models once a month causes any health problems.  Walt, ready to shoot a GP7. Don't be like Walt. Do you wear a helmet when you drive? Why not? Because even though there is data that lives would be saved, it's overkill. I never said some precaution wasn't necessary (don't paint in a small closed room, don't paint with a breeze blowing the paint back in your face, exercise more care if you have asthma, etc), but painting the occasional model outdoors or near an open window isn't going to hurt any healthy person. The "safety at all costs" attitude, promoted in large part by lawyers and gov't nanny-types, has resulted in a nation afraid of any/everything. I think I'll go watch Patton... |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 4, 2016 7:54:19 GMT -8
It's easy to be blase about the risks posed by chemicals that seem common around us. The problem is that humans vary in how different stuff affects us. You can choose to roll the dice, believing in your own invulnerability. Teenagers do that all the time, that's why the toll of things like car accidents and death from alcohol poisoning are so high for them. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. But if you have a family, do you really want to find out your kid's or significant other's genes are not the same as yours in terms of their ability to withstand such systemic insults? Yeah, some folks still don't insist their kids where seatbelts. I'll admit I survived that era, by good luck. How lucky are you feeling? Because you're talking luck, not wisdom if you blatantly disregard product warnings. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 4, 2016 8:20:30 GMT -8
The OP spoke of "once a month" use of paint. Respondents are talking about emphysema. 1-800-OVERREACT COMMON SENSE precautions like Omaha Road spoke of (paint outside, not with wind in face, use a cheap mask, adequate ventilation, etc, etc. ) are what is needed. Sure, if you have $$$ get or make a spray booth. I did but not due to lungs, due to mess of paint landing on places. I agree, Joe Average Modeler does not need to look like this:  |
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They are sparkless, but you're probably right in that they do not move enough air. I'll just look for a good squirrel cage fan that moves more air than these. I've got a few of these, 5 or 6 that I remember, and wonder if they are of any other use? 
