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Post by stevef45 on Feb 23, 2016 18:06:35 GMT -8
Just read this on one of the Soundtraxx yahoo groups today. Kinda sucks, hopefully there will be a replacement in the future.
"I was at Prairie Rails this past weekend and George from Soundtraxx
was one of the participants.
1) George would not comment on any "replacement" for the Tsunami.
His answer to questions about the long rumored "Tsunami II" was
"I don't know what you are talking about".
2) The discontinuance of the Tsunami line is being FORCED by the
lack of availability of one or more of the key components on
the boards. It's going to happen whether we (or Soundtraxx)
are ready for it.
3) I didn't think to ask about the difference between ceasing
production and running out of inventory. I have no idea how
long they will have product to ship.
4) George also refused to comment on any "date for an upcoming
announcement".
5) At least one of the layout owners said that he can't use the Econami
"because it has wires coming out of both ends" and therefore it won't
fit in the locos he uses for his 1895 layout.
Personally, I consider -none- of the above to be a "major concern". I'm
happy with the Econamis for most of my future installs. What is missing
in the Econami line - for me - are all of the rest of the sound sets that
already exist in the Tsunami line.
Will Soundtraxx merely "port" (as in "portage") the sound sets to the
Econamis (or the "Tsunami II")? Your guess is as good as mine on that.
6) George specifically said that the sound sets in the Econamis are
better than the same sound sets in the Tsunamis.
Personally - I don't care/can't hear the difference. What that
means is that I am not even close to wanting to replace an
existing Tsunami install with an Econami ... just to get the better
sounds.
7) The motor control in the Econami is significantly improved over
the Tsunamis. Even with that I'm not considering replacing any
existing Tsunami install. I've figured out how to get them to run
the way I want them to run (and, yes, I'm finicky about how they
run). Is it easier/better with the Econamis? Yes. Are the
Tsunamis
I have/work on "good enough"? Yes - definitely. I, for one, don't
consider the Econami motor control to be enough better to matter.
8) The other "missing piece" of the Econami line is the form factor.
I am hoping that we will see "A format" and other such very
important sizes/configurations in the Econami line. Soon!
I, for one, am not a fan of the "mother board" solutions. Maybe
I will be sometime in the future?
I got 'burned' by the delays of the Tsunami decoders. They -were-
better and definitely "raised the bar" for all sound decoders.
But I don't consider the latest generation of sound decoders (Econami,
WOW, and LokSound) to be "game changers" - they aren't so important
that I'm even considering replacing any existing installs.
I'm actually happy - even enthusiastic - about the announcement of
the last of the Tsunamis. They came out over a decade ago and have
enjoyed a long run ... but "it's time". *G*
My -biggest- concern about the upcoming cessation of production
of the Tsunami line is "the availability of the sound sets that are in
the Tsunamis and not in the Econamis" ... YET.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 23, 2016 19:09:51 GMT -8
Steve,
Interesting stuff. Good to hear that the sound files in the Econami have been updated. I know that several folks have insisted they're the same old stuff originally on the Tsunami, but apparently not.
I would note that nothing was said that precludes something other than the Tsunami as the top of the line decoder at Soundtraxx.
I suppose component availability could be a factor, but I suspect if it is, it's a component used on the current Tsunami that the issue. Given how long it's been in production, it wouldn't surprise me that something that was used no longer is at hand. Obviously, with the Tsunami being long in tooth (and I suspect something IS in the works to replace it), they're not going to put it through a redesign at this point to use another component.
Why do I say there is something still out on the line and not yet arrived? Copy for the new big Ks by Blackstone have been indicating for some time that these locos will feature "a DC/DCC SoundTraxx® Digital Sound Decoder." That fits with it not being a Tsunami, at least with not calling it a Tsunami, but something else. And if something else, one would think it would be mentioned if it was an Econami, so I suspect it's not that either. My own speculation is that when the new Blackstone K-36 does arrive, it will be sporting whatever they decide that decoder will be called and will be used to introduce both the loco and the new decoder, because these will be premium products well-placed to market the new product.
We should also keep in mind that there were some misgivings expressed about the name Tsunami after the tsunami hit Japan and started the Fukushima reactor meltdown. Not sure how bothered they were about this in Durango, but this would be a good time to make a switch to a name with less baggage attached to it.
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Post by lajrmdlr on Feb 23, 2016 19:37:06 GMT -8
Supposedly next month? there will be more new decoders from Soundtraxx.
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 23, 2016 19:51:41 GMT -8
Good thing i picked up a few used tsunami's for my projects as it might get hard to get soon. That and if they are available before a new replacement comes, the prices might be to high.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 20:18:00 GMT -8
The most recent Wheaton train show I was at, there is a guy that sells decoders there and he told me that Soundtraxx was getting rid of the line but that they wouldn't say what was going to replace it. I'm thinking because of the 21 pin setup everyone is going to might be part of the reason why, but that just doesn't seem like a good enough reason. I like to get some more Tsunami's from him before his run out. I really like their E unit sound, just wish I had the bucks for a bunch of decoders.
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Post by notabob on Feb 23, 2016 20:29:30 GMT -8
Next generation full-featured Soundtraxx decoders are coming. Before end of Q1, most likely. They will be 21-pin and unlike the econami, should be compatible with the now essentially defacto (thanks to ESU) Euro 21-pin standard.
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 23, 2016 21:10:45 GMT -8
What's the advantage to having a 21 pin v. 9 pin v. 8 pin?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 23, 2016 22:02:33 GMT -8
What's the advantage to having a 21 pin v. 9 pin v. 8 pin? More outputs, for sure. Maybe more inputs. Ed |
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Post by steveturner on Feb 23, 2016 22:23:14 GMT -8
It certainly appears ESU has become the leader in sound also being 21 pin.Just look at the number of loco mfgs now onboard with ESU. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that ESU has taken a huge bite out of the North American sound market. They have been very agresive and proactive in promoting true sound. Competition is good it keeps uping the bar! Steve
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 23, 2016 22:50:13 GMT -8
What's the advantage to having a 21 pin v. 9 pin v. 8 pin? More functions can be prewired into the surrounding board. |
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Post by bdhicks on Feb 23, 2016 23:19:13 GMT -8
The 21 pin connector combines all of the wires (extra functions, cam inputs, keepalive, speaker, etc) that might be coming off of a sound decoder into one connector.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 24, 2016 0:24:03 GMT -8
21 pin will surely be ONE of the new form factors. But you only need to look at the various form factors already offered in the Econami to realize that 21 pin is simply one variant among a family of different packaging to suit the varied needs of the hobby.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 24, 2016 2:21:29 GMT -8
It certainly appears ESU has become the leader in sound also being 21 pin.Just look at the number of loco mfgs now onboard with ESU. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that ESU has taken a huge bite out of the North American sound market. They have been very agresive and proactive in promoting true sound. Competition is good it keeps uping the bar! Steve Every time I hear a Loksound these days I am really impressed; the difference is like night and day. Before I heard them I was apathetic about sound but the Loksound are so nice from every demonstration. |
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Post by notabob on Feb 24, 2016 2:35:05 GMT -8
21 pin will surely be ONE of the new form factors. But you only need to look at the various form factors already offered in the Econami to realize that 21 pin is simply one variant among a family of different packaging to suit the varied needs of the hobby. True enough. But this is an HO forum, so I'm only thinking about those offerings. If I were running the product, for HO market I would build a single board only (21-pin), and offer with a range of adapter modules - 21->8-pin, 21->9-pin, and 21->21 solder pads for custom installs. I'm sure they'll offer a mini for N, and a larger version for O and possibly even G. But it is HO model that's going to be the bread and butter of the offering. And while we're speculating, if they don't offer programmable sound capabilities - it will truly be a let down. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 24, 2016 6:48:08 GMT -8
Can you clarify this thread please?
Are you saying the Tsunami decoders are going to be taken off the market, as in NOT AVAILABLE? Gone. Kaput.
Or are you saying they will be replaced by a newer version?
Or something else?
This thread is misleading to me.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 24, 2016 6:50:55 GMT -8
21 pin will surely be ONE of the new form factors. But you only need to look at the various form factors already offered in the Econami to realize that 21 pin is simply one variant among a family of different packaging to suit the varied needs of the hobby. True enough. But this is an HO forum, so I'm only thinking about those offerings. If I were running the product, for HO market I would build a single board only (21-pin), and offer with a range of adapter modules - 21->8-pin, 21->9-pin, and 21->21 solder pads for custom installs. I'm sure they'll offer a mini for N, and a larger version for O and possibly even G. But it is HO model that's going to be the bread and butter of the offering. And while we're speculating, if they don't offer programmable sound capabilities - it will truly be a let down. I could see that, but 21 pin + adapter is kinda largish for many HOn3 appliacations, so I suspect that something beyond the basic 21 pin is surely planned. Then there's N, where 21 pin is rather huge, but which could also cover narrowgauge in larger scales (HOn3, HOn30). I strongly suspect you're correct that some form of programmable option is planned. That would be one feature that will set it apart from the Econami and the current Tsunami. It's got to be in the mix, given the competition. Just to hang with future competition, too, as this would extend the product life cycle and avoid the nibbling away of market share that's happened with the Tsunami the last few years. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 7:13:43 GMT -8
Can you clarify this thread please? Are you saying the Tsunami decoders are going to be taken off the market, as in NOT AVAILABLE? Gone. Kaput. Or are you saying they will be replaced by a newer version? Or something else? This thread is misleading to me. I believe the issue is that they can no longer be produced due to a lack of parts. There's a rumor of a Tsunami II coming out at some point, but it's still just a rumor. So for now, there's still Tsunami decoders, until they can't get any more parts. Then they finish producing what they can, put them on the shelves, and that's it. End of the line. |
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Post by Tom on Feb 24, 2016 7:21:20 GMT -8
No loss. It's 10+ year old technology.
The 21-pin standard was announced, interestingly enough, by the NMRA about 10 years ago too.
For those who do not wish to use the pin connector and like the TCS A-series, NCE's DASR, ESU has the Loksound Direct (look closely at the board, the N-scale decoder is on it)
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Post by steveturner on Feb 24, 2016 7:46:53 GMT -8
TCS offers adaptor boards to match 21 pin solutions.Transition has been a bit messy with 21 pin but its catching on.NMRA i think was slow to move on this and has not kept current or proactive with a hobby thats moving fast technology wise. We need more than a NMRA gauge these days!.Steve
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Post by GP40P-2 on Feb 24, 2016 8:13:00 GMT -8
No loss. It's 10+ year old technology. And that sums it up right there. How many have a 10+ year old cell phone? Yea, I thought so. As soon as Tsunami II or whatever hits the shelves, there will be Tsunamis all over Ebay as many will try to upgrade to the latest and greatest. There is no way that Soundtraxx is going to just roll over and go away, or be content producing an occasional Blackstone release. They know what they are doing and obviously have something up their sleeve. Jim |
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Post by steveturner on Feb 24, 2016 8:30:08 GMT -8
Market share and pricing will dictate who stays in the running. I know dealers who are eating old stock in all areas of sound, its a crap shoot. Plus with everyone getting on the ESU bandwagon dealers especially the small guys are scrambleing to cut their losses and move stock. Myself i have not changed or upgraded any decoders ,sound or other.I am living with what i have because i need to put what little modeling money i have into areas i have not touched yet. If it works i am not opening a can of worms and doing changes. On another note it will be interesting to see how the TCS sound decoder works out for guys. Talking ESU Bowser is also offering ESU sound drop in packages for their pre sound units, thats being smart and business like. i tell you if i was not at the top of the class in the sound business i would be feeling a little edgy right now with plenty to think about.Some interesting times ahead as the sound market advances bigtime. Its a limited market so i dont know if pricing will drop.I dare say sound will be everyday common just like DCC became. Steve
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Post by riogrande on Feb 24, 2016 9:37:08 GMT -8
Y'all might be interested in a decoder topic over at MRH forums: model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/25563A couple guys who work with Loksound closely have some interesting details there to read. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 24, 2016 9:48:11 GMT -8
Can you clarify this thread please? Are you saying the Tsunami decoders are going to be taken off the market, as in NOT AVAILABLE? Gone. Kaput. Or are you saying they will be replaced by a newer version? Or something else? This thread is misleading to me. It would appear that what is clear, the Tsunami as we know it is done with. As far as anything else, there does not appear to be anything known leading to the perfect storm. Supposition, speculation, doubt, panic, blame, all of which are the fuel of a lively, if totally specious thread on the internet. Grab a chair, a cool beverage and sit back. Full court press is on....        all we need is an icon of an old krone stirring the pot.... It's sort of done just that hasn't it? |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 24, 2016 9:51:38 GMT -8
And that sums it up right there. How many have a 10+ year old cell phone? Yea, I thought so. Mine's 7 years old FWIW  ... |
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Post by Gary P on Feb 24, 2016 9:56:17 GMT -8
And that sums it up right there. How many have a 10+ year old cell phone? Yea, I thought so. Mine's 7 years old FWIW ... Hah! I still have a flip phone! |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 24, 2016 10:10:13 GMT -8
No loss. It's 10+ year old technology. And that sums it up right there. How many have a 10+ year old cell phone? Yea, I thought so. As soon as Tsunami II or whatever hits the shelves, there will be Tsunamis all over Ebay as many will try to upgrade to the latest and greatest. There is no way that Soundtraxx is going to just roll over and go away, or be content producing an occasional Blackstone release. They know what they are doing and obviously have something up their sleeve. Jim About a year ago, I could have answered yes to that 10+ year old cell phone! But "yeah, thought so." At least one still does heh heh! Don't be surprised! Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Soundtrax does. I only have two which came in Athearn loco's but like the Loksound I've been hearing that given the choice, they sure sound like a clear winner. The future is any ones guess. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Feb 24, 2016 11:13:00 GMT -8
ST either gets something new and improved out there or they will go the way of MRC and Digitrax sound, among the other casualties of the Tsunami revolution of 10 years ago.
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Post by loophog on Feb 24, 2016 12:45:52 GMT -8
Seems to me that at least from the postings on Soundtraxx Facebook page there's more updates about their new facilities then new products. I've tried the Economi decoders but I'm not sold on them and the RTR sound that they're making for Athearn isn't very good either.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 24, 2016 13:26:10 GMT -8
Seems to me that at least from the postings on Soundtraxx Facebook page there's more updates about their new facilities then new products. SNIP Look at it this way. Investments like that are much better news than if they were taking all this flak and there wasn't any important news coming out of Durango. New production lines mean entirely new form-factors for the basic boards. You're already seeing that with the Econami. Eventually, you'll see the new Whatever come off those lines. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 24, 2016 13:33:32 GMT -8
ST either gets something new and improved out there or they will go the way of MRC and Digitrax sound, among the other casualties of the Tsunami revolution of 10 years ago. So Digitrax is out of the sound business too? I never really followed them or heard much other than some people using them. What about WOW from TCS, are those still going strong? |
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all we need is an icon of an old krone stirring the pot.... 
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