Atlas Custom Switches?

[ldbennett]

I just bought 5 right and one left #4 Atlas Custom Line switches and I'm confused. My intent was to buy a better switch than their standard grade (I already have two right manual switchess on the existing layout that I am expanding). Here's the confusion:

1. When compared to the existing switches there seems little difference except for the pricing. They appear to be of the same quality (??).

2. The plastic insulated frog of the Custom Line switches is about twice as long as the regular one's which MAY preclude my single truck Birney Trolley from being able to negotiate it without stopping. How is that "better"?

3. What does the Custom Line switches have that the regular ones don't?

Can anyone explain how "insulated" vs "non-insulated" works for these turnouts? I am not using a block system as this is a point to point single mainline trolley layout. The entire layout is one block except for sidings which are isolated with a control switch so six trolleys can be stored on the dead end sidings. Only one trolley at a time is let out to run the mainline and the power to the track is straight DC.

Any help in this matter is appreciated.

LDBennett

[steveturner]

Exccuse my language but Atlas switches are garbage. The main difference i believe in Atlas switches is the Geometry plus some allow for powering of the frog. Issues in the past have been they dont sit flat, big dips at the frog where wheels drop down , wobbly and poor power in point rails, and out of gauge. I think the basic switch is made for Atlas track plans to fit the 18 inche curve....................tight curves not good for some locos. I hope you can get these to work for you as its money spent. Years ago after many frustrating evenings etc etc a friend gave me a few pecos to try.That really changed my outlook on the layout and everything ran great. I do love the Atlas flex track though! Of course opinions will differ..................this is just mine but i think you will find the main difference is the geometry and maybe some slight difference in construction. You didnt say what code you were using?. Steve

[atsfan]

I used atlas switches for a long time but ended up replacing them all with Walther's switches.
Now I am replacing those with Kato switches.
My simple advice is to not use ANY Atlas switches and spend the extra cash up front and get Peco Swithes. Sell the Atlas ones on ebay or write them off.
I am referring to code 83. Same for code 100.

[ldbennett]

That is all good advice and was given to me recently but.....

This is a trolley layout. It is limited in the space the layout can occupy. The turns MUST be 18 inch radius and the turnout #4 or there is no layout. Pecos minimum turnout is #5 with a 22 inch or so turnout radius. I could not make any sort of a smooth loop with such a difference in the radius of the curves and the radius of the turnout. For other reasons I can not have switch motors under the layout. The motors must be above and the ATLAS ones are small and top side motors.

Would someone please just answer the above questions?

I will use the switches I bought because I have to. I just want to know the answers. It appears there is some hidden wiring in them that keeps both the straight and the curved track of the switch energized all the time and the points are enrgized by touching the rail to which the train is to go. How does this fit into insulated and non-insulated?

Atlas makes reference to a relay they sell to energize the frog or ?? Whats that all about. I'd read about it but Atlas has no info on their site.

LDBennett

[Christian]

The frog on the custom line is metal with a black coating. It can be powered if that is to your advantage. The snap track frog is plastic and shorter. It cannot be powered. The geometry on the custom line is based on the angle of the frog rather than the radius of the branch. Additionally, they are longer since they don't have to fit in snap track formulas. "Insulated," "non insulated" is a Peco trade term, but - in essence - it refers to the frog. Atlas is insulated out of the box, but can be easily powered.

[steveturner]

Geepers i answered your question..................Geometry and powering of frog. You could have looked at Peco set track if space was an issue! Seems tome your doing your home work after the fact!Peco set track swithes especially the curved units are tight.

[steveturner]

The relay is like a switch motor but when it snaps it moves points to connect power to wire to power in this case the frog. Its about the same size as a switch motor and will need togo below. So when you switch the switch the relay will send power to frog as the relay snaps into position. They come with complete instructions and have many uses..............signal lights being one and again powering the frog. They are not cheap. Steve

[Donnell Wells]

Aug 30, 2012 5:18:56 GMT -8 ldbennett said:

I just bought 5 right and one left #4 Atlas Custom Line switches and I'm confused. My intent was to buy a better switch than their standard grade (I already have two right manual switchess on the existing layout that I am expanding). Here's the confusion:

1. When compared to the existing switches there seems little difference except for the pricing. They appear to be of the same quality (??).

2. The plastic insulated frog of the Custom Line switches is about twice as long as the regular one's which MAY preclude my single truck Birney Trolley from being able to negotiate it without stopping. How is that "better"?

3. What does the Custom Line switches have that the regular ones don't?

Can anyone explain how "insulated" vs "non-insulated" works for these turnouts? I am not using a block system as this is a point to point single mainline trolley layout. The entire layout is one block except for sidings which are isolated with a control switch so six trolleys can be stored on the dead end sidings. Only one trolley at a time is let out to run the mainline and the power to the track is straight DC.

Any help in this matter is appreciated.

LDBennett

1. When compared to the existing switches there seems little difference except for the pricing. They appear to be of the same quality (??).

They basically are the same quality; and both are just "okay."

2. The plastic insulated frog of the Custom Line switches is about twice as long as the regular one's which MAY preclude my single truck Birney Trolley from being able to negotiate it without stopping. How is that "better"?

I believe that the Custom Line Turnouts have a metal frog that is insulated from the rest of the turnout. You do have the option to power it, and if you do, it will provide a continuous electrical path through the turnout depending on which way the points are thrown. However, if you decide not to power it, it will remain unpowered, which may cause electrical pickup problems with shorter wheelbase locomotives. (On a side note, if the speed of the trolley is great enough, its momentum may be enough to carry it over the unpowered frog.)

The frog on the Snap-Trak turnout is all plastic. There are jumpers embedded in the plastic frog that routes the power around the frog to each respective rail.

3. What does the Custom Line switches have that the regular ones don't?

Custom-Line turnouts are built similar to prototype turnouts in that the path of the diverging route is straight through the frog. Snap-Trak turnouts have a continuous 18" or 22" radius curve through the frog portion of the turnout to facilitate its placement within a Snap-Trak based layout plan. The curved route of a Snap-Trak turnout effectively replaces a standard curve section of the same radius.

Can anyone explain how "insulated" vs "non-insulated" works for these turnouts? I am not using a block system as this is a point to point single mainline trolley layout. The entire layout is one block except for sidings which are isolated with a control switch so six trolleys can be stored on the dead end sidings. Only one trolley at a time is let out to run the mainline and the power to the track is straight DC.

Both of these turouts are insulated, which means that both routes maintain the correct polarity. The is highly beneficial (especially in a DCC environment) because it negates the need for inserting insulation gaps, unless you plan on isolating tracks, or using some sort of reversing track design, i.e. wye or reverse loop.

A non-insulated turnout, also known as "power routing" turnout, uses "all-metal" frog constuction. It provides excellent electrical pickup as there are no gaps in the frog. With this type of turnout, only the route for which the points are thrown is powered, leaving the alternate route all one polarity. Once the points are thrown in the opposite direction, the other route become powered and the original route is now unpowered.

[Mark R.]

Atlas has two kinds of #4 turnouts - Custom Line and Snap-Switches. The Custom Line has the diverging route leaving on a straight tangent. The Snap Switches have the diverging route as a continuous 18 inch radius to directly replace a single piece of Atlas 18 inch radius Snap Track.

Lay one on top of the other, you will see the Snap Track turnout diverges at a sharper angle than the Custom Line version.

If you are happy with the original switches you've been using (sound like they are Snap Track switches), then by all means continue using them. Out of well over 100 turnouts on my layout, over 75% of them are Atlas turnouts and I have never had a single problem with any of them. They are not the most proto-typical looking and are rather chunky in the detail department, but they are what they they are, and should work just fine.

Aside from getting in to handlaying your own track, the #4 Snap Track switches are about as tight as you are going to find.


Mark.

[ldbennett]

Thank you for the answers that were very enlightening

Christian
steveturner
Donnell Wells
Mark R


When I saw the long black frog I assumed it to be plastic. Just knowing it is metal and how the "relay" fits into the picture clears this all up. I only have the Birney with the single truck that may be a problem but I can run it faster if I have to.

I started yesterday laying out the new track addition and quickly realized that the radius of the turnout for the CustomLine switches was different than the Sanp-Track switches I used before. But I can make them work. I was able to move the layout and gain a little more room. And it is a good thing I did because the CustomLine switches would not have worked without that extra space. It is tedious to try and fit a layout into a small existing space. I am jealous of those of you that live in country where basements are normal. My house in CA is built on a slab of concrete and without the addition of a basement, my layout is extremely limited. But hey, a small layout is better than none!

Now for my complaint: Why does Atlas not explain all this in sales material, on their internet page, or in their catalog? This lack of info seems to me to be prevalent in this industry. When I did model railroading in my youth we had dealers all over the place to explain this all, I suppose, but there is NO dealer even anywhere close to me today and the Internet is my dealer. I'm sure this is true of many model railroaders. This industry need to step up to the plate and provide this info everywhere. Without a forum like this I'd be lost!

Thanks again!

LDBennett

[Brakie]

It is tedious to try and fit a layout into a small existing space.
--------------------------------------
Indeed it is..

My planned layout is a 12" x 10' Industrial Switching Layout(ISL)and I will be using Atlas "snap switches" with the 22" diverging and after testing I found no issues even with 60' cars.

A Walthers 72' center beam went through the diverging route as well at slow switching speed.Wasn't very pretty sight to look at but,it went.

[edwardsutorik]

The good things about a small layout:

You might get done someday.
When you move, it's quite likely you can take your layout. Easily.
You can get more into detailing. Didya know there's HO scale donuts? Are there seated cop figures?
You don't have to reach WAY over something. And break it.
It's "cute".


Ed

[Brakie]

Ed:You might get done someday.
-----------------------------------
Ed,Every small (small=12"x10' or 16"x10')ISL I ever built was finish in 2 months-3 months if there was any refinements.

I then enjoy my ROI on my engines cars,structures etc. ;D

[ldbennett]

In fact, the layout started as a single 8 foot long mainline with a two siding yard for trolley storage. The scene behind the mainline is a 1950's small city. There is a street just behind the mainline with 4 stops for the trolleys including the ends, which reverses the trolley's direction. There are 9 store front building, five of which I bought fully detailed and the rest I built and detailed (but not to the level of the factory assembled buildings). I added an automatic mode to the operation where the trolley reverses automatically, stops automatically and can be left unattended (Circuitron modules).

The layout was completed this month with all the details after six months efffort. I even invited guest over for a Trolley Pizza Party. I had to do NO explaining about anything being unfinished. Every detail was in place and done to the best of my ability.

So it is true if the layout is small enough you can finish it but.....

There was just not enough track. Eight feet is not enough running room, even for a trolley layout. So I shoved the bench down about a foot and am now working on adding a 4 ft x 5 ft addition that will include a complete loop that will cross over itself. It will add about 18 feet of track and give me some more to do. This addition is purely to get more running space for the trolley. It will not be populated with more than one or two new buildings. There are four additional sidings for storage on the layout of all six trolleys (two siding already exist). Switching will allow the trolley to just circulate the loop on the addition forever with no stops.

I am currently redoing the electrical on the original layout with the addition of micro-controller control. I have programmed an Arduino UNO to run the layout with accommodation for the added track. The features are random length stops, randomness in stopping or not at the two intermediate stops, a bell ringing at each startup, and an attempt to add some inertia to stops and start ups. I have not yet successfully integrated it but have bench tested the program. I am chasing a problem I think to be the lack of capacity for one of the power supplies and a new supply is on its way to me. So it is a work in progress. I am also building the bench for the addition.

I look forward to more track to run the trolleys and the addition will be finished over a much longer time period as my other hobbies and interest need some service too.

LDBennett

[Brakie]

Eight feet is not enough running room, even for a trolley layout.
-----------------------------------
Try a 12" x 8' or 12" x 6' ISL..

I have built several of those size layouts over the years 40' cars and a 0-6-0 T or SW7 is a must.

To my mind a 8' trolley layout would be similar to a museum operation.

[atsfan]

[quote author=ldbennett board=hoforum thread=471 post=5829
Now for my complaint: Why does Atlas not explain all this in sales material, on their internet page, or in their catalog? This lack of info seems to me to be prevalent in this industry. When I did model railroading in my youth we had dealers all over the place to explain this all, I suppose, but there is NO dealer even anywhere close to me today and the Internet is my dealer. I'm sure this is true of many model railroaders. This industry need to step up to the plate and provide this info everywhere. Without a forum like this I'd be lost!

Thanks again!

LDBennett[/quote]

You were lucky to even be able to purchase the track. For a long time it was out of stock. The Peco Track DOES come with these instructions and has great info on their website about using it.
Another reason I am converting to it.........

[ldbennett]

I shopped around and everybody on the Internet was out of something Atlas. Finally I tried Train Sets Only and they had it all. I expected a few weeks wait as I get from other Internet dealers but the order came in record time with no back orders.

LDBennett