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Post by SD90 on Jun 8, 2016 22:54:43 GMT -8
I was told to stay away from the first generation of HO scale locomotives from Kato, something about pickup issues. Is this true? If so what models/road names were affected? On my last N scale layout, 95% of my locomotives were Kato, and they all ran flawlessly. I'd like to go with mainly HO scale Kato on this layout too, SD90's,(of course!) AC4400's, C449W's, SD38-2's, SD40's, SD40-2's and GP35's. |
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Post by Gary P on Jun 9, 2016 3:24:24 GMT -8
I recall some issues with the pickup on the initial SD40-2 models. Poor connections, but there is a hard-wire fix for it. If the model is affeted by this, it was a simple fix, and then you had a real smooth running loco. Here is an excellent tutorial by Kelly Duford.... Kato hardwire |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 9, 2016 3:57:39 GMT -8
SD90,
There is absolutely no need to stay away from first generation KATO's; as a rule they are among the best runners.
There was only one first generation KATO that had issues, as Gary mentioned, SD40-2 and it could be redeemed by hardwiring which Gary linked the tutorial. I actually have a couple of them still in the box and may be doing the hard wire myself when I get caught up on some other projects.
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Post by craigz on Jun 9, 2016 5:30:17 GMT -8
SD90, There is absolutely no need to stay away from first generation KATO's; as a rule they are among the best runners. There was only one first generation KATO that had issues, as Gary mentioned, SD40-2 and it could be redeemed by hardwiring which Gary linked the tutorial. I actually have a couple of them still in the box and may be doing the hard wire myself when I get caught up on some other projects. What he said. The first run of SD40-2s used the long phosphor bronze wiper strips in the fashion of the Kato NW2s. This system worked well on the small NW2; not so much on the bigger SD40-2. It was also used on their RS/RSC-2 models; worked OK there but I hardwired mine anyway. And for DCC you'll want to hardwire even the NW2s. The first gen Kato and Atlas/Kato diesels moved with an undefinable smoothness and 'mass' that the later runs didn't seem to possess. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Jun 9, 2016 5:32:03 GMT -8
They're great runners, glassy smooth performance, especially downhill with a load behind them, they don't suffer gear backlash from being pushed faster than they want to go. As mentioned in the GP30 thread they great quite compatible with other makers units like Atlas and Athearn Genesis.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 9, 2016 11:38:54 GMT -8
I have several Kato locomotives that I purchased over 20 years ago. The only problem I ever had was with one SD40-2 that required the wire fix. IMHO my Kato locomotives (from all ages) are the most dependable running locomotives on my layout.
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Post by SD90 on Jun 9, 2016 14:14:36 GMT -8
Thanks for the help everyone!
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Post by mlehman on Jun 9, 2016 21:40:44 GMT -8
SNIP The first run of SD40-2s used the long phosphor bronze wiper strips in the fashion of the Kato NW2s. This system worked well on the small NW2; not so much on the bigger SD40-2. It was also used on their RS/RSC-2 models; worked OK there but I hardwired mine anyway. And for DCC you'll want to hardwire even the NW2s. The first gen Kato and Atlas/Kato diesels moved with an undefinable smoothness and 'mass' that the later runs didn't seem to possess. I don't hardwire my NW2s. I narrowgauge them. The peculiar truck wiper/phosphor bronze pickup system can be recycled with a little creative bending so it picks up well on the narrowed trucks. I do some other mods to make them dual service on the NG (add a steam generator, dynamic brakes, and plows for and aft.) The mass of the Katos gives them unequaled tractive effort.  |
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Post by jacobpaul81 on Jun 10, 2016 4:19:55 GMT -8
The first gen Kato and Atlas/Kato diesels moved with an undefinable smoothness and 'mass' that the later runs didn't seem to possess. Is there an easy way to identify the Atlas / Katos? |
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Post by milgentrains on Jun 10, 2016 4:39:08 GMT -8
The first gen Kato and Atlas/Kato diesels moved with an undefinable smoothness and 'mass' that the later runs didn't seem to possess. Is there an easy way to identify the Atlas / Katos? The Kato/Atlas units come in a yellow box with made in Japan printed on the box. The dead give away is the word Kato molded on the loco's fuel tank. |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 10, 2016 4:41:20 GMT -8
I used to have a couple of the Atlas GP7s with KATO chassis but sold them. IIRC, they had KATO stamped on the bottoms of the gear boxes on each wheel set. IIRC, Atlas used Roco to make their diesels in the 1970's, and sometime in the mid 1980's KATO made some of their diesels and in the 1990's they went to China. Perhaps someone has a better time line and information than my fuzzy memory.
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Post by nightmare0331 on Jun 10, 2016 5:42:03 GMT -8
I recall some issues with the pickup on the initial SD40-2 models. Poor connections, but there is a hard-wire fix for it. If the model is affeted by this, it was a simple fix, and then you had a real smooth running loco. Here is an excellent tutorial by Kelly Duford.... Kato hardwireFor that tutorial, the slots aren't even necessary if you fit the wires carefully...since I usually had the mech torn down for painting, was just easier to cut them in and not have to worry about wires rubbing on the universal. I've seen a *handful* of RS2's and F40PH's which use that same pickup system have intermittent issues(only on a much shorter wheelbase, so it doesn't seem to be as prone to the pickup issue), but the majority of the issues were relegated to the Kato SD40-2 early and SD40-2 snoot variants. I find it amusing that 10 years after I put that article up, it still gets used. Enjoy! KellEy. www.dufordmodelworks.com |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jun 10, 2016 5:48:16 GMT -8
My feeble attempt at hard wiring a Kato SD40-2 following Kelley's tutorial.   |
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Post by nightmare0331 on Jun 10, 2016 6:01:15 GMT -8
My feeble attempt at hard wiring a Kato SD40-2 following Kelley's tutorial. It's not feeble if it works. Enjoy! Kelley. www.dufordmodelworks.com |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jun 10, 2016 6:14:19 GMT -8
My feeble attempt at hard wiring a Kato SD40-2 following Kelley's tutorial. It's not feeble if it works. Enjoy! Kelley. www.dufordmodelworks.comIt works very well and with YOUR help, thank you very much!!!!!, I have replaced the incorrect truck frames too!!! Thank you again! |
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Post by craigz on Jun 10, 2016 6:17:44 GMT -8
The first gen Kato and Atlas/Kato diesels moved with an undefinable smoothness and 'mass' that the later runs didn't seem to possess. Is there an easy way to identify the Atlas / Katos? As the others said - the Atlas/Kato (Katlas?) are all yellow box...but not all yellow box Atlas is Kato. In the 1970s Roco made the GP38, GP40, FP7, SD24 and SD35 that come in yellow boxes. In the 1980s (maybe into the early 90s?) Roco made the S2 models. All the Roco models will say Austria on the bottom; they were all a revelation at the time and the S2 will pull like unholy stink. The Kato models started with the RS-3, then the RSD-4/5, RS11, RSD12 (which is too short but I digress), C424, C425, and GP7. All will say Japan and/or Kato on the bottom. All are superb runners, just superb. I still have a substantial stash of them. The shells need some work (cast on grabs mostly) but the mechanisms are still second to none. Still. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jun 10, 2016 8:04:43 GMT -8
I'm doing some small modifications to some Kato's. The base model is good and you can make it really nice. The Swiss watch drive is maybe the best in the model railroad industry. BN EMD SD40-2 #1876   Northern Pacific EMD SD45 #3600   |
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Post by Brakie on Jun 11, 2016 7:48:09 GMT -8
For what its worth and it may not be worth a plug penny my Atlas/Kato GP7s,RS11s and RS1s runs as smooth as my Kato GP35 and all are top of the line in the smooth operation department.
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Post by espeenut on Jun 11, 2016 8:40:55 GMT -8
...mark me down as another extremely happy owner and operator of a fleet of Kato's. GP35's, SD40's, SD45's, SD40-2's from early and mid production, SD90403MAC's, C44-9W's and AC4400CW's. Pleased as punch with all of them, not a single issue ever with any of them...
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Post by SD90 on Jun 11, 2016 10:22:36 GMT -8
...mark me down as another extremely happy owner and operator of a fleet of Kato's. GP35's, SD40's, SD45's, SD40-2's from early and mid production, SD90403MAC's, C44-9W's and AC4400CW's. Pleased as punch with all of them, not a single issue ever with any of them... Good to hear! |
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 11, 2016 10:52:41 GMT -8
I believe the yellow box Kato drive Atlas diesels also differ in having molded grabs which China re-issues have as a separate part.
Some Con-Cor NW2's (old Revell shell) and all their MP15s also have a Kato drive, as do some Stewart diesels.
I've never opened up an Atlas China, do they just clone the Kato drive like Life-Like initially cloned the Athearn drive? I've always kind of presumed that.
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Post by TBird1958 on Jun 11, 2016 11:09:05 GMT -8
I believe the yellow box Kato drive Atlas diesels also differ in having molded grabs which China re-issues have as a separate part. Some Con-Cor NW2's (old Revell shell) and all their MP15s also have a Kato drive, as do some Stewart diesels. I've never opened up an Atlas China, do they just clone the Kato drive like Life-Like initially cloned the Athearn drive? I've always kind of presumed that.
On the Atlas re-issue China GP-7 they re-did the handrails and the truck sideframe, they run very well with Kato units.
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Post by Spikre on Jun 11, 2016 11:37:58 GMT -8
 the Atlas China C424 has slideing U Joints similar to 80s Athearn. the originals used Dogbones from the flywheel to the gear tower. and of course the Motor is Chinese,not Kato,similar to the Cans in the U36/33/34CH locos. this is from a late 90s C424,so not sure what later ones use ?? Spikre
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Post by jacobpaul81 on Jun 12, 2016 6:04:55 GMT -8
Is there an easy way to identify the Atlas / Katos? As the others said - the Atlas/Kato (Katlas?) are all yellow box...but not all yellow box Atlas is Kato. In the 1970s Roco made the GP38, GP40, FP7, SD24 and SD35 that come in yellow boxes. In the 1980s (maybe into the early 90s?) Roco made the S2 models. All the Roco models will say Austria on the bottom; they were all a revelation at the time and the S2 will pull like unholy stink. The Kato models started with the RS-3, then the RSD-4/5, RS11, RSD12 (which is too short but I digress), C424, C425, and GP7. All will say Japan and/or Kato on the bottom. All are superb runners, just superb. I still have a substantial stash of them. The shells need some work (cast on grabs mostly) but the mechanisms are still second to none. Still. All very good info. Sounds like the Karo Atlas are all earlier models than my Railroad I'm planning. I did pick up a Kato GP35 model for $50 this weekend. That seems to be the going rate for the older models in the common roads. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jun 16, 2016 11:36:36 GMT -8
The first run of SD40-2s used the long phosphor bronze wiper strips in the fashion of the Kato NW2s. This system worked well on the small NW2; not so much on the bigger SD40-2. It was also used on their RS/RSC-2 models; worked OK there but I hardwired mine anyway. And for DCC you'll want to hardwire even the NW2s. So I take it you hardwired your NW2s? I have one that needs the DCC treatment; I think it will go to a friend who does sound installs in small units. |
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