Cargill TLDX 4427 covered hoppers

[pltbrnch]

Hello all,

Does anyone know the proper number series of the TLDX yellow "Cargill" 4427 low side covered hoppers with the large circle logo on the sides? We're they painted in that scheme when new, or were these just repainted from the old mint green Cargill scheme?

I've seen prototype pics of the high side 4427 (proto) hoppers with the big circle logo, (built in the late 60s after the low side cars), but not found any pics of the low side cars. It seems there was a great many of theses cars in yellow Cargill paint, but without the large circular panel on the sides (ala Exactrail). Considering a decal job on an upgraded old Walthers kit.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Rick

[riogrande]

You mean number series like the ExactRail rails car?



I'd be interested to know too. I do know D&RGW hauled these Cargill cars regularly in the late 1960's and throughout the 1970's and I've seen them mixed with the older mint green Cargill scheme. They passed through Grande Junction.

This isn't a close broadside photo, but you can see the low-hip yellow Cargill's in this train with the small circle logo's on each end of the car (by then the cars with the large center logo must have been uncommon):



Personally I'd like to see ExactRail offer their low-hip 4427 with the center justified large circle herald - IIRC those were in between the mint green version and the version with two small circle heralds on either end of the sides.

[Christian]

Jan 18, 2017 0:00:56 GMT -8 pltbrnch said:

Does anyone know the proper number series of the TLDX yellow "Cargill" 4427 low side covered hoppers with the large circle logo on the sides? We're they painted in that scheme when new, or were these just repainted from the old mint green Cargill scheme?

I can't answer the question. A while back when I did my Walthers update I googlefooed enough to find a suitable prototype photographed in 1984 - my date. It has a none of the above color/letter scheme. In my little reference file of photos from the Internet suitable for early 1980s I have a number range of 2505 to 5040. Both green and gold. All with little logos and marks from removing the large center logo. I have a feeling that you could do any combination you wish and that there would be a prototype. I'd look to the Elwood site to find a photo in the date range you wish to model.

Elwood site: www.rr-fallenflags.org/

Look at Pullman Leasing and then the number you wish to model.  BUT, I'll save you the trouble.  None of the photos have the large logo.  AND, the number range I mentioned above includes a lot of different leasing assignments other than Cargill.

So, my answer doesn't get you anywhere.  Sorry about that. 

Here's a revised Walthers in mint green!

[TBird1958]

Jan 18, 2017 0:00:56 GMT -8 pltbrnch said:

Hello all,

Does anyone know the proper number series of the TLDX yellow "Cargill" 4427 low side covered hoppers with the large circle logo on the sides? We're they painted in that scheme when new, or were these just repainted from the old mint green Cargill scheme?

I've seen prototype pics of the high side 4427 (proto) hoppers with the big circle logo, (built in the late 60s after the low side cars), but not found any pics of the low side cars. It seems there was a great many of theses cars in yellow Cargill paint, but without the large circular panel on the sides (ala Exactrail). Considering a decal job on an upgraded old Walthers kit.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Rick

Rick,
 According to James Kincaide's Pullman Standard Morning Sun book the the Ph.I low side cars were built in two batches, I don't have the entire number series for the first group but they in the TLDX 25XX range, they were delivered in the Mint Green, the ER car would represent a repaint. A second group of 178 Ph.I low side cars were delivered in July of 1966, they had the large round logo on a fiberglass panel and were painted yellow/black and Pullman's standard paint mask at the time, numbers were TLDX 13100-13277. The large panels could be problematic,  as time went on they sometimes detached themselves from the car side. As Jim mentions they were common on the Rio Grande - There's a shot of several of the cars in train, one of which has lost the middle segment of the round logo panel in one of their volumes on the D&RGW.    

Edit: After doing a bit more due diligence I've found that the TLDX 131XX cars are not 4427 Ph.II cars, but rather the very similar 4475, so disregard that second note, I'll see if I can't find some additional notes re the 4427.










   

[riogrande]

As Mark mentioned, the large panels seemed to break apart and fall off over time - and parts of the panels would be missing. I've got the DVD Rio Grande Odyssey, which has some scenes of trains going through the Grande Junction yard and you can see a Cargill hopper with half a logo panel missing. I've seen other photo's like Mark Mentioned too in some of my books. It would be interesting to model one or two of these cars.

[lajrmdlr]

Were Any of these Cargill hoppers used to carry salt? Modeling a Cargill salt industry (nee Lindsey Salt) on my layout. Also would like to know what other kinds of hoppers (cylindrical, ACF Center Flow, others?) were used for salt. Have heard 2 bay open top hoppers were used for salt in 1970s.

[riogrande]

My guess is all covered hoppers for salt. I used to drive by a salt facility along side Rt 390 south of Rochester New York called the Retsof Salt Mine on the way down to Pennsylvania during the 2005-2008 time frame. I took a few "drive-by" photo's and they used a lot of 2-bay covered hoppers and a few 3-bay's. I found a photo from that same mine online, the 2-bay looks typical of what I photographed:

[pltbrnch]

Thanks for the comments, I've found the low-hip "circle" series I was looking for (TLDX 6138 - 6162) per below (with the post 4-66 low brakewheel and no side ladders). So I'll butcher up my old Walthers kit to model one.

That brings up a second point...I'm assuming the "mint green" Cargill 4427's were repainted into the yellow scheme (ala "Exactrail cars") fairly early after being built? It seems like by the 1970's all you saw were the yellow Cargill hoppers..not much of the mint green cars.

Rick

Attachments:

[lvrr325]

Anthracite Railroads in the 70s Vol. 3 shows Lehigh Valley trains with a number of the green Cargill cars in the 1973-75 era, although they seem to be center flows and cylindrical cars. Looks like the only thing close in HO right now is Bachmann is running that scheme on theirs.

Salt tends to be corrosive to the metal so while I've seen 3-bay cars in cuts off the G&W they usually appeared to be well worn, older cars, for a time some patched Milwaukee Road cars appeared regularly.

[lajrmdlr]

Accurail & Intermountain also make green Cargill ACF hoppers.

[lvrr325]

Accurail once did a run of grey cars on their ACF 3-bay but that's the only one their website shows, and it's not current.

When Accurail makes a car they run off X number of them and that's it. Once in a while they re-issue them, some releases they make three numbers.

[lajrmdlr]

Here's four of my Cargills. The top two are Intermountain & bottom two are Accurail. Use to have Bachmanns but detail wise these are much better.