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Post by dharris on Apr 12, 2017 16:54:13 GMT -8
Was it a new car?
I have bought out of state new cars and the dealer took care of everything.
The plates arrived in the mail.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 12, 2017 17:08:30 GMT -8
Was it a new car? I have bought out of state new cars and the dealer took care of everything. The plates arrived in the mail. No, it's a 2015 BMW from a dealership down in the south. It's a rare type so hard to find in these parts. They are shipping it later this week. I have to tag it up here. But there was a bunch of haggling and a few things I had to yell about. |
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Post by dharris on Apr 12, 2017 18:19:00 GMT -8
Was it a new car? I have bought out of state new cars and the dealer took care of everything. The plates arrived in the mail. No, it's a 2015 BMW from a dealership down in the south. It's a rare type so hard to find in these parts. They are shipping it later this week. I have to tag it up here. But there was a bunch of haggling and a few things I had to yell about. You and Al Mayo with the BMW's.........  |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 12, 2017 18:55:05 GMT -8
No, it's a 2015 BMW from a dealership down in the south. It's a rare type so hard to find in these parts. They are shipping it later this week. I have to tag it up here. But there was a bunch of haggling and a few things I had to yell about. You and Al Mayo with the BMW's......... I haven't owned a BMW in nearly a decade but it's funny you bring Al up because I was at his booth in Amherst and I saw his girl give him the BMW key fob and that actually reminded me to consider a BMW in my car search which was going on for about a month prior. But I mentioned then that my last BMW was trouble, but after researching these days they are much better and the factory warranty plus an extended CPO warranty is still in place for many years to come of the ones I searched. I was down to Jaguar F type convertible or a BMW convertible and my wife quickly reminded me that an F type convertible was far less practical than a 6 series convertible because the 6 series can fit more luggage and technically 4 people. So then after that discussion it was nailing down details like type, color combos and options. That was quick but the search was slow because of the combination of what I wanted. Delivery is next week! I'm more excited than most train arrivals  -James |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 3:28:31 GMT -8
I haven't owned a BMW in nearly a decade -James The Air Force must pay better than it did when my dad was in, and he retired a Lt Colonel. With a wife and kids he wouldn't have ever been able to afford a BMW. It was always modest priced family cars. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Apr 13, 2017 4:51:11 GMT -8
James, thank you for serving our country. I'm glad you're paid well enough to get what you want to drive.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 5:03:23 GMT -8
I haven't owned a BMW in nearly a decade -James The Air Force must pay better than it did when my dad was in, and he retired a Lt Colonel. With a wife and kids he wouldn't have ever been able to afford a BMW. It was always modest priced family cars. Yes, the late 90's through mid 2000's had some massive pay increases and other pays that aren't reflected in the basic pay chart alone. You may recall when the huge media controversy of military people on welfare happened in the 90's. Because only the basic pay portion of our income shows up, some people with many children qualified for welfare so swift action was taken to correct it. Although, it wasn't as bad as it seemed because the other portions of pay we get are not taxable or reportable. Many of my brand new guys can have a take home pay of $50,000 or more depending on many factors. Even what branch you're in and how they compensate for trips differs. The military is not my only income though, I also have investment properties that provide income. My wife and I saved and invested smart when we were young which boosts the income significantly. I am a more senior ranking guy so the pay is much better than the new guys. My grandfather was Air Force from 1955 to 1979 and was amazed at the pay now. But if all that fell through and I had to rely solely on my military pay I would still be able to afford a BMW and maintain my current lifestyle, but my rate of monthly savings input would decrease. My wife is a scientist but is nearly qualified to be an M.D. She just tires of the different state requirements to finish but she's a stay at home Mom and has been for 6 years, so it's all on me. She goes back to work in 2019. -James P.S. BMW's aren't as expensive as they seem. The one I bought lost 50% of it's value since it was new. If you buy one 3-4 years old you're looking at 80% off its original value. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 5:43:53 GMT -8
I recall hearing about the massive increases for government pay - as least for civilians - the reasoning being that they couldn't get quality employee's because the private market offered far higher salaries and benefits there it was a tough sell for a well educated person, some with major student debt, to go into public service. The military may have somewhat followed suite?
The government seems very generous these days compared to the 50's 60's and 70's when my dad was an officer. Don't get me wrong, I wanted for nothing and we had a very decent life, traveled a good bit etc. My dad is still alive and receives a very generous, large benefit for some service connected medical related things, many thousands per month and much of it tax free. He began receiving his retirement pay immediately after 22 years of service in 1973 and is still receiving it at 86 years of age, plus all the those service connected VA benefits. Not that I'm complaining but if there are 10s or 100's of thousands of retired military after only 20 years, it must be a huge cost to provide all those benefits. I have heard that now after retiring after 20 years, you don't start collecting retirement pay right away, say at the age of 40 or 42, like my dad did.
My wife worked for 3 1/2 years as a care giver to a family here; the father was Air Force and earned his PhD on the government's nickel. He had been in at least 20 years and then they were going to send him overseas to a dangerous area so he retired rather than go and became a government contractor for an agency which won't be named, where he could name his salary. Suffice it to say it was a very generous pay rate. Now they of course qualified for government free tuition for a family member and the state provided total coverage for full time care giver for their handy-capped child. My wife was like, he makes a large salary yet they still got major money in benefits and why wasn't this means tested. My wife and I struggled for the first few years we were married, and couldn't qualify for spit, what with me making huge child support payments and having to live on 59% of my pay that was left over each month, she came from a very poor background and came here legally and yet doesn't qualify for any help of course as no new legal immigrant does when you follow the legal rules. She has been really baffled by how many get benefits without means testing or just by jumping over the boarder. But, who said the world is a fair place? Her quality of life has improved vs. England despite the uphill battle. But I digress....
I imagine military/gov pay can be like a pendulum too. As for cars, yeah, my dad told me back in the 1970's that the moment you drive a new car off the lot, they devalue but a good amount. BMW's or Mercedes may be more affordable used, but I bet repairs and maintenance is a good deal higher than Toyota's or Fords! You can probably get a decent used Toyota or Ford for $12-14; how much would a decent used BMW equivalent cost (year, mileage)? Me, with a daughter in college and a second kid living with me on the dole - my wife and I are driving two 10 year old cars and keeping expenses minimal - except for my train habit, which I allow my self a modest monthly budget for. Of course cost of living in NoVA is very high and that doesn't help.
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Post by grahamline on Apr 13, 2017 10:32:05 GMT -8
Repairs and maintenance depend a lot on the condition of the car you buy and who you find to work on it. When my son was in high school from 2000-04, we bought an '84 318i that he could drive and I'd also enjoy. Oil changes etc were no more than anything else. The car was very reliable and we kept it at 10 years, until it rolled over 200,000 miles.
The key was finding a good independent shop. One in town was incompetent, another took three days to do anything, and the third was cheaper than both, more efficient, and had a great deal of experience. The newer models have some parts that are extortionately priced .... I ended up with a VW Golf.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 10:40:29 GMT -8
I recall hearing about the massive increases for government pay - as least for civilians - the reasoning being that they couldn't get quality employee's because the private market offered far higher salaries and benefits there it was a tough sell for a well educated person, some with major student debt, to go into public service. The military may have somewhat followed suite? The government seems very generous these days compared to the 50's 60's and 70's when my dad was an officer. Don't get me wrong, I wanted for nothing and we had a very decent life, traveled a good bit etc. My dad is still alive and receives a very generous, large benefit for some service connected medical related things, many thousands per month and much of it tax free. He began receiving his retirement pay immediately after 22 years of service in 1973 and is still receiving it at 86 years of age, plus all the those service connected VA benefits. Not that I'm complaining but if there are 10s or 100's of thousands of retired military after only 20 years, it must be a huge cost to provide all those benefits. I have heard that now after retiring after 20 years, you don't start collecting retirement pay right away, say at the age of 40 or 42, like my dad did. My wife worked for 3 1/2 years as a care giver to a family here; the father was Air Force and earned his PhD on the government's nickel. He had been in at least 20 years and then they were going to send him overseas to a dangerous area so he retired rather than go and became a government contractor for an agency which won't be name here he could name his salary. Suffice it to say it was a very generous pay rate. Now they of course qualified for government free tuition for a family member and the state provided total coverage for full time care giver for their handy-capped child. My wife was like, he makes a large salary yet they still got major money in benefits and why wasn't this means tested. My wife and I struggled for the first few years we were married, and couldn't qualify for spit, what with me making huge child support payments and having to live on 59% of my pay that was left over each month, she came from a very poor background and came here legally and yet doesn't qualify for any help of course as no new legal immigrant does when you follow the legal rules. She has been really baffled by how many get benefits without means testing or just by jumping over the boarder. But, who said the world is a fair place? Her quality of life has improved vs. England despite the uphill battle. But I digress.... I imagine military/gov pay can be like a pendulum too. As for cars, yeah, my dad told me back in the 1970's that the moment you drive a new car off the lot, they devalue but a good amount. BMW's or Mercedes may be more affordable used, but I bet repairs and maintenance is a good deal higher than Toyota's or Fords! You can probably get a decent used Toyota or Ford for $12-14; how much would a decent used BMW equivalent cost (year, mileage)? Me, with a daughter in college and a second kid living with me on the dole - my wife and I are driving two 10 year old cars and keeping expenses minimal - except for my train habit, which I allow my self a modest monthly budget for. Of course cost of living in NoVA is very high and that doesn't help. Your Dad is right, there are great benefits. I still fall under the instant retirement pay when I retire at 37 years old and will collect my pension at the time of my retirement. But starting in 2018, anyone entering after January 1st (I think) is under a new retirement system that is complicated and doesn't have the same result as ours. This will ease the burden of the government. There is a pendulum of pay increases going from low to high, but there are grandfather clauses to prevent a pay cut at any time. As for the BMW, it is one owner and low miles which means much of its factory warranty is still in tact. Then they also put an extended warranty on it until April of 2021 which is quite a ways off. It fits easily in my budget and I also save aggressively so if I have a big bill here or there, it's not a big deal. Take care, James |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 10:42:33 GMT -8
What I am referring to are labor rates and parts prices (on the average). My assumption would be that some makes of course would be significantly higher for labor rates and parts than others, such as a BMW over a Toyota. My assumption could be wrong however but I have stayed away from higher end cars for budgetary reasons all my life. The difference of a 4 or 5 thousand or more is not insignificant to me.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 10:48:20 GMT -8
What I am referring to are labor rates and parts prices (on the average). My assumption would be that some makes of course would be significantly higher for labor rates and parts than others, such as a BMW over a Toyota. My assumption could be wrong however but I have stayed away from higher end cars for budgetary reasons all my life. The difference of a 4 or 5 thousand or more is not insignificant to me. No you're definitely right about labor rates. That's why there was no way I was buying one without a warranty. |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -8
James, thank you for serving our country. I'm glad you're paid well enough to get what you want to drive. Thanks man, it's neither here nor there but there is still a stigma that the military isn't paid well out there. I have encountered the same thing with my reviews. In the first 4 years I aggressively bought trains, plus continue at a fast pace and people kept asking how I could afford it on a military salary. So I try to explain to those who ask the military isn't bad with pay anymore. Some have argued it's even too good. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 10:58:20 GMT -8
As for the BMW, it is one owner and low miles which means much of its factory warranty is still in tact. Then they also put an extended warranty on it until April of 2021 which is quite a ways off. It fits easily in my budget and I also save aggressively so if I have a big bill here or there, it's not a big deal. Take care, James I save aggressively too for the same reasons which is why during some leaner years my train budget was very limited; I heard on the radio something that sounded rather shocking, that something like 40% of the US population would not be able to handle a "one-off" $400 expense (i.e. 40% are living month to month). But likely some of that group could save enough to handle the "one-off" but are spending on things they could live without. In my case, I can live without the BMW to keep my expenses lower - hah hah. My daughter graduates with her bachelors in biomedical engineering this summer and thankfully has a job waiting for her at Lockheed Martin so that will be like getting a super size raise for me! But rather than use that on an upscale car, we'll try to look for a better home in a better area, hopefully with a bigger basement for trains! COL in northern Virginia is quite high - that's definitely factor.  |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 10:58:23 GMT -8
I haven't owned a BMW in nearly a decade -James The Air Force must pay better than it did when my dad was in, and he retired a Lt Colonel. With a wife and kids he wouldn't have ever been able to afford a BMW. It was always modest priced family cars. Sorry for all the separate replies, but just for a comparison to today's military pay. Your Dad if active TODAY at Lt Col with 20 years would be pulling in approximately $11,400 per month or $136,800 per year before taxes while still on active duty. Those figures are based on my area in Omaha, Nebraska where cost of living isn't bad (except property taxes are insane and home values are costly for what you get). Other areas such as East or West coast or big cities would be significantly higher. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 11:12:40 GMT -8
The Air Force must pay better than it did when my dad was in, and he retired a Lt Colonel. With a wife and kids he wouldn't have ever been able to afford a BMW. It was always modest priced family cars. Sorry for all the separate replies, but just for a comparison to today's military pay. Your Dad if active TODAY at Lt Col with 20 years would be pulling in approximately $11,400 per month or $136,800 per year before taxes while still on active duty. Those figures are based on my area in Omaha, Nebraska where cost of living isn't bad (except property taxes are insane and home values are costly for what you get). Other areas such as East or West coast or big cities would be significantly higher. Holy smokes, no wonder we are borrowing so much from China these days! Yes, local COL is part of the equation. My memory is fuzzy but IIRC my dads salary back around 1971 was around $26k - but I don't know what that is adjusted for inflation today. He was a navigator starting on KC97's, moved to KC135's in SAC and was in Korat Thailand for a year on C121's, then switched MAC on C133's and finished on C141's (MAC and SAC are gone now IIRC and all changed). He had a desk job last 2 years and that's when we moved to Davis about 30 minutes commute north of Travis AFB - they bought a 4 bedroom 2 car garage home there which at the time was IIRC in the low 30's. Funny thing is now, I think my dads total benefits, retirement, VA medical at 90% adds up IIRC roughly 90k annual and some of that non-taxed. Most people retired in their mid 80's would be on a very limited fixed income and struggling to pay for meds. Yes, the military ain't what it used to be! |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 11:30:31 GMT -8
Well you do have to realize that less than 1% of the population will ever serve in the military and then less than 10% of those will retire. So it's a pretty small pool of people collecting pensions compared to the general population.
The bigger costs in defense spending is equipment such as aircraft, ships, tanks, etc.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 11:33:36 GMT -8
Well you do have to realize that less than 1% of the population will ever serve in the military and then less than 10% of those will retire. So it's a pretty small pool of people collecting pensions compared to the general population. The bigger costs in defense spending is equipment such as aircraft, ships, tanks, etc. I realize yes, that the military has downsized a good deal in the past since the 1980's. I'm thinking more on the effect of those in the military who retired in the period before that. I would imagine the percentage of the population that served in the era my dad was serving was substantially higher. |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 11:37:33 GMT -8
Well you do have to realize that less than 1% of the population will ever serve in the military and then less than 10% of those will retire. So it's a pretty small pool of people collecting pensions compared to the general population. The bigger costs in defense spending is equipment such as aircraft, ships, tanks, etc. I realize yes, that the military has downsized a good deal in the past since the 1980's. I'm thinking more on the effect of those in the military who retired in the period before that. I would imagine the percentage of the population that served in the era my dad was serving was substantially higher. For all living Americans only 2% have served according to a 2015 article. For me its time for a car. Bought a nice house a few years ago with a substantial amount down. Both kids have college funds done to take them through a 6 year degree of their choice, wife drives a nice newer SUV with no car note so it's time for something nice for me. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 12:34:07 GMT -8
That 2% figure is that total for all time? I imagine the percent served has fluctuated during different periods of time (e.g. surely it was higher say in 1944 during WWII when women were building tanks and airplanes and the men were overseas fighting the Germans or Japanese).
I have to say, this isn't my dad's military - they provide an upper-middle class lifestyle from how it sounds. Now I really regret not joining the Air Force back when I had finished my bachelor of science degree, it was something I had considered - the USAF was even a good life back before they upgraded the standard of living. Geology didn't provide me that life, rather it's been a real roller coaster with job market over the years. Heck, military life sounds better than many private sector careers - certainly more stable. I finally gave into the Schwartz sort of and am not being paid by the tax payer just like you and am a "beltway bandit" and "serving those who server our country" is the motto of the agency I work for now.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 16:01:28 GMT -8
That 2% figure is that total for all time? I imagine the percent served has fluctuated during different periods of time (e.g. surely it was higher say in 1944 during WWII when women were building tanks and airplanes and the men were overseas fighting the Germans or Japanese). I have to say, this isn't my dad's military - they provide an upper-middle class lifestyle from how it sounds. Now I really regret not joining the Air Force back when I had finished my bachelor of science degree, it was something I had considered - the USAF was even a good life back before they upgraded the standard of living. Geology didn't provide me that life, rather it's been a real roller coaster with job market over the years. Heck, military life sounds better than many private sector careers - certainly more stable. I finally gave into the Schwartz sort of and am not being paid by the tax payer just like you and am a "beltway bandit" and "serving those who server our country" is the motto of the agency I work for now. Pay is good, but it's not everything. I have lots of friends that work on the outside and although it's harder to make a buck there are also far less inconveniences. Deployments away from wife/kids (although slowed recently since I've had kids and gotten promoted), taking physical fitness tests, getting told I'm traveling to locations for training without any say so in the matter regardless of my rank, moves, etc...etc. My analysis is it's easier pay in some aspects and much harder pay in others. It really depends on branch of service, job and many more factors. -James |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 16:29:14 GMT -8
That 2% figure is that total for all time? I imagine the percent served has fluctuated during different periods of time (e.g. surely it was higher say in 1944 during WWII when women were building tanks and airplanes and the men were overseas fighting the Germans or Japanese). I have to say, this isn't my dad's military - they provide an upper-middle class lifestyle from how it sounds. Now I really regret not joining the Air Force back when I had finished my bachelor of science degree, it was something I had considered - the USAF was even a good life back before they upgraded the standard of living. Geology didn't provide me that life, rather it's been a real roller coaster with job market over the years. Heck, military life sounds better than many private sector careers - certainly more stable. I finally gave into the Schwartz sort of and am not being paid by the tax payer just like you and am a "beltway bandit" and "serving those who server our country" is the motto of the agency I work for now. That 2% is for just those still alive today (Which are the only ones collecting a check). |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 16:37:11 GMT -8
I hear you. My dad, when he was away on TDY flying would be gone for 10 days at a time. He was refueling B52s which were orbiting outside of Russian airspace during the cold war era in case they were called to do the unthinkable like in the movie Failsafe. Those were the days eh?
The father being away a lot was normal for me growing up most of my younger years. He was stationed in Karat Thailand for a full year and then last few years at Travis. I don't have any roots because of the military life we led growing up, born in San Andonio TX, then Bunker Hill AFB (now Grissom) for 4 years, Massachusetts for training then San Fernando Valley while he was in Karat and then Travis and finally Davis CA.
Years later after my first divorce my parent wondered if the upbringing of their four kids with no roots put them at a disadvantage. The reason being that in most cases, whoever we ended up dating and marrying, it tended to be on their turf and terms, since we didn't have any roots or place to call home as military brats. I can see their point. OTOH, as a military brat I got to see many places and do many things that I might not otherwise have done had I grown up in one place. In many many ways I had a "rich" upbringing, even if we didn't have fancy cars I have a lot of great experiences and memorys to look back on.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 13, 2017 16:38:42 GMT -8
That 2% is for just those still alive today (Which are the only ones collecting a check). That makes sense. However there is a whole of of past leading up to the present when I would hazard the percentage was higher - it would be interesting to know how that affected things. |
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Post by dharris on Apr 13, 2017 17:41:27 GMT -8
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 17:52:52 GMT -8
Indeed, retirement is based on base pay and rank the last three years and starts at 50% of your base pay and goes up 2.5% per each year after 20 you stay in. One area not noted is disability. Most service members incur some sort of injury during service which generates either a percentage of tax free payment or a separately generated VA check. One of my guys who just retired left with about $5000 a month after his disability was addressed and he wasn't that high ranking. So it's a mixed bag. |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Apr 13, 2017 17:58:47 GMT -8
Indeed, retirement is based on base pay and rank the last three years and starts at 50% of your base pay and goes up 2.5% per each year after 20 you stay in. One area not noted is disability. Most service members incur some sort of injury during service which generates either a percentage of tax free payment or a separately generated VA check. One of my guys who just retired left with about $5000 a month after his disability was addressed and he wasn't that high ranking. So it's a mixed bag. That 2% is for just those still alive today (Which are the only ones collecting a check). That makes sense. However there is a whole of of past leading up to the present when I would hazard the percentage was higher - it would be interesting to know how that affected things. Currently, only 0.4% are serving in the military. Only 17% of that 0.4% retire. So roughly .0068% of the population retires from the military per generation. That is rough math but good enough for me after some basic research. As for time away, deployments are much worse than 10 days at a time these days. Try 60, 90, 120, 180 or even 365 days away from your family at a time. That is a reality for many people in the military and even the Air Force. I was just gone for 35 days for just a course. -James |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 14, 2017 1:48:44 GMT -8
Other than current statistics on percentages etc. which I am not up on, I am aware of away-time, coming from a military family, who knew many other military families; I realize many in the modern world don't have a clue about military life so you may find yourself in a position of educating folks. Some things have changed since my dad retired like much better pay and fewer numbers serving after the draw-down and many base closures during the past 20 years, but some things aren't so different either, like the away-time.
My wife's current boss is PhD and military. Both he and his wife (ex-military and PhD) are psychologists who work with PTSD soldiers and her son is planning on volunteering for a wounded warrior retreat on the west side of DC. There seem to be some really good things like that around here. As you might imagine, you almost can't swing a cat around here without hitting someone in the military or ex-military.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 14, 2017 1:55:33 GMT -8
One area not noted is disability. Most service members incur some sort of injury during service which generates either a percentage of tax free payment or a separately generated VA check. One of my guys who just retired left with about $5000 a month after his disability was addressed and he wasn't that high ranking. So it's a mixed bag. Yes on the VA disability. That's why my dads income is quite high. I think he is 90% qualified with service related issues. FYI, my sister is a civilian working for the VA as an attorney for the past 14 years on appeals cases. Veterans who apply for VA benefits at the local level who are denied, when they appeal, those cases come here to DC and my sister and a cadre of her colleagues essentially act as judges and review the appeals cases and decide if any should be granted or remain denied. If they do their jobs right, the real judge reviews and rubber stamps the decisions and they are denied or granted. My sister advised my dad on what he needed to do and he went through the process himself and ended up with something like 90% benefits, some of the pay is tax free as you mentioned. Fortunately he has remained very active and at least visibly in fairly good health for a guy in his mid 80's - it probably doesn't hurt that he, mostly, has led a pretty clean life. I did smoke until his mid-30's but almost everyone smoke back then. It also doesn't hurt having the best military medical facilities nearby which is why my dad decided to retire to this area as a vet. |
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Post by santafe49 on Apr 14, 2017 17:33:38 GMT -8
Very interesting read.
I had to look and in 1969, when i was an E-2, my pay was $129/month. And the later part of the year, i got an additional untaxed $75/month combat pay, for the months i was in Viet Nam. On my last SSA printout, before i retired, it shows i made $1548 for the year of 1969. That was my first full year in the Navy.
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