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Post by The Ferro Kid on May 16, 2017 9:46:26 GMT -8
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Post by Brakie on May 16, 2017 10:34:56 GMT -8
If I needed a George I would drop the RPO and add two mail/express storage baggage cars and shorten the train to five coaches, a dinner(later reduce to a snack bar) and one or maybe two through Pullmans. This would be the Ashland(Ky) to Detroit section of the George formerly known as the Sportsman. By the Mid 60s this train would be two E-8A, 2-3 baggage mail storage and three coaches.
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Post by ddatrainman on May 16, 2017 11:58:12 GMT -8
Ooh loksound very nice.
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Post by el3672 on May 16, 2017 15:01:11 GMT -8
Great News for all the Phoebe Snow fans!!!!! Division Point just announced in their Latest news.....quote
"The Division Point will do the Phoebe Snow in 2 versions (TBD), but one early and a later EL version as it ran after the merger. It’s a great train, and has never been done….running both Budd cars for the Diner and Lounge, and ACF lightweight coaches and sleepers. There are also a couple of headend cars that are unique rebuilds of heavy weight cars used earlier and then, right to the end of service. (Just bye the bye, we are doing a Heavy weight Lackawanna Pullman in the current run of cars being built now!) So to make a long story long……you NKP guys will get your “through sleepers” and us Lackawanna fans will get a beautiful train!! Love it when a plan comes together. BTW, the ACF cars were sold off to the D&H, and the LIRR, and both will be offered to boot."
www.divisionpoint.com/site/special-hot-off-the-wire-26-april-17/
If some of you are unfamiliar with Division Point Brass, these guys knock it outta the park. Show case models with excellent detail, paint and interiors. Once in a life time opportunity, I'll jump on board for the later EL set.
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Post by dharris on May 16, 2017 16:02:34 GMT -8
I have to wonder in 2017, how many people are leaping at the chance to purchase a C&O George Washington Train. Diminishing returns sets in.
I agree, if you are a Phoebe Snow foamer, sell the car, donate a kidney, or whatever it takes to buy a division point set.
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Post by Brakie on May 16, 2017 18:30:58 GMT -8
I have to wonder in 2017, how many people are leaping at the chance to purchase a C&O George Washington Train. Diminishing returns sets in. I agree, if you are a Phoebe Snow foamer, sell the car, donate a kidney, or whatever it takes to buy a division point set. Those that model the C&O would be interested in C&O's premier train. C&O's other premier train was the FFV-Fast Flying Virginian. There are those among us that collects passenger trains and cars as well. Of course the George might get cancel due to the lack of preorders. Who's to say?
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Post by fmilhaupt on May 16, 2017 19:31:02 GMT -8
C&O modelers who model trains other than the George will likely find these cars useful, too.
The 81-91 series RPO-baggage cars were used all over the system up until the end of railway mail service. I'm looking forward to their replacing the photo on the web site with a drawing of the actual car, which had two baggage doors on each side, and a 30-foot RPO apartment.
The converted diner-dorm-observation cars were used all over the system during the 1960s.
The arch-roofed baggage/express cars roamed the whole system, too.
I need all of these just to model the trains that ran up in Michigan. The cars in this announcement pretty much fill the remaining major gaps in my fleet.
...and since the C&O sold six of the RPO-baggage cars to the Wabash in 1963-64, I can paint up a couple for the Operations Road Show layout to replace the old AHM cars we use as stand-ins.
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Post by ssw on May 17, 2017 3:40:35 GMT -8
How close is the bag-RPO to other railroads, or is it pretty much a c&o car?
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Post by riogrande on May 17, 2017 3:57:50 GMT -8
It looks like Walthers is re-using the 52-seat coach they have had for ages - originally a C&O car. Rio Grande purchased some P-S cars originally ordered by the C&O but after ordering C&O decided they had ordered too many. That purchase included (from memory) eight 52-seat chair cars, one of which was converted immediately to Business Car 100, later named Wilson McCarthy and after Phil Anschutz took over, it was re-named Kansas, to commemorate trackage rights east of Pueblo Co.
Those cars originally intended for the C&O went to the D&RGW Prospector as well as the Royal Gorge and the Yampa Valley Mail. Except for a placard board, the Walthers 52-seat coach is a good match for the Rio Grande cars. Walthers has produced them in Rio Grande 4-stripe paint at least twice. I have two from the earlier run I picked up when Walthers was blowing them out for $16 each.
When I compared the photo's of the Walthers C&O sleeper to the D&RGW Prospector sleeper, it looks like the windows match, so that car may be leveraged by Walthers and painted for D&RGW too - hopefully they will. If we could just get a proper C&O diner, that would be enough for me to complete most of a basic Prospector train which ran with a combine, chair car(s), diner and sleeper(s), and usually a P-S baggage car.
Walthers need only tool a baggage and diner car, both I believe were of C&O origin and they could offer a full D&RGW Prospector passenger train, nice for modest sized pikes, and I should expect use them for C&O trains too.
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Post by dharris on May 17, 2017 5:43:17 GMT -8
I have to wonder in 2017, how many people are leaping at the chance to purchase a C&O George Washington Train. Diminishing returns sets in. I agree, if you are a Phoebe Snow foamer, sell the car, donate a kidney, or whatever it takes to buy a division point set. Those that model the C&O would be interested in C&O's premier train. C&O's other premier train was the FFV-Fast Flying Virginian. There are those among us that collects passenger trains and cars as well. Of course the George might get cancel due to the lack of preorders. Who's to say? Well of course C and O modelers of that era would be interested. But how many are there with spendable cash in 2017? I am sure some exist. But people and time move on. I see many PRR Walther's trains on shelves and on clearance. The PRR has been gone for 50 years. That is a long time ago. Good for Walther's for trying. Will see how this works out for them.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 6:42:24 GMT -8
I would like a nice Prospector set. It (and a pre-1960's PRR Broadway Limited) are probably the only sets I would consider buying the deluxe version of.
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Post by riogrande on May 17, 2017 7:29:11 GMT -8
Me too. The train would make a nice pike sized train and a minimum realistic consist could be run with as little as 5 cars: baggage, combine, chair, diner, sleeper. The prospector often ran with two chair cars and in earlier days if demand was there, two sleepers. I've seen other baggage cars and an RPO as well.
And another really cool thing about the Prospector, btw, is that it was a mixed train and had TOFC freight for a few years - something I think would be very cool to model/ From The Prospector magazine article RailBlazer:
"It wasn't until the summer of 1963, when the Rio Grande attempted to prove the public that it was interested in high-speed scheduled freight service, that the railroad placed up to four 85-foot flat cars on the end of trains No. 7 and 8 - Rio Grande's overnight passenger train service between Denver and Salt Lake City, known as The Prospector. This service was inaugurated on August 14, 1963, and ran Monday through Firday on a roughly 14 to 15 hour schedule. Trailers carried were destined for Glenwood Springs, Grande Junction, and Salt Lake City. Trailers were added as the train passed through the North Yard in Denver and removed at regular stops in Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction. It took approximately two minutes for this operation and most passengers never even realized what was taking place - so good were the operators. in addition, railroad officials were surprised to learn of the stabilizing effects the piggyback cars had on the rear of the passenger train."
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Post by Brakie on May 17, 2017 7:55:28 GMT -8
Those that model the C&O would be interested in C&O's premier train. C&O's other premier train was the FFV-Fast Flying Virginian. There are those among us that collects passenger trains and cars as well. Of course the George might get cancel due to the lack of preorders. Who's to say? Well of course C and O modelers of that era would be interested. But how many are there with spendable cash in 2017? I am sure some exist. But people and time move on. I see many PRR Walther's trains on shelves and on clearance. The PRR has been gone for 50 years. That is a long time ago. Good for Walther's for trying. Will see how this works out for them. Dang if I know but, there may be a market.. Eons ago I did a C&O passenger for around $60-65 but, I used 2 AHM/Rivarossi E8s and several Rivarossi C&O heavy weight baggage cars and coaches. It was my rendition of the Sportsman in the 60s..The real one was the Detroit section of the George of course but, to us locals it was still the Sportsman. My last passenger train was also a C&O but,with two Athearn FP7s and Athearn passenger cars. I painted and decaled those FP7s. Both trains looked decent for the time. Today I'm not sure I would even bother unless it was a 3-4 car Amtrak train..
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Post by peoriaman on May 17, 2017 8:14:33 GMT -8
Well of course C and O modelers of that era would be interested. But how many are there with spendable cash in 2017? I am sure some exist. But people and time move on. I see many PRR Walther's trains on shelves and on clearance. The PRR has been gone for 50 years. That is a long time ago. Might as well just cancel the whole project then already. I can see why people claim the hobby is dying with attitudes like that.
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Post by tdspeedracer on May 17, 2017 9:03:50 GMT -8
I think I'm going to start sending requests for a North Coast Limited to BLI from here on out. No sense in continuing to tell Walthers what baggage, dome, diner and rare custom painted obs in the NP Lowey scheme are selling for on ebay.
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Post by chessie77 on May 17, 2017 9:37:13 GMT -8
I just went to my local hobby shop and ordered a complete set, locomotives and all the cars. I have some more coaches and sleepers from the Pere Marquettes to add to make a full consist.I grew up in Ashland, KY. That's where all the trains were split and combined for Louisville, Cincinnati and Detroit. The C&O passenger main went right behind our house.
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Post by peoriaman on May 17, 2017 10:16:31 GMT -8
I'd think these cars would be a must-have for 1960s-era B&O modellers also. I always liked the B&O trains from that era with the simplified-paint E units and the mix of C&O and regular-B&O blue and gray cars. That is, of course, assuming there are any B&O modellers left alive who still have spending money in 2017.
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 17, 2017 12:36:00 GMT -8
I'm still alive, and considering spending the money on the standard train, not the collector's version. The train as presented is dead on for the November 10, 1966 George Washington, out of DC for Cincinnati, St. Louis and Louisville. The only discrepancy is that this version lacks the B&O Budd 16 - 4 Sleeper as Sleeper-coach, and the B&O LW Coach equipped with projector for the on board movies. Otherwise, RPO/Bag, Baggage, 10-6 Sleeper, 52 seat coach, diner/lounge/dorm/obs, coach to Louisville and 10-6 Sleeper to Louisville. (My space SC-1, roomette 9). Additional cars out of Newport News and Richmond were added at Charlottesville, and the train was split up at Ashland KY.
Yes, B&O, C&O Fans as well as PRR fans (through cars Eastward to NY)
The tooling exists because Walthers has previously done the C&O coach, with and without skirts, the 4147 sleeper with or without skirts so only the Mail and diner are new. I'm not sure about the authenticity of the baggage car, but all HW bags looked alike.
Personally, I think it's a good move on Walthers part, and it will fill a void in my Passenger train modeling.
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Post by fmilhaupt on May 17, 2017 12:43:32 GMT -8
How close is the bag-RPO to other railroads, or is it pretty much a c&o car? Aside from the six cars that were sold to the Wabash in 1963-64, the specific model is pretty much just a C&O car, though the Pennsy had some similar ones (aside from the usual PRR-isms of porthole windows in the baggage doors and different trucks) in the low-7400-series. The B&M and NYO&W had cars of a similar configuration, but they aren't a good match for this car.
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Post by gmpullman on May 17, 2017 13:57:58 GMT -8
I hope Walthers gives more thought to the choice of the diaphragm on the rear of the observation car. A closer to scale-sized, and more detailed diaphragm—even if it were not sprung like the usual Walthers type—would be far preferable, IMHO, than the big, black clunky-looking thing they show in the "pre-production" photo. Even the old Rivarossi cars had a better looking diaphragm than the plastic monolith shown in the photo.
Loksound Decoders are a very WELCOME change, too!
Regards, Ed
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 14:11:32 GMT -8
Walthers and Broadway Limited should collaberate together and come out with Auto Train cars. Between the 2 of them, they pretty much got their roster covered. I know I'd be in for a set....All 30 + cars.
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Post by jaygee on May 18, 2017 19:20:47 GMT -8
I'm takin' the whole thing !
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Post by dharris on May 19, 2017 18:19:15 GMT -8
Pre orders will determine if this is made or not. Scaletrains just emailed their N scale carbon cars are being delayed due to slow pre orders as an example.
If it is made it will be interesting to see how they remain on shelves or not.
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Post by baldclamlocoshop on May 19, 2017 18:21:02 GMT -8
I for one am tired of Walthers having their heads up their own butts. Whomever is responsible for picking the named train needs to be fired. I think it's the same guy that almost sank Kalmbach. Texas Special would have been a grand slam and so would Phoebe Snow. Yet Walthers year after year produces garbage sets that sit on their shelves until they have a huge sale to clear out the nonsense. Tired of these idiots! UP Passenger cars are another great example they could have expanded on greatly with no tooling costs. Agreed 1000%, however, the UP cars are so plentiful in both brass and plastic, it would be a waste. Just be glad you dont model a SE railroad, we have yet to have ANY correct passenger trains, we have to piece mill our trains together. But the guys at Walthers have always, IMO, been very anti-SE railroads.
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Post by baldclamlocoshop on May 19, 2017 18:59:22 GMT -8
Agreed 1000%, however, the UP cars are so plentiful in both brass and plastic, it would be a waste. Just be glad you dont model a SE railroad, we have yet to have ANY correct passenger trains, we have to piece mill our trains together. Brass ones have always been extremely high, no other plastic company makes them other than Walthers and two horribly done business cars from Kato. I am simply saying they could have added variations by simply slapping a different name on the car for modern excursion fleet. But UP isn't the problem. Phoebe Snow and Texas Special are as they keep regurgitating the same railroads in different forms. It really doesn't matter to me that much. I keep saving while if they make wrong choices they will have to rely more on distributing trains then making them to keep their mediocre jobs. I agree there at least a dozen or so named trains that hasn't been done EVER. The Snow and Special are on a VERY long and distinguished list with The Champion, Silver Meteor, Crescent, Man O' War, Hummingbird, City of Miami, and the Southwind just to mention a few.
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Post by Brakie on May 19, 2017 23:59:01 GMT -8
Well,there's always been ACL,SAL,SCL,RF&P,FEC locomotives and cars available but,no SE passenger trains excluding BB passenger cars lettered for some of the roads I mention that was no where correct.
The Johnny come lately as far as locomotives is Southern. There still isn't a correct Southern bay window caboose-well,not that I know of.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on May 20, 2017 8:39:07 GMT -8
richardthomas, "Grand Slam"? Um, no. A success? Perhaps, but you are so far the first and only person I've seen ask for the "Texas Special" either in person or online in the past 20 years. The "Phoebe Snow" is at least something people have talked about before, but it's not a guaranteed hit, either. IIRC, someone tried to import a Phoebe obs. in brass back in the day, and they couldn't get enough pre-orders so it was cancelled. Division Point's new brass Phoebe effort ought to be interesting. I hope they can get it done.
Still and all, there's no need to be so bombastic: saying Walthers should get their "heads out of their butts", are "garbage", or are "idiots", etc., isn't going to win you any friends at Walthers. And yes, they read this forum. Ever heard of the Golden Rule? Or getting more flies with honey vs. vinegar? Just sayin'...
baldclamlocoshop, We New Englanders haven't had any correct passenger train sets in plastic, either. but we are trying. The NHRHTA paid into the tooling to get coaches and parlors from Rapido for the New Haven. Maybe some of the Southern railroad historical groups should invest in some tooling of their own?
omaharoad, Don't forget that Southerners don't tend to have basements.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on May 20, 2017 10:42:34 GMT -8
Walthers has brought many great name trains to life and I've bought a fair number of them. The glass is well over half full compared to the days of only having Athearn, Rivarossi, Con-Cor, brass, or OK Herkimer to choose from. Or the old Walthers heavyweight wood kits. Sure many of us have a pet train we'd like to see done, but there's always the future.
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Post by peoriaman on May 20, 2017 11:19:50 GMT -8
Still and all, there's no need to be so bombastic: saying Walthers should get their "heads out of their butts", are "garbage", or are "idiots", etc., isn't going to win you any friends at Walthers. And yes, they read this forum. Ever heard of the Golden Rule? Well, he did clarify himself later by saying he "really didn't care that much". So its just so much hot air.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 12:03:04 GMT -8
richardthomas, "Grand Slam"? Um, no. A success? Perhaps, but you are so far the first and only person I've seen ask for the "Texas Special" either in person or online in the past 20 years. The "Phoebe Snow" is at least something people have talked about before, but it's not a guaranteed hit, either. IIRC, someone tried to import a Phoebe obs. in brass back in the day, and they couldn't get enough pre-orders so it was cancelled. Division Point's new brass Phoebe effort ought to be interesting. I hope they can get it done. Still and all, there's no need to be so bombastic: saying Walthers should get their "heads out of their butts", are "garbage", or are "idiots", etc., isn't going to win you any friends at Walthers. And yes, they read this forum. Ever heard of the Golden Rule? Or getting more flies with honey vs. vinegar? Just sayin'... baldclamlocoshop, We New Englanders haven't had any correct passenger train sets in plastic, either. but we are trying. The NHRHTA paid into the tooling to get coaches and parlors from Rapido for the New Haven. Maybe some of the Southern railroad historical groups should invest in some tooling of their own? omaharoad, Don't forget that Southerners don't tend to have basements. Basements are more common in the South than in California, Oregon, or Washington. Very few basements in the far west (not needed or wanted).
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