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Post by ncrc5315 on Jan 31, 2018 18:34:26 GMT -8
Has anyone gone from the digitrax system, to the ESU command system? If so, pros, cons?
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Post by riogrande on Feb 16, 2018 17:35:11 GMT -8
I am strongly considering switching from Digitrax to NCE. After this long I've come to the conclusion I don't speak Digitrax very well.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 17, 2018 17:05:06 GMT -8
It's not that I'm unhappy with my Digitrax system, there are just some things, that I really like about the ESU system.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 18, 2018 14:58:59 GMT -8
NCE proponent here, not enough info here to form opinion on ESU. That may be a negative for others as well, not enough info. I sure do like ESU Loksound decoders.
NCE has a large following in my area so there are tons of experience nearby to tap into.
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Post by canrailfan on Feb 19, 2018 11:16:59 GMT -8
I've had a Digitrax system for 20 years now. It's (almost) always worked well and I've grown accustomed to some of Digitrax's idiosyncrasies. Wasn't really thinking about changing the system until...
At Springfield in January I was looking for another DT throttle, now the DT500 series. I looked at the DT500 and it didn't seem much different from the DT400s/DT402s I have now. The DT500D duplex radio version was going for a bit less than $200 and the UR92 duplex radio receiver was another $122. (I didn't have radio throttles before but was looking to change that.)
Over the last couple of years I've switched to using ESU Loksound decoders for their sound quality and programmability. I knew that ESU had just released their new Cab Control system. Springfield is always a great place to see and try new products; I went looking for the new Cab Control system to check it out. To keep this story short, I tried it, I bought it and I'm converting.
The difference is like stepping out of a 1960's VW Beetle into a car of today. My opinion, straight out.
Things I like about the ESU Cab Control system:
- small size
- 7 amp power source
- ICU (command station) firmware can be upgraded from internet, new features added
- capable of handling 32 throttles
- Mobile Control II (throttle) connects to command station using standard wi-fi (or home network if desired)
- MCII runs Android operating system, fully configurable
- large knob on MCII works either right- or left-handed
- one MCII can run multiple trains
- easy set-up of advanced consisting
- visitors can use their smartphone with the EngineDriver app
- supports RailComm+ (ESU decoder-equipped locos automatically set up on MCII)
- touchscreen on MCII works just like your smartphone
- swipe left/right to change locos (trains)
- swipe up/down to access loco info and extended functions
- programming on main (POM) with read back
- MCII has a rechargeable Li-Po battery (replaceable)
This is all right out of the box, no add-ons. I know this list looks like a piece from an ad but it's actually the things I have tried and used on the system so far.
The deciding factor for me was the price. The ESU system was $385 (MRSP $499). By way of comparison, the nearest equivalent Digitrax system would be their Evolution Advanced 5A/8A Duplex Starter Set (using the DT500D) which goes for about $500 (MRSP $660).
It's unfortunate that Digitrax has not produced a more modern DCC system. They have been the top brand for a long time and gave DCC a solid base system in its early years.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 20, 2018 17:00:02 GMT -8
Thank you for your response. Everything you have said, is how I feel about Digitrax, if they could bring their throttle into the 21st century would be nice start. I have emailed them, trying to get an idea, as to what their future plans would be, (so I can plan) but they are not very forthcoming. Right now I'm learning towards the ESU system, but since I'm not ready to buy just yet, I will wait a little longer, and hope their new WiFi interface, is the first part of a new throttle system.
One question I have for you, putting cost aside for the moment, do you see any advantage, to getting the ECoS system, over the Cab Control?
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Post by canrailfan on Feb 20, 2018 19:21:15 GMT -8
Thank you for your response. Everything you have said, is how I feel about Digitrax, if they could bring their throttle into the 21st century would be nice start. I have emailed them, trying to get an idea, as to what their future plans would be, (so I can plan) but they are not very forthcoming. Right now I'm learning towards the ESU system, but since I'm not ready to buy just yet, I will wait a little longer, and hope their new WiFi interface, is the first part of a new throttle system. One question I have for you, putting cost aside for the moment, do you see any advantage, to getting the ECoS system, over the Cab Control? I had looked at the ECoS system in the past but couldn't see the two fixed controllers fitting into how I like to run trains. I like to be beside the train as it moves around the layout. My previous layout wasn't large, it had no major yard or passenger facility where a fixed controller might have been usable. This made the ECoS system too expensive for my purposes. From talking to Matt Herman I think there were many North American modelers who stayed away from the ECoS system for the same reason. The introduction of the Cab Control system is ESU's response to the NA market. I'm very happy with mine, now I have to get to work on the new layout. (The old layout went when the house needed major foundation work.) I did look at the new Digitrax LNWI interface at Springfield but it has some limitations and will rely on third party apps. Digitrax said they will not be developing any mobile devices or throttle apps. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Feb 21, 2018 6:48:28 GMT -8
I'm also considering switching from Digitrax, and was looking to go the NCE route mainly because it's supposed to be very easy to use, especially when it comes to consisting. Things I like about the ESU Cab Control system: - easy set-up of advanced consisting Can you describe how you go about this? Is it easy to set these up on the fly during an operating session? I'm curious: where did you buy the system for this price? It sounds like an absolute steal. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 21, 2018 7:53:41 GMT -8
Thanks for the description on ESU's system. I probably won't be needing to do anything until next fall or even 2019 so I'll try to educate myself and compare NCE with ESU in the mean time. Ultimately people recommend trying to use a system, but if ESU is so new, it may be difficult.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 21, 2018 19:34:45 GMT -8
Thank you for your response. Everything you have said, is how I feel about Digitrax, if they could bring their throttle into the 21st century would be nice start. I have emailed them, trying to get an idea, as to what their future plans would be, (so I can plan) but they are not very forthcoming. Right now I'm learning towards the ESU system, but since I'm not ready to buy just yet, I will wait a little longer, and hope their new WiFi interface, is the first part of a new throttle system. One question I have for you, putting cost aside for the moment, do you see any advantage, to getting the ECoS system, over the Cab Control? I had looked at the ECoS system in the past but couldn't see the two fixed controllers fitting into how I like to run trains. I like to be beside the train as it moves around the layout. My previous layout wasn't large, it had no major yard or passenger facility where a fixed controller might have been usable. This made the ECoS system too expensive for my purposes. From talking to Matt Herman I think there were many North American modelers who stayed away from the ECoS system for the same reason. The introduction of the Cab Control system is ESU's response to the NA market. I'm very happy with mine, now I have to get to work on the new layout. (The old layout went when the house needed major foundation work.) I did look at the new Digitrax LNWI interface at Springfield but it has some limitations and will rely on third party apps. Digitrax said they will not be developing any mobile devices or throttle apps. I'm mainly looking at the ECoS for the large screen for programming. I will eventually have a large yard, and it would be a nice fit there, and the Mobile Control ll can be interfaced to the ECoS. |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 21, 2018 19:35:51 GMT -8
I'm also considering switching from Digitrax, and was looking to go the NCE route mainly because it's supposed to be very easy to use, especially when it comes to consisting. Things I like about the ESU Cab Control system: - easy set-up of advanced consisting Can you describe how you go about this? Is it easy to set these up on the fly during an operating session? I'm curious: where did you buy the system for this price? It sounds like an absolute steal. On the ESU website, they have several videos, on how to use their system, there is a video on consisting. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Feb 23, 2018 0:24:00 GMT -8
I'm also considering switching from Digitrax, and was looking to go the NCE route mainly because it's supposed to be very easy to use, especially when it comes to consisting. Can you describe how you go about this? Is it easy to set these up on the fly during an operating session? On the ESU website, they have several videos, on how to use their system, there is a video on consisting. I can't find this video; can you share a link to it here? Thanks! |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 23, 2018 14:13:41 GMT -8
Here you go:
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Post by canrailfan on Feb 23, 2018 20:44:16 GMT -8
I'm also considering switching from Digitrax, and was looking to go the NCE route mainly because it's supposed to be very easy to use, especially when it comes to consisting. Things I like about the ESU Cab Control system: - easy set-up of advanced consisting Can you describe how you go about this? Is it easy to set these up on the fly during an operating session? Yes, you can create a consist (or break one up) using the Mobile Control II throttle at any time. A 2-unit consist takes less than a minute to create. Matt Herman describes how to do this toward the end of this video... I recommend watching the complete video if you have time, he gives a lot of good information about the Cab Control system and some hints of further software upgrades to come. I bought my system from Yankee Dabbler at the Springfield show. They have it on their website at the same price. yankeedabbler.com/dcc-products/starter-sets/united-states/ |
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Post by canrailfan on Feb 23, 2018 21:02:36 GMT -8
That video describes how to create a consist using the ECoS system control panel. Consisting on the Cab Control system is done using the Mobile Control II throttle. See this video by Matt Herman for how to create a consist with the Cab Control system and the MCII (starts at 13:00 minute mark). |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Mar 4, 2018 11:05:46 GMT -8
In the February 2018 issue, (page 24) of Model Railroad Craftsman, there is a review of the PIKO SmartControl DCC system. The PIKO system, is a rebadged ESU CabControl system.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 10, 2018 13:51:52 GMT -8
Spent a little time looking into the ESU system; it's looking pretty compelling and the price is pretty attractive too.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 11, 2018 1:14:46 GMT -8
Spent a little time looking into the ESU system; it's looking pretty compelling and the price is pretty attractive too. I agree. You get a lot for your money: I looked at switching to a NCE PowerCab, but by the time you add a booster and a computer interface, you end up at around the same price as the ESU system. And the ESU system has a wireless throttle! And detection of Railcom equipped decoders (all ESU Loksound decoders for example). The big thing going for the NCE PowerCab is it's cheap to start with. In either case, I still want to get an ESU LokProgrammer too. An all ESU ecosystem might have its advantages too. I've decided to hold off switching for now; my existing Digitrax system will be perfectly adequate while I get my layout built. Later, when I start operating, I will make a decision which way to go (stay with Digitrax, switch to NCE, switch to ESU). A new firmware for the ESU system is supposed to be coming out very soon. Hopefully they address the issue with the ESU system tripping on shorts faster than most circuit breakers. And hopefully a consisting feature that will work as easy as on the NCE system. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 11, 2018 3:21:40 GMT -8
Yes. Based on the architecture it appears the the ESU system is bringing in the flexibility of today's open platforms and marrying it with things like a physical knob for train control making it a convergence tactile contols with flexible touch screen controls. Now some of the older (all-be-it time tested) systems are quickly becoming dinosaurs if they don't update in similar ways. Even a guy like me who is sliding into old-guy stage can see how if you don't like the interface, it should be customization, which is pretty major.
Then there is the cost. For comparison, the NCE system I would be looking at, the NCE Power Pro 5am DCC wireless starter system is $519.99 at MBK vs. $385 for the ESU starter set - apples to apples (both wireless starter sets). That's a big help when changing to a new system. Just a few years ago I bought a brand new Digitrax DT402D throttle in hopes of making it a bit easier for me to use - which it has but I'll probably look at selling it now. I wonder if I could use my old DB150 booster with the ESU system to add a power district still?
The Railcom feature looks very nice but right now that may be of little advantage to me since I don't know if any of my engines have Railcom in them? Most of the decoders I have loose are 15-20 year old old NCE or Digitrax. I have bought a smaller number of DCC equipped engines such as a Loksound 3rd run IMRC Cab Forward, and the only other "recent" factory equipped DCC engines I have are a few Athearn or Athearn Genesis with ST Tsunami decoders and two BLI with Paragon 2 sound. I think the others were issued before the date Matt mentioned in the video like my Atlas and LL P2K sound equipped engines. But something that will be good going forward.
I am in a similar situation. Have some months of house work and basement finishing to do before layout construction begins, so it probably won't make sense for me to take the plunge until this fall or possibly next year. As you say, there will be improvements via firmware and possibly other things in the mean time that will hopefully be in the mix when purchase time comes.
As you say, consisting is a pretty big thing and one of the reasons why I've struggled with Digitrax. With touch screens and drag and drop type functions, surely that can be made much much easier than the sequence of button pushes you have to learn and memorize (if you can without using cheat sheets) with Digitrax. I fully expect that to be a major thing with the ESU interface.
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Post by atsfgp7u on Apr 15, 2018 18:59:46 GMT -8
I'm curious: where did you buy the system for this price? It sounds like an absolute steal. The Ecos System (stock #50310) lists for US$499.99. We offer it for US$375 (plus international shipping and the effect of the exchange rate of course) here in Australia. So yes, his price is good. You just need to find a dealer who will match the discount. cheers Dave |
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1to3
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Post by 1to3 on Jun 1, 2018 15:05:26 GMT -8
ESU Cab Control is still not really out on the market, oddly? PIKO SmartControl is mostly the same thing (Shared tech.) and has been on the market since 2015!? I have the PIKO system.
The PIKO basic set comes with a 2.25Amp setup, and PIKO has a 5.3 Amp transformer if you want more power. Most people wont need more than the 2.25A. Larger layouts and clubs will want the beefier 5A. PIKO also has a LocoNet Converter that works with Digitrax. (SmartControl light is supposed to work with it too, but that is an easier to use budget DCC system... though it is supposed to do all that Cab Control and SmartControl do.) ECOS is another thing completely, though you can add the remote.
I use the SmartControl system for N scale and G scale, and have for 2 years.
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Post by canrailfan on Jun 2, 2018 20:18:00 GMT -8
ESU Cab Control is still not really out on the market, oddly? You also posted this in the HO forum. Your information is not correct. ESU's Cab Control system has been available since late 2017. Several dealers at the Springfield show in January were selling them and I bought mine from Yankee Dabbler at the show. ESU has just released firmware updates for both the Cab Control Command station and the Mobile Control II Wi-Fi throttle which add new features to both. Updated: Apparently the ESU CC system is back-ordered everywhere but it is 'out' as I and a couple of my friends all have bought one. |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jun 11, 2018 14:53:55 GMT -8
Talked to a Rep yesterday at the train show. Seems ESU had some issues with the second production run, from a mold breaking, to a bad batch of components, next batch should be available in July.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 13, 2018 6:33:17 GMT -8
I might have asked this once before, but does anyone know if the ESU Cab Controller can be made to interface with a Digitrax booster/station?
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jun 13, 2018 7:35:01 GMT -8
Sort of. You can run EngineDriver on the Android-based Mobile Control II throttle. Newest versions support using the thumb wheel too.
The LocoNet interface on the Cab Control base station hasn't been activated yet. I believe the Piko-branded version of the same hardware that is available in Europe does support LocoNet.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jun 13, 2018 15:19:32 GMT -8
Digitrax, never patented Loconet in Europe, and the Loconet patent expires here in two years. The Cab Control, has the Loconet interface built in, just needs to be unlocked.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 13, 2018 16:23:21 GMT -8
Digitrax, never patented Loconet in Europe, and the Loconet patent expires here in two years. The Cab Control, has the Loconet interface built in, just needs to be unlocked. So when the patent expires in two years, the loconet interface will be unlockable in the US? |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jun 13, 2018 17:45:30 GMT -8
That's what I'm hearing, maybe even before then, if they get a deal worked out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 4:17:16 GMT -8
That's what I'm hearing, maybe even before then, if they get a deal worked out. Old thread from last summer... So; Digitrax signal decoders, detectors, and stationary decoders might eventually be able to speak to the ESU command station? Since switching back to ESU sound, I am thinking about switching to the ESU Cab Control as well. My Digitrax system serves me well...and I usually don't fix what isn't broken...but I am thinking about trying the ESU system out...as it would allow me to "name" my consists in advanced consisting...whereas Digitrax is bound to the NMRA short address nomenclature; same with NCE. All of my decoders are now ESU Loksound...so having the system run the layout would be beneficial with the Rail Command option for computerization of a couple of junctions, as well. I am building a smaller version now of the Joppa Sub...to prepare for a move in 5 years or so...the large three deck layout plan is scrapped...and a Layout Design Element is in order. So, more-than-likely one ESU booster; Command Station, and Throttle would suffice. |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jan 12, 2019 10:39:10 GMT -8
My understanding, is that Loconet, is already in the ESu Cab Control, and once the Digitrax patent is up, a firmware upgrade will enable Loconet. Will be able to use the digitrax signal system, throttles, and hopefully, my Digitrax boosters. By the way, I purchased the Cab Control, no regrets, interfaces to JMRI very easily.
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