So what available tank cars are good for 1970's?

[riogrande]

I admit I'm pretty ignorant about tank cars more than any other freight car.

I have some tank cars (mostly Atlas and Walthers), and had whittled my collection down to cars with apparent build dates of mostly 1980 or earlier. Looking more closely at some the tank cars that I thought were good for 1980 and earlier, I noticed some have 3-panel COTS so that puts them really at about 1983 and later. What I really want are tank cars that would fit within the 1970's decade. What is available that really fit the 1970's? (often it is difficult with the photo's of models to tell what time frame they would fit).

[spsf]

Not trying to toot my own horn but this car has a 1-74 build date.

www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=15767&OA=True&PageSize=72

[Colin 't Hart]

I presume you mean models, not schemes. To get the ball rolling, here's a list of cars that I know of.
* freight cars have a life of about 40-50 years
* dates mostly from manufacturers' web sites
* "affordable cars" -- I've no knowledge of brass models
* sorted alphabetically by model manufacturer and capacity

Athearn NACC 8,000 gallon "beer tank" ("seen all throughout the late 1960’s-1990’s")
Athearn RTC 20,900 gallon (1970s?) mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2011/02/athearn-trains-ho-scale-20900-gallon-acid-tank-car
Athearn ACF 25,000 gallon (62') (around 1960) cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/160584.aspx
Atlas ACF 11,000 gallon (built between 1947 and mid-1950s)
Atlas ACF 17,360 gallon ?
Atlas GATX 20,700 gallon (introduced mid 1960s)
Atlas ACF 23,500 gallon (1969 on)
Atlas ACF 33,156 gallon (early 1960s)
Kadee ACF 11,000 gallon (1947-1950)
Tangent GA 6,000 gallon (1928-1942)
Tangent GA 8,000 gallon (1949-1960)
Walthers 65' LPG (late 1970s?) atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/2327/prototype-walthers-65-tank-car

There are bound to be mistakes and omissions here... let me know in the comments and I'll update this post.

[SOMECALLMETIM]

I completely missed this announcement. May have to order a few if not too late.

Jun 13, 2018 11:17:45 GMT -8 spsf said:

Not trying to toot my own horn but this car has a 1-74 build date.

www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=15767&OA=True&PageSize=72

[riogrande]

Janek,

Thanks for the heads up on that tank car coming next year. Sometimes it's hard to tell from the announcements which are good for 1970's and many look for sure more modern with all the conspicuity stripes and other markings. I'll have to bookmark your 1974 tank car!

Thanks Colin,

As mentioned I have a number of the Atlas tank cars already and without checking probably have examples of most of those including the 33k whale belly, 23.5k etc. I have several types of the Walthers. Some of the Atlas and Walthers have 3 panel COTS so make them about 1983 and later.

Edit: yep, my Atlas MOBX and ACFX 23.5k tanks both have 3 panel COTS, as does my White ACFX 17.5k and ACFX 33k, so those all appear to be 1983+. I have a Walthers PLMX 33k also 3 panel COTS. This leaves me with only a small hand full of 1980 or earlier tank cars.


I am aware of the Tangent, many of which are quite early but a couple surely lasted well into the 1970's or later.

[packer]

Jun 13, 2018 11:17:45 GMT -8 spsf said:

Not trying to toot my own horn but this car has a 1-74 build date.

www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=15767&OA=True&PageSize=72

Adding this to my bucket list.

As for the OP, I feel the pain. Making matters worse, some of the walthers cars have the 2-panel cots plates, but late 80s build dates. (For instance my GTAX and terra chemical lpg tanks) I got lucky on my last MBK order and they had one of the atlas tank cars with a 69 date and a 2-panel cots.

Isn’t there a kitbash that can be done with the walthers 65’ lpg tank and an Athearn 62’ tank?

[ChessieFan1978]

I am not to picky about my Tank Cars. I really like the Athearn 65ft Giants, Acid, RTC, and Beer cans. They look close enough to my modeling period as long as they don't have those stupid FRA reflective stickers.

[jonklein611]

How about the GATX TankTrain? Original was in the mid 70's.

[TBird1958]

Atlas' Kaolin car look good with some work, this is a '79 built car so one of the newest on my roster.


This is a shortened MDC car (very easy kitbash) with Plano parts.


Broadway Limited's car works too.

[riogrande]

Mark,

Nice looking cars!

I forgot about the AIRCO tank car - I have one of those and forgot about it. Among the AFAIK 1970's tank cars I do have, here are a few:

Atlas Thiele tank
Atlas 33k whale belly CNTX black plain Jane and Cal Gas.
MDC "generic" standard sized tank cars built from kits (one plain Jane with reporting marks and a Corn Products
Athearn - a long kit built tank car (forget the markings) and a small 40's or 50' built tank car

I have a couple of 33k CONX Walthers tank cars but haven't dug them out lately to check.

[timvanmersbergen]

The Tangent acid tanks lasted into the 1980s.
www.tangentscalemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GATX-33154-1000.jpg?x28427

[riogrande]

Tim. Unfortunately the Tangent tank car you linked is not good for the 1970's. There are a few others earlier than 1980 including a 1971 version as follows but sold out; if re-run would work:

www.tangentscalemodels.com/product/gatx-white-lease-1971/

It seems Atlas, Walthers and Athearn have been some of the bigger makers of tank cars in the past 10 years so I'm expecting there should be a few in there I can hunt for in addition to the one Janek pointed out.

[timvanmersbergen]

The picture was to illustrate that they made it through the 1970s. Undec and decals are pretty much your only option there at this time.
Here's the one I was originally looking for.

www.tangentscalemodels.com/product/gatx-white-lease-1971/

[edwardsutorik]

I think the BLI 6000 gallon car would be on the list.


Ed

[Deleted]

I’m definitely going to look at those Athearn tank cars...thanks Janek!

[riogrande]

The Broadway 6k tank car looks a bit like the Kadee tank car. A few of the oldies were probably still lingering into the late 1970's.

[Deleted]

After seeing Mark’s construction and upgrades on the Atlas kaolin tank car, I picked up a couple of them with related parts...Mark: your models and approach are what It is all about, IMO.

I really like the weathering effects...they really bring out the details, but don’t “overpower” the model.

[riogrande]

Thomas. I totally agree - Marks weathering is IMO "just right"!

The Kaolin cars are very nice and I wish more of them were good for the 1970's.

I did notice there is a 3 panel COTS on that Thiele tank car. I never used to pay attention to those but they do seem to be time/period features. Isn't the 3 panel COTS basically 1983+ ??

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2018 8:55:25 GMT -8 riogrande said:

Thomas. I totally agree - Marks weathering is IMO "just right"!

The Kaolin cars are very nice and I wish more of them were good for the 1970's.

I did notice there is a 3 panel COTS on that Thiele tank car. I never used to pay attention to those but they do seem to be time/period features. Isn't the 3 panel COTS basically 1983+ ??

I think so, but am not sure.

I would add that after applying Mark's techniques and part additions to that Atlas tank car...it really holds up well with the higher end brethren on the market. They make a nice addition to a rolling stock consist.

[riogrande]

Ok, looks more like 1982+ from the info here and the quote references a diagram that appears to be the 3 panel type: Http://www.hosam.com

On January 1, 1982 the F.R.A. no longer required a perodic inspection so
the inspection & reconditioned dates were eliminated from the consolidated
stencils. The A.A.R. changed the Consolidated Stencil to contain only
the COT&S, lubrication and IDT.

I do have a number of rolling stock bought in the past with 3 panel COTS but am wondering if I can back date some of them with decals to two panel as long as the car build date was during 2-panel era. For the time being I may run trains as late as 1983 or so, so may hang onto the 3 panel COTS rolling stock, but am not planning on buying anything in the future with 3 panel.

BTW, I found it interesting this note about ACI: "ACI(Automatic Car Identification)plates were mandated by the F.R.A.in 1968 and were to be installed on all equipment by 1970. They were abandoned as impractical in 1978."

Yet some rolling stock like the prototypes Tangent's SP & SSW Airslide followed were repainted in 1976 and no ACI label present afterward. There seem to be other examples - Moloco's ATSF Bx-94 12/77 repaint has no ACI, and others.

For sure Marks Atlas tank car looks great and runs well with the HQ models!

[TBird1958]

Thanks for the kind words Jim and Thomas!


We certainly have a lot to choose from these days than we used to, so kitbashing stuff isn't a requirement so much. Adding Keith Hapes Plano parts to them was fun, I think he's got some of the most imaginative products out there, the weathering is mostly chalks and colored pencils along with repeated trips through the spray for dullcote in between different colors.

[Deleted]

Keith is indeed a valuable member of the community. I am working on a couple of those MP 3 Bay cylindrical hoppers with his new MP/LOCX kit.

[fr8kar]

Jun 14, 2018 10:19:23 GMT -8 riogrande said:

BTW, I found it interesting this note about ACI: "ACI(Automatic Car Identification)plates were mandated by the F.R.A.in 1968 and were to be installed on all equipment by 1970. They were abandoned as impractical in 1978."

Yet some rolling stock like the prototypes Tangent's SP & SSW Airslide followed were repainted in 1976 and no ACI label present afterward. There seem to be other examples - Moloco's ATSF Bx-94 12/77 repaint has no ACI, and others.

The inverse is also true. Some owners elected to continue using the Kar-Trak system long after its use was no longer mandated. For example, PSCX coal gondolas were delivered in 1985 with the Kar-Trak labels.

[riogrande]

Interesting about the PSCX coal gons with Kar-Trak labels in 1985 - perhaps being in a captive service made it worth doing where they had more control?

[fr8kar]

I wish I had a solid answer on that question, but I think you're in the ballpark. Once the Kar-Trak system was abandoned, there was really no effective automated system until the AEI RF system was developed in the late 80s. It was 1992 before the AEI system was mandatory and it took years for all railcars to be equipped.

This section from Don Strack's Utah Rails website details the lengths Union Pacific was going to in order to ensure identification of railcars in 1980 in the wake of the abandonment of the Kar-Trak system:

1980 Changes
The paint scheme changes in 1980 were in response to UP starting to use video cameras in their yards to allow clerks to view the car numbers and locomotive numbers of trains as they entered the yards.

This was just when the UP had reduced the number of clerks in its yard offices. Until that time, a clerk had to go out to greet most trains as they entered the yard, and write down each car number as a positive record of where the cars were on the railroad. In 1968, the American Association of Railroads had mandated the use of Automatic Car Identification (ACI) labels for its member railroads. By 1975, about 90 percent of the fleet had been equipped with ACI labels, but due to dirt accumulation and physical damage, the read-rate was down to about 80 percent, meaning that the railroads had positive locations for just over 70 percent of the national rail car fleet.

UP's response to this low read-rate, was to have a yard clerk meet all, or most trains and establish a written record. The number of trains at the larger terminals soon became a problem, and UP tried using video cameras, with a clerk sitting at a desk looking at a monitor. The test worked, but the low resolution of the black and white video images made it difficult to see the locomotive numbers. Less than five years before, UP had changed to larger numbers on their locomotives to make them more visible to yardmasters and other yard personnel, but the placement of the larger 20-inch numbers on the hood side became a problem because the resolution of the video images was blurred by the handrail stanchions. So the 20-inch numbers were moved to the cab side.

Drawings were prepared in May 1980, with both red numbers and black numbers. Red numbers were tried first, since it was what UP used as part of its overall paint scheme design. Although the drawings for the numbers themselves were prepared in late May, implementation was delayed until mid November 1980 while drawings were prepared showing the placement for individual locomotive types. This was when the last of the 36 SD40-2s in the UP 3769-3804 group were being delivered. Research using photographs indicates that UP 3779 was the first newly delivered locomotive to receive red 20-inch cab-side numbers, in mid November 1980.

It was during this May to November time period that UP changed the black edging on the 20-inch numbers from 5/16 inch to 1/2 inch, in an attempt to make the numbers more visible.

Tests with the red numbers showed that the numbers were still hard to read on the video monitors, even with the thicker black edging, so on December 11, 1980, instructions were issued to begin using black cab-side numbers. Research has not yet identified the first locomotive to receive black numbers, but the program continued from January to April 1981, with 26 units known to have received black numbers. The low number of units painted suggests that it was only Omaha and North Platte doing the work, with Omaha only painting the SW10s as they were completed.

Similar to when UP stopped using black edging on its numbers and letters in 1972, and returned to black edging in 1973, in mid April 1981 a member of upper management saw a unit with black cab-side numbers and instructions were issued to stop using black numbers and return to the use of red numbers. More tests followed in May 1981. The solution for the use of red numbers was to increase the black edging from 1/2 inch to 7/8 inch. In an internal memo, one manager called the thicker edging "satisfactory," while another remarked that the test results were "striking." The first unit completed with red 20-inch numbers, with 7/8 inch black edging was UP 3763 after wreck repairs in October 1981.

One other detail that changed in 1980 was the anti-skid color on the low noses of UP's diesel locomotives. In 1980, the color was changed back to dark green, from the Harbor Mist gray that was used starting in late 1975.

(The above summary of the 1980s changes was first posted to the UP Modelers Yahoo discussion group on April 28, 2013.)

So keeping track of railcars was a very real problem as the reliability of the Kar-Trak system declined (it never was great to begin with) and continued to be a problem through the 80s. Even today the AEI system isn't perfect - tags fail or fall off, readers occasionally fail - but it is far better than it was before.

In the post-Kar-Trak/pre-AEI era, I suppose if a railcar owner, such as a utility, wanted to put in the effort to ensure their cars could be read by the old Kar-Trak system, it was better than nothing. The fact that their cars stayed together, other than when one was set out enroute for a defect, probably made the system easy to implement and maintain. Simply install a reader at the mines and at the power plants and you could have a pretty good record of what was moved. A missing car could be compared with the railroad's records of what was set out and repaired.

[riogrande]

Great and interesting info!

[SOMECALLMETIM]

From my understanding there are several current and older models that would be accurate for the 1970s if they were only painted in 60s/70s era paint. The Atlas funnel flow comes to mind. Athearn with their 20,700 gallon and 20,900 need additional 70s paint schemes. The Atlas 20,700 is another that would be accurate with additional paint offerings - they did offer several initially. I have heard it’s a lack of quality photos preventing new 70s painted versions of these cars.

[bar]

The advent of onboard sensors will rapidly provide near real-time visibility of freight cars and other assets.

[Colin 't Hart]

Jun 14, 2018 16:37:31 GMT -8 bar said:

The advent of onboard sensors will rapidly provide near real-time visibility of freight cars and other assets.

Right, but not in the 1970s :-D :-D