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Post by riogrande on Jun 29, 2018 10:19:18 GMT -8
I have around six factory equipped sound engines with decoders from that list as follows:
2 HO Atlas GP40-2's (QSI)
1 HO Walthers Proto F7AB (QSI)
2 Broadway RSD15's (Paragon)
1 Athearn Genesis GP40-2 (Tsunami 1 OEM)
I can upgrade two of the above via Soundtraxx up-grade program for June 2018. Which of my engines would need the upgrade most based on your experiences with the sound they come with?
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Post by jonklein611 on Jun 29, 2018 11:13:02 GMT -8
I'd change out the QSI's, I was never happy with them.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 29, 2018 11:26:05 GMT -8
That is my thought too. I'm thinking of replacing the two Atlas GP40-2's since they are really at the focus of my time frame and era. The sound hasn't really impressed me. The F7's are to cover a mid-late 1960's operating sessions less often.
Now the BLI RSD-15 were run on shared trackage in Utah during my main operating time of interest but I haven't heard a lot about them. I would have bought them without sound but AFAIK, they only came with sound? Or at least the ones I could find after they were sold out were only sound equipped. A few have said the Paragon II sound is not so hot.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 29, 2018 16:44:39 GMT -8
The old Broadway Paragon decoders were QSIs, as well.
The Paragon 2 RSD15 sound isn't that great, but still better than QSI.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 29, 2018 18:51:27 GMT -8
So far sounds like the QSI are the best to replace.
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jun 30, 2018 4:47:12 GMT -8
I used the program to change out 2 of my QSI equipped GP30's. I would do the QSI first. I invested in a lot of TSU1's when they got marked down, some around $50 a piece. The TSU1' do play well with the TSU2s.
While I don't have any Paragon equipped ALCO units I find the ESU ALCO sound is still the best. I have one TSU2 with ALCO and it does sound OK but nowhere near a clear as the 2 ESU ALCO's I have.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 30, 2018 12:30:52 GMT -8
THanks James. Sounds like the consensus is to trade in the QSI and if I upgrade the RSD15's, go with ESU at that time.
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jun 30, 2018 16:50:59 GMT -8
Jim,
I will add one more thing. Open those Atlas locos up and look at the board before purchasing. I got a ESU PNP board for an Atlas Dash 8, got it programmed with ditch lights and then looked at the loco and it has the new small sized DCC ready board(8 pin) with no room for the PNP "long" board.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 1, 2018 5:28:28 GMT -8
Jim, I will add one more thing. Open those Atlas locos up and look at the board before purchasing. I got a ESU PNP board for an Atlas Dash 8, got it programmed with ditch lights and then looked at the loco and it has the new small sized DCC ready board(8 pin) with no room for the PNP "long" board. Thanks for the tip. For what it's worth, these Atlas GP40-2s were out in 2009. When did that Atlas Dash 8 produced? How did you deal with the size difference? |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 1, 2018 6:01:08 GMT -8
How did you deal with the size difference? Jim, if you don't want to do a "hard wire" approach, TCS sells a replacement light board with 21MTC connector and Keep alive on board. You do not need to use a TCS decoder.
Bob
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jul 1, 2018 6:12:14 GMT -8
I am not sure when Atlas made the change in the board size. The Dash 8 I was going to use I got off Ebay as just a chassis. A quick check on the Atlas site is on help as the parts diagrams are not dated and some show both style boards for the Silver/gold meaning they are generic. If you have your parts diagram for these locos I would say it would be somewhat accurate.
I will say it is probably a good bet that the QSI is the large Atlas style PNP board.
There is plenty of space in most of these models for the 8 pin decoders.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 1, 2018 6:15:22 GMT -8
How did you deal with the size difference? Jim, if you don't want to do a "hard wire" approach, TCS sells a replacement light board with 21MTC connector and Keep alive on board. You do not need to use a TCS decoder.
Bob
Bob, would that mean I would need to request the 21 pin format TSU2 as the replacement from Soundtraxx and get a TCS light board from TCS? Would that be a tight fit in the GP40-2? Sounds like that option would facilitate keep alive as a bonus. |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 1, 2018 6:19:03 GMT -8
I'm going to need to take the shell off to remove the old QSI board and see how the land lies. Will need to pull out the decoders to send back by July 20 according to the ST guy.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 1, 2018 12:04:03 GMT -8
I'm going to need to take the shell off to remove the old QSI board and see how the land lies. Will need to pull out the decoders to send back by July 20 according to the ST guy. Jim, just in the process of doing that with an Atlas GP38 that had QSI. The chassis/weight setup is a little different. Be best to remove the shell and see what it look like. Bob |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2018 3:49:32 GMT -8
My weekends have been eaten up by home projects and I may not have much hobby time this summer unfortunately. OTOH, Soundtrax site shows the TSU2 PNP board as the correct version for Atlas GP40-2's but now I've gotten feedback from several that the QSI board in the Atlas GP40-2 is a smaller size than the TSU2's meaning that it's going to be less than a simple drop-in to get it replaced. That being the case, I'm not willing to go to the extra trouble right now to do the upgrades on these engines so I'm going to see if I can just return the un-opened TSU2's and not take advantage of the ST upgrade program. The sounds I've heard from the newest ESU decoders have been quite good so I'm a bit reticent under current circumstances to get deeper into ST when it's not going to be a simple swap-out. As it is I have plenty of other things on my plate and don't really want to add further to the 'to-do' list. I do appreciate the feedback and it's been helpful for me to evaluate the Soundtraxx offer, which looked like a good idea early on but the more feedback I get, the more it's looking like more trouble that it's worth.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 2, 2018 5:53:04 GMT -8
My weekends have been eaten up by home projects and I may not have much hobby time this summer unfortunately. OTOH, Soundtrax site shows the TSU2 PNP board as the correct version for Atlas GP40-2's but now I've gotten feedback from several that the QSI board in the Atlas GP40-2 is a smaller size than the TSU2's meaning that it's going to be less than a simple drop-in to get it replaced. That being the case, I'm not willing to go to the extra trouble right now to do the upgrades on these engines so I'm going to see if I can just return the un-opened TSU2's and not take advantage of the ST upgrade program. The sounds I've heard from the newest ESU decoders have been quite good so I'm a bit reticent under current circumstances to get deeper into ST when it's not going to be a simple swap-out. As it is I have plenty of other things on my plate and don't really want to add further to the 'to-do' list. I do appreciate the feedback and it's been helpful for me to evaluate the Soundtraxx offer, which looked like a good idea early on but the more feedback I get, the more it's looking like more trouble that it's worth. Jim, I think when you eventually open up the GP40-2, you'll find the setup pretty bizarre compared to the typical Atlas "guts". For one thing, I just discovered in tearing about an Atlas GP38 w.QSI, they cut off the mounting tabs on the motor. What that mean is you can not "snap on" the typical replacement board, even if space wasn't an issue. Plus, the weights are a unique design to accommodate the QSI decoder. And the motor is unique (I think) in that the flywheel on the rear is about a 1/3 the width of the typical flywheel (this might only be a factor in the GP38).
Bob
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2018 5:59:18 GMT -8
Bob, thanks for the heads up on all of this. After asking around, the consensus was that the QSI would be the best candidate to upgrade, although some swore up and down they like them just fine. I don't have any experience replacing sound boards so I'd rather my first one not be something not straight forward. The information on the Soundtraxx website simply states that the TSU2 PNP is the correct decoder for the Atlas GP40-2. Apparently there may be considerably more to the story.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 2, 2018 10:17:08 GMT -8
I have a new GP40-2, and I can confirm the strangeness of the configuration of them. The board is part of the structure of the system holding the weights in place, and the rear flywheel is not only smaller, it is stepped down halfway across in width.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2018 10:28:54 GMT -8
Anyone gotten into the guts of the Walthers Proto 2000 QSI sound F7AB's? That would be the only other candidate if I don't return both of the TSU2's I ordered.
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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 2, 2018 10:37:43 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2018 10:59:08 GMT -8
Thanks Jon. If I followed the photo's right, it looks like there is some circuit board soldering involved. While I have done some soldering to rails etc., soldering tiny wires to circuit boards might not go so well with my limited skills and I don't want to throw away $88 on a decoder installation with a botched soldering job.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 12, 2018 10:42:10 GMT -8
While I agree that the old QSI sound quality is lacking (pitch bending...ecch), they had three features that I really liked:
1). Verbal feedback (when programming on the mainline). I do a bunch of that at my club since I'm the go-to guy for speed matching. Having the decoder confirm the change is handy, and the owner of the loco can hear the change, too. It gives them an idea of what I'm doing.
2). Verbal speedometer. I set all timetable times with an Atlas QSI-equipped H24-66 using F10 to tell me the speed in scale MPH. I've tested it against a infrared speedometer and found the QSI to be pretty accurate, surprisingly enough. It also allows operators to know what 25mph is when they're hauling an ore drag, or 79mph on a passenger run without the use of the infrared speedometer.
3). Realistic braking. To me, this is the most important one. Old QSI's would work a realistic braking system based on the 24RL brake stand. First you set CV04 to a high number like 255. It means your engine will coast for just about ever. Run the train at speed, then reduce the throttle. The train continues to run at speed while the engine rpm's drop. Now hit F7, you'll hear an "air release" sound (different then the normal one) and the train will now start slowing down at an ever increasing rate. Once you get the rate of reduction the way you want it, hit F7 again to "lap" the brake and the train will continue to slow at that rate. Hit F7 again to increase the rate of braking, hit F7 to lap, and so on until the train slows to the throttle position you've chosen. To cancel this, simply accelerate the throttle and the brakes will reset. Or hit the Emergency Stop and you'll stop immediately.
For added fun, add some CV03 momentum (like 30 or so...depending on the size of the train) and try changing the throttle to 14 speed steps (easily done with Digitrax DT400's and "Status Edit" feature) and use the + and - buttons. 00% is stop (like Emergency Stop), 07% is idle, 14% is Notch 1, and so on. One can even mess around with the speed curves (CV2, 5 and 6) to get the most out of this.
The best part is trying to run a commuter train with this. Just try to make a station stop with a 3-car train without missing the platform. You have to start braking well in advance of the station...just like the real thing. I find it pretty enjoyable.
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