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Post by trainboyy on Dec 21, 2020 13:25:24 GMT -8
As mentioned above kv models is making etchings for several of his models and he has started to include the grill openings in many of his shells to accept the etchings. Sorry for beating a dead horse, but could this mean that KV's U33C is a Big Dawg resin cast? I had bought one a few months ago for a project I have yet to get off the ground. To my knowledge there is nothing mentioning PNW resins or anything of the sort, so I assume it's in the clear. kvmodels.com/ho-u33c-phase-1-shells/Take a good look and tell me what you think. It certainly looks better than a lot of Big  Dawg's stuff, especially in person.  |
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Post by 12bridge on Dec 21, 2020 13:32:03 GMT -8
The resin stuff KV sells is indeed done through Big Dawg or whatever he is called this month. He has done several etch kits for them also.
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 13:34:09 GMT -8
As I recall KV said on their FB page that they are done by The Dawg aka PNWR. Either way, it is a master made from an Atlas shell with the grills removed.
Won't buy anything from KV since they've gone this route.
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Post by trainboyy on Dec 21, 2020 13:35:01 GMT -8
The resin stuff KV sells is indeed done through Big Dawg or whatever he is called this month. He has done several etch kits for them also. Any clue if there's a viable/good alternative? I'd rather not deal with a guy who steals portions of - or whole - models just to make a quick buck, even if it's through a company I trust. |
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Post by fr8kar on Dec 21, 2020 13:45:52 GMT -8
On this page he directs customers of the etch parts to buy the PNW SF30C shell. The metal parts look pretty good, but the shell speaks for itself. kvmodels.com/kv-517h/ |
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 13:53:44 GMT -8
On this page he directs customers of the etch parts to buy the PNW SF30C shell. The metal parts look pretty good, but the shell speaks for itself. kvmodels.com/kv-517h/On the diesel detailer FB page a well known modeler built one. I didn't follow closely but as I recall he had a lot of hours in the shell making it usable. Nice buffer....   It's unfortunate that the diesel detailer forum has become a ghost town due to seemingly most everyone going to their FB page. FB groups are not really very good for that sort of work and it is more difficult to find the info after the project is done. |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Dec 21, 2020 13:57:52 GMT -8
It was right up until that time that I was purchasing etches from KV models but after the PNW addition, I will call it quits.
Man, I really liked those GE radiators.
ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 21, 2020 14:13:45 GMT -8
The shell in the photo above looks major wonky.
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Post by trainboyy on Dec 21, 2020 14:14:29 GMT -8
It was right up until that time that I was purchasing etches from KV models but after the PNW addition, I will call it quits. Man, I really liked those GE radiators. ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source. Sorry to sound a bit rude, but: Why abandon KV as well just because they're doing business with PNW? I can kind of understand, as it's horrible that they make parts for and even sell the shells that Big Dawg makes; though, I don't think it's a smart choice to completely abandon them. You do you. I'd rather not try to sway people's opinion's on a company. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 14:30:45 GMT -8
ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source. I work with Keith at Plano for my etchings and I don't know if he would want to get involved in producing something that is already out there. I can probably figure out how to do the layout to have them done myself but don't have the time right now. (See below) I can print them, have done some already, but durability is an issue. I'm so far behind on orders right now because of health issues with my parents, this covid has them essentially locked in their home per doctors orders, that taking on something new right now isn't in the cards but that should change very soon. |
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Post by slowfreight on Dec 21, 2020 16:09:51 GMT -8
It was right up until that time that I was purchasing etches from KV models but after the PNW addition, I will call it quits. Man, I really liked those GE radiators. ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source. Sorry to sound a bit rude, but: Why abandon KV as well just because they're doing business with PNW? I can kind of understand, as it's horrible that they make parts for and even sell the shells that Big Dawg makes; though, I don't think it's a smart choice to completely abandon them. You do you. I'd rather not try to sway people's opinion's on a company. Yeah...I went back and forth on that myself. I'm OK buying KV's etchings, particularly the GP radiator etchings. My U34CH is done, and I used fr8kar's cab so no matter the shortcomings I feel it's better than using the KV resin shell with the molded-in cab anyway. So I will avoid his resin parts.  |
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sp3205
Junior Member
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Post by sp3205 on Dec 21, 2020 16:18:06 GMT -8
ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source. I work with Keith at Plano for my etchings and I don't know if he would want to get involved in producing something that is already out there. I can probably figure out how to do the layout to have them done myself but don't have the time right now. (See below) I can print them, have done some already, but durability is an issue. I'm so far behind on orders right now because of health issues with my parents, this covid has them essentially locked in their home per doctors orders, that taking on something new right now isn't in the cards but that should change very soon. Keith Hapes is a class act and his products are great. A few years ago he was trying to develop some etched EMD stanchions, but seems to have abandoned the effort. I while back I bought some of the KV stanchions, they look nice straight on, but are too shallow. They are 0.010 thick, and should be about twice that. Unfortunately, to my eye it's very noticeable. The former PIA stanchions I use (designed by Bob Zenk with masters made by Gordon Cannon) are still available from Precision Scale Company, so I continue to use those for EMDs and Utah Pacific on the (very) occasional U-boat.
Elizabeth
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Post by nsc39d8 on Dec 21, 2020 16:36:39 GMT -8
ThunderHawk, I really wish you could come up with some nice stanchions like those, I need a new source. I work with Keith at Plano for my etchings and I don't know if he would want to get involved in producing something that is already out there. I can probably figure out how to do the layout to have them done myself but don't have the time right now. (See below) I can print them, have done some already, but durability is an issue. I'm so far behind on orders right now because of health issues with my parents, this covid has them essentially locked in their home per doctors orders, that taking on something new right now isn't in the cards but that should change very soon. I completely understand your situation. I use a lot of Plano products and have chatted with Keith on several occasions. I would not ask you to undercut him on any project, I know completion is taught right now. I understand COVID as well, has been very hard on me and my family. As stated in another response the KV stanchions seem thin. I used them on the SD40-2 I posted months ago in SPF. I actually talked Scott into doing the longer stanchions for the SD50/60 at the blower duct. I will use what I have on hand and more than likely wait and see how the GE radiator goes when I get to it. I know several RPM modelers that have tried to get etched stanchions and nothing seems to come out correctly. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 16:44:50 GMT -8
I work with Keith at Plano for my etchings and I don't know if he would want to get involved in producing something that is already out there. I can probably figure out how to do the layout to have them done myself but don't have the time right now. (See below) I can print them, have done some already, but durability is an issue. I'm so far behind on orders right now because of health issues with my parents, this covid has them essentially locked in their home per doctors orders, that taking on something new right now isn't in the cards but that should change very soon. Keith Hapes is a class act and his products are great. A few years ago he was trying to develop some etched EMD stanchions, but seems to have abandoned the effort. I while back I bought some of the KV stanchions, they look nice straight on, but are too shallow. They are 0.010 thick, and should be about twice that. Unfortunately, to my eye it's very noticeable. The former PIA stanchions I use (designed by Bob Zenk with masters made by Gordon Cannon) are still available from Precision Scale Company, so I continue to use those for EMDs and Utah Pacific on the (very) occasional U-boat.
Elizabeth
Keith is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. Look forward to meeting him in person when shows start up again one of these days. What little I know about etching tells me that using .020 sheet would likely have undercut issues and would make the tab that rolls over the handrail too thick to be workable. To make it thin enough would require etching both sides which would leave a step and force the handrail outward on the stanchion. Etching definitely has limitations. Are the PIA's the ones that are a bit short due to shrinkage caused by the multiple steps from the master to the final piece? Seems someone with lost wax knowledge here talked about how that happens once. |
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Post by fishbelly on Dec 21, 2020 17:08:22 GMT -8
Yes, the PIA stanchions are a little short. At this point in time though, they are the best available. I toyed with the idea of getting my own stanchions cast. I took all the dimensions on one of my many trips to the museums. I have a shop I sometimes use that if I send them the 3D drawing to the size they are supposed to be, they will upsize it in cad to allow for shrinkage. I just have not had a good reason to invest in the project. It is the same shop that cast my N-Scale operating couplers. Like the Sergent couplers. They worked really well. The problem was the metal ball that locks the coupler was just not heavy enough to fall back down in its cavity all the time. The castings were beautiful though.
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 17:38:02 GMT -8
Yes, the PIA stanchions are a little short. At this point in time though, they are the best available. I toyed with the idea of getting my own stanchions cast. I took all the dimensions on one of my many trips to the museums. I have a shop I sometimes use that if I send them the 3D drawing to the size they are supposed to be, they will upsize it in cad to allow for shrinkage. I just have not had a good reason to invest in the project. It is the same shop that cast my N-Scale operating couplers. Like the Sergent couplers. They worked really well. The problem was the metal ball that locks the coupler was just not heavy enough to fall back down in its cavity all the time. The castings were beautiful though. I whipped this up a while back to test print. Needs some adjustments as it's too fine where the handrail goes through but that is nothing. Do you use a rock shop or a bigger outfit? If they are reasonable could you send me a PM with their info? I have some other stuff I need investment cast and finding someone local to me has been a fail as expected with my rural location and I'm not to the point of doing it in house. I can 3d print the pieces in resin designed to be burned out so that removes the shrinkage issues. *N scale "Sergents"? That is insane in a good way. I think. hah  |
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Post by Frank on Dec 21, 2020 18:59:05 GMT -8
As I recall KV said on their FB page that they are done by The Dawg aka PNWR. Either way, it is a master made from an Atlas shell with the grills removed. Won't buy anything from KV since they've gone this route. They share the weird door gap spacing issues with the Atlas model for sure. I opted to buy the shell for an early phase U33B, having that weird radiator fairing and all. Much easier than using the retrofit kit KV offers. Using the rear end of the shell combined with the absolutely enormous pile of Atlas U boat shells I have stashed makes for a good model. The etched screens are a nice touch as well. |
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sp3205
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by sp3205 on Dec 21, 2020 20:39:21 GMT -8
Keith is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. Look forward to meeting him in person when shows start up again one of these days. What little I know about etching tells me that using .020 sheet would likely have undercut issues and would make the tab that rolls over the handrail too thick to be workable. To make it thin enough would require etching both sides which would leave a step and force the handrail outward on the stanchion. Etching definitely has limitations. Are the PIA's the ones that are a bit short due to shrinkage caused by the multiple steps from the master to the final piece? Seems someone with lost wax knowledge here talked about how that happens once. If I remember correctly, I think they were actually formed a bit. Unfortunately, the photos aren't on his web site any more.
Elizabeth
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 21, 2020 22:21:18 GMT -8
Keith is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. Look forward to meeting him in person when shows start up again one of these days. What little I know about etching tells me that using .020 sheet would likely have undercut issues and would make the tab that rolls over the handrail too thick to be workable. To make it thin enough would require etching both sides which would leave a step and force the handrail outward on the stanchion. Etching definitely has limitations. Are the PIA's the ones that are a bit short due to shrinkage caused by the multiple steps from the master to the final piece? Seems someone with lost wax knowledge here talked about how that happens once. If I remember correctly, I think they were actually formed a bit. Unfortunately, the photos aren't on his web site any more.
Elizabeth
The ones Keith was working on were. As I recall, it's been a while, from a very brief convo about them they were just too fine to really be workable as they were etched flat, with the channel having to be formed by the end user. Even with a half etch on the backside that would not be easy and not possible with a model making metal brake with the narrow width of the channel. I mentioned the .020 in conjunction with doing them the way KV has to get the thickness. |
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Post by ford86 on Dec 22, 2020 9:46:07 GMT -8
I took a chance on the SD45X shell out of curiosity. Overall, its a starting point. There are several areas that have glaring problems that required a complete rebuild.
I had to replace the nose: it sloped up and not down.
Sand and fill the entire area behind the cab to the exhaust stack: it wasn't level side to side behind the cab and front to back by the exhaust stack.
New internal air filter and exhaust stack (exhaust stack was not straight)
Replaced the dynamic brake intake grills with ones I cut down from a Kato SD40-2 hatch.
My time would of been better spent scratch building the entire long good. However, the KV etchings dress up the model considerably and I am at the point where it looks respectable.
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Post by schroed2 on Dec 22, 2020 10:27:26 GMT -8
I wrote this in the last thread about this topic about one year ago and I have not started yet on the shell...
"I have to confess that I bought a resin SP S6 shell from a source called CMR. The origin is likely an old brass model and the casting most likely done by the people mentioned in this thread. The quality is...as to be expected.
I really hope that Atlas will announce the model the moment I start working on the resin shell..."
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Post by popbumper on Jan 10, 2021 2:01:31 GMT -8
The resin stuff KV sells is indeed done through Big Dawg or whatever he is called this month. He has done several etch kits for them also. Any clue if there's a viable/good alternative? I'd rather not deal with a guy who steals portions of - or whole - models just to make a quick buck, even if it's through a company I trust. On this page he directs customers of the etch parts to buy the PNW SF30C shell. The metal parts look pretty good, but the shell speaks for itself. kvmodels.com/kv-517h/Wish I would have known. I bought the early U33C resin shell from KV not knowing the whole story. I'm so far into the project now that I will see it through; this is what happens when you've been away twenty years and you find these "new and wonderful things". I never, until perusing the site tonight, was aware of BDO/PNW practices and any interaction between he and KV.The KV etchings are beyond fantastic, but I had no clue on the resin shell(s). Sad. |
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Post by mlwlover on Jan 10, 2021 10:49:58 GMT -8
i wished pnw would clone replacement parts for models instead of copying shells from models already made. we really need replacement parts as in handrail stanchions, with no more smokey valley. i have two proto 2000 gp-60 locomotives that need handrails and walthers does not offer parts support, and really none of the manufacturers do, only athearn.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jan 10, 2021 11:40:34 GMT -8
i wished pnw would clone replacement parts for models instead of copying shells from models already made. we really need replacement parts as in handrail stanchions, with no more smokey valley. i have two proto 2000 gp-60 locomotives that need handrails and walthers does not offer parts support, and really none of the manufacturers do, only athearn. Depending on what you need, Atlas has always been pretty good on parts. Over the years I have purchased more than a few parts from Atlas. They do periodically run out of parts for certain models. It will be interesting to see how this might change in the future. Bob |
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Post by popbumper on Jan 10, 2021 14:24:46 GMT -8
I work with Keith at Plano for my etchings and I don't know if he would want to get involved in producing something that is already out there. I can probably figure out how to do the layout to have them done myself but don't have the time right now. (See below) I can print them, have done some already, but durability is an issue. I'm so far behind on orders right now because of health issues with my parents, this covid has them essentially locked in their home per doctors orders, that taking on something new right now isn't in the cards but that should change very soon. Keith Hapes is a class act and his products are great. A few years ago he was trying to develop some etched EMD stanchions, but seems to have abandoned the effort. I while back I bought some of the KV stanchions, they look nice straight on, but are too shallow. They are 0.010 thick, and should be about twice that. Unfortunately, to my eye it's very noticeable. The former PIA stanchions I use (designed by Bob Zenk with masters made by Gordon Cannon) are still available from Precision Scale Company, so I continue to use those for EMDs and Utah Pacific on the (very) occasional U-boat.
Elizabeth
I was fortunate enough back in the mid-nineties to work at the same company with and meet Keith Hapes, while his Plano Products business was starting to take off. I had used, and still do use his products. Nice to hear that others have talked with him/are working with him! |
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