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Post by valenciajim on Dec 16, 2019 16:34:06 GMT -8
This morning an electrician was working on my house. He needed to access out attic and the only way into the attic is through my train room on the second floor.
My electrician really liked my layout. He told me that one of his neighbors had built a similar sized layout in his garage. (We don't have basements in SoCal.) Apparently the neighbor got into a fight with another neighbor across the street and that neighbor reported a building and safety code violation to the City. The City sent out a building inspector who determined that the layout (i) unlawfully blocked access through the garage and (ii) did not allow for a car to be parked in it. The City demanded that the layout be dismantled. The owner of the layout apparently modified his layout so that a car could be parked in the garage. However the City would have none of it and required that the entire layout be removed.
I have never heard of this before, but it certainly sounds like a sad story.
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 16, 2019 19:52:41 GMT -8
Just another day in Kommiefornia
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Post by sp8299 on Dec 17, 2019 11:49:55 GMT -8
As a proud and happy lifelong resident of SoCal, I call BS on the story...or at the very least, there's some detail missing. AFAIK there's no law(s) requiring "access" to/through a garage; myself, and many other neighbors and other residents I know use unused garage space for stuff besides parking a car, like storage. As long as you're not running a meth lab, most people don't care what's going on in your garage. OTOH, if there's a building code violation, like say an un-permitted addition to the garage, or some other thing that legitimately runs afoul of the law (like, say, a fire code violation), then maybe they'd be forced to dismantle. The only other thing I could see having any bearing on what one does to their property could be a snippy HOA, but you find those in every state, and even then, they likely wouldn't care about what's inside a garage. I'd be curious to hear the particulars of the story...city, alleged safety code violated, etc. Otherwise, this sounds like a typical "lOoK aT wHaT tHeY maKe yOu dO iN EvIL caLifOrNia!" piece. May not be perfect, but there are few other places I'd rather live.
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Post by jonklein611 on Dec 17, 2019 11:54:46 GMT -8
As a proud and happy lifelong resident of SoCal, I call BS on the story...or at the very least, there's some detail missing. AFAIK there's no law(s) requiring "access" to/through a garage; myself, and many other neighbors and other residents I know use unused garage space for stuff besides parking a car, like storage. As long as you're not running a meth lab, most people don't care what's going on in your garage. OTOH, if there's a building code violation, like say an un-permitted addition to the garage, or some other thing that legitimately runs afoul of the law (like, say, a fire code violation), then maybe they'd be forced to dismantle. The only other thing I could see having any bearing on what one does to their property could be a snippy HOA, but you find those in every state, and even then, they likely wouldn't care about what's inside a garage. I'd be curious to hear the particulars of the story...city, alleged safety code violated, etc. Otherwise, this sounds like a typical "lOoK aT wHaT tHeY maKe yOu dO iN EvIL caLifOrNia!" piece. May not be perfect, but there are few other places I'd rather live. My thoughts exactly. Sounds like a Re:Re:re:fwd:fwd:fwd: CA is so crazy! chain email. |
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Post by riogrande on Dec 17, 2019 12:04:37 GMT -8
As a proud and happy lifelong resident of SoCal, I call BS on the story...or at the very least, there's some detail missing. AFAIK there's no law(s) requiring "access" to/through a garage; myself, and many other neighbors and other residents I know use unused garage space for stuff besides parking a car, like storage. Growing up, my family moved to San Fernando valley for 2 year and I spent the next 15 years in the Fairfield/Davis/Sacramento area, as well as Texas, Indiana, New York etc. People everywhere use their garages for storage, often packed to the gills. I never heard of an HOA until I moved to Virginia, and they can vary from totally useless to sort of useful, mostly worried about did you mow your lawn or is the side of your house covered with green algae, or is there tons of paint peeling on your porch. As for California, I have a lot of fond memories but from what I hearing, I wouldn't be able to afford to live there if I moved back. |
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Post by sp8299 on Dec 17, 2019 12:22:44 GMT -8
As a proud and happy lifelong resident of SoCal, I call BS on the story...or at the very least, there's some detail missing. AFAIK there's no law(s) requiring "access" to/through a garage; myself, and many other neighbors and other residents I know use unused garage space for stuff besides parking a car, like storage. Growing up, my family moved to San Fernando valley for 2 year and I spent the next 15 years in the Fairfield/Davis/Sacramento area, as well as Texas, Indiana, New York etc. People everywhere use their garages for storage, often packed to the gills. I never heard of an HOA until I moved to Virginia, and they can vary from totally useless to sort of useful, mostly worried about did you mow your lawn or is the side of your house covered with green algae, or is there tons of paint peeling on your porch. As for California, I have a lot of fond memories but from what I hearing, I wouldn't be able to afford to live there if I moved back. I've lived in southern LA county my whole life, and love it here. Unfortunately, you're correct in that housing is expensive; lack of inventory and high demand have pushed even basic starter homes in decent neighborhoods north of 600k. I've been on the hunt for a new home for awhile now, even putting in bid on a place I liked a few months ago, but it's hyper-competitive right now. Some of the housing crunch is slowly being alleviated by new construction, especially with town houses, which are the rage right now, and older people retiring/moving (or passing), but it'll take a while for the market to settle. As for HOAs, I agree they can vary. A house a good friend of mine recently bought in Tustin has a high monthly HOA fee and stringent rules, but the house is gorgeous, in a booming area with good schools for his kids, relatively close to where he and his wife work, and has a community center with pool, BBQ area, kitchen, dining area, and other amenities for the residents to share. Worth the tradeoff in his case. |
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Post by riogrande on Dec 17, 2019 14:41:32 GMT -8
I've lived in southern LA county my whole life, and love it here. Unfortunately, you're correct in that housing is expensive; lack of inventory and high demand have pushed even basic starter homes in decent neighborhoods north of 600k. I've been on the hunt for a new home for awhile now, even putting in bid on a place I liked a few months ago, but it's hyper-competitive right now. Some of the housing crunch is slowly being alleviated by new construction, especially with town houses, which are the rage right now, and older people retiring/moving (or passing), but it'll take a while for the market to settle. As for HOAs, I agree they can vary. A house a good friend of mine recently bought in Tustin has a high monthly HOA fee and stringent rules, but the house is gorgeous, in a booming area with good schools for his kids, relatively close to where he and his wife work, and has a community center with pool, BBQ area, kitchen, dining area, and other amenities for the residents to share. Worth the tradeoff in his case. Being raised a military kid, I didn't have the luxury of living in one place. Down side is no roots. Up side is you experience a lot of different places. Never heard of Tustin. I lived in the Mission Hills/Van Nuys area. My mom's bother was married to my dad's sister and he was a lifelong LAPD policeman living in Long Beach until he retired to Pueblo CO. I didnt drive while living there so didn't get around much. There are tons of townhomes in the Washington DC metro area too and those seem to be the starter home here as well; more going up all the time like a desert of Townhomes. After living in one for 4 years, I dislike them because if you get bad neighbors as I had, it can really suck and I was on is end unit too! In decent areas they seem to be priced a bit lower maybe than LA around 400 to 500k in northern VA but location makes a huge difference. This is an expensive area too. Townhomes get a good deal more expensive the closer you get to DC, easily exceeding a Million. For my wife and I to afford a 2600 Sq ft stand alone house with a garage and 860 sq ft unfinished basement, we had to move pretty far out west in the sticks where we settled on a bank owned home in pretty decent shape for $299k. We've had to put some sweat equity to modernize/upgrade the kitchen and master bath and finish the basement ourselves, for trains of course. HOA fees are part of the picture and we decided to try to minimize what to me seemed like some thing that added possibly a major expense with, to us, little benefit. HOA fees are $112 every 3 months which is pretty low. Kids are out of school and we live in a quiet neighborhood in a small town. We were in a townhome in a densely populated area that tended to be pretty noisy too before miving. Soon as we moved, my wife would say, listen, can you here that? Silence! Except for the occasional passing of a NS train. Our town is on a fairly busy mainline. It's nice to hear but like Liz says, at least for watching, it's all crap now. |
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Post by valenciajim on Dec 17, 2019 15:10:01 GMT -8
First of all, this was not a chain e-mail, but a story that was relayed to me yesterday by an electrician whom I have known to be credible in the past. He is pretty familiar with building codes, but there probably is more to the story. This purportedly happened in Santa Clarita, which is politically right of center. However, Santa Clarita is pretty anal about enforcing building codes. We have lots of HOAs around here and it is possible that the removal of the layout was the result of an HOA enforcement activity, but the electrician specifically stated that the Department of Building and Safety came out to the house.
The City of Santa Clarita has strict rules about converting a garage to living space and perhaps the model railroad was designated as living space. The owner may have made unpermitted electrical modifications to the garage which would have directed the ire of Building and Safety, or perhaps he extended the HVAC to the garage. Based on the experience of a friend who extended heating and a/c to his garage so he could work on his car in comfort. Doing so caused the garage to meet the definition of living space. The City discovered this when he replaced a water heater and pulled the required permit to do so. He ended up having to remediate the garage HVAC extension which was deemed to be a fire hazzard. So, as I think about this, the story may not be as implausible as people think.
HOAs are not limited to California. I had a terrible experience with an HOA in Cincinnati with a home I purchased for my sister to live in. In Ohio, it was possible for this particular HOA to vote for decreases in the monthly fees that depleted the HOA's reserves. When we got ready to sell the place, we got an HOA capital assessment that was 25% of what the house was worth. The way the HOA was operated would have been illegal in California, but I was advised by Ohio legal counsel that there was some technicality in Ohio law that allowed this to happen.
I have traveled extensively across the US and I have not found a place that I would rather live than SoCal. People from other states love to bash California, but it still is a great place. It is expensive and the taxes are high, but I know many people who left California only to find that the cost of living differential is not as great as they expected.
I concur totally with SP8299's comments about the state of housing in California. You need to make a six figure income and a $120,000 down payment to buy a starter home in Santa Clarita. Most HOAs have monthly fees of $300-$500. I have three millennial children who would like to purchase a home, but are unable to do so despite having a six figure household income. They hope that there is a bubble in the market.
Next time I see the electrician, I will ask him for more detailed information.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 17, 2019 16:04:29 GMT -8
I've been all over the country too and having spent 17 years of my life in California I know there is a lot to like. But I also know after a divorce that was financially detrimental, it's far beyond my means. "Paradise" had priced itself above many of us.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Dec 17, 2019 20:48:42 GMT -8
Back about 10 years ago, when my layout was in the basement of a retail space, I almost got in trouble for it. The basement had actually been retail space back in the 1970's, but the extra staircase got sealed off by a previous tenant (just by putting in floor joists and flooring) and the basement became just storage again (but with retail lighting...yay!).
Anyways, as a retail space, my layout was subject to annual fire inspections by the local FD. In the 15 years I had it, 14 inspections went without a hitch. The LT or CAPT would show up with the boys, wander around, and admire the trains. But one year, the Chief showed up with the guys, and he gave me crap about the layout and the abandoned staircase, calling both "deathtraps". Nothing ever came of it, but he had me worried for a while. Again, no other firefighter even expressed any concern whatsoever; I guess the Chief was just having a bad day...?
BTW, if you want nasty code enforcers, try Florida. A fellow club member (and retired cabinet maker) lives there over the winter, and told me that to install his own new cabinets he made, he had to pull permits for construction, electrical, and plumbing. Keep in mind, he was only doing upper cabinets with no electrical or plumbing involved. He told me that they have code enforcers who check the neighborhoods during trash days for construction debris every week. If they find any, and you haven't got any permits, they'll demand access to your home to check if you've made any changes. If you have made un-permitted changes, not only must your remove them immediately, you get a big fat fine, too.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 18, 2019 4:20:04 GMT -8
BTW, if you want nasty code enforcers, try Florida. A fellow club member (and retired cabinet maker) lives there over the winter, and told me that to install his own new cabinets he made, he had to pull permits for construction, electrical, and plumbing. Keep in mind, he was only doing upper cabinets with no electrical or plumbing involved. He told me that they have code enforcers who check the neighborhoods during trash days for construction debris every week. If they find any, and you haven't got any permits, they'll demand access to your home to check if you've made any changes. If you have made un-permitted changes, not only must your remove them immediately, you get a big fat fine, too. Wow. Guess you need to make sure you take any construction debris away where the code Nazis's won't see it or know where it came from! Having been to Florida a number of times, I don't find it a place I would want to move to, despite my preference for moderate climates. That's another strike against the state. |
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Post by brakie on Dec 19, 2019 2:46:03 GMT -8
The Ada HO model railroad club lost its home due to not having two exits as per State fire codes.. The club was located on the second floor of PRR's Ada station.
Ohio can be a pain at times.
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Post by thunderhawk on Dec 19, 2019 19:37:37 GMT -8
Sweet baby Jesus. A permit to replace a water heater?
I'm so glad I live in a rural area.
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Post by jonklein611 on Dec 20, 2019 5:26:42 GMT -8
Sweet baby Jesus. A permit to replace a water heater? I'm so glad I live in a rural area. Depends entirely on your region's building code. Most code nowadays requires a permit to replace a water heater. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 20, 2019 9:47:52 GMT -8
"code" doesn't require a permit. "code" is a collection of rules describing the physical requirements. A permit is a "legal" one.
The building department, and the city government, is the one to require permits.
Hereabouts (Oakland CA), repairs for less than $350 (amount, as I recall) don't require a permit. It follows, then, that a water heater replacement might qualify if the homeowner supplied the water heater. Of course, if the homeowner did the actual work, and paid himself a dollar an hour, that would sorta qualify, too.
For water heater replacement, around here, I seriously doubt that ANYONE gets a permit.
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Dec 20, 2019 11:13:27 GMT -8
"code" doesn't require a permit. "code" is a collection of rules describing the physical requirements. A permit is a "legal" one. The building department, and the city government, is the one to require permits. Hereabouts (Oakland CA), repairs for less than $350 (amount, as I recall) don't require a permit. It follows, then, that a water heater replacement might qualify if the homeowner supplied the water heater. Of course, if the homeowner did the actual work, and paid himself a dollar an hour, that would sorta qualify, too. For water heater replacement, around here, I seriously doubt that ANYONE gets a permit. Ed Sorry, I mispoke. The legal requirement in my area is water heater / furnace / hvac replacement requires pulling a permit. |
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