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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 16, 2020 15:53:57 GMT -8
In September 2019, Athearn announced a new run of Roundhouse GP38-2s featuring a few changes including:
- Solid pilot face with screw mounted coupler pockets on both ends
- LED Headlights and improved rear numberboards
- Full featured 8-function 21-pin NCE DCC Decoder
[/a] but the price for the GP40-2 was listed at $109.98 verses $139.98 for the GP38-2 (I'm still trying to figure out what prompted the $30 increase!) In any event, I recently bit the bullet and paid full list price for one of the new Athearn Roundhouse GP40-2s painted for BNSF #2051. My intention was to compare the new unit to a kit version (EMDX #769) to see exactly how the enhancements measured up. The unit ran well at the store, and sure enough featured LED lighting, closed pilots, retooled front and rear headlights, solid rear number boards, and modified coupler mounting pads. The motor looks like it was upgraded, but I have not had an opportunity to study it too closely. The gears in the trucks have been upgraded, and the center posts no longer feature the pins that interlock into the second half of the truck frame. Below are some pictures featuring the "lightly" retooled GP40-2 and a kit version GP38-2.                   Not sure what's going on with this fan, but this can't be correct. Thank goodness for Cannon!  More pictures to follow... [/ul][/font] |
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Post by markfj on Jan 16, 2020 16:08:50 GMT -8
You know, those models don’t look half bad. But (and you knew there would be a “but”) for the price it seems to make more sense to hunt down a deal on a Genesis version. I get that not everyone is thrilled with the Genesis line for QC issues and parts that fall off, but you get a really good shell and better drive train. Besides, $139.98 isn’t what I would call cheap for a Roundhouse model.
Mark J.
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Post by csx3305 on Jan 16, 2020 16:23:52 GMT -8
Looks like they tried to simulate the “shimmed” dynamic fans of the CSX roster.
The big failing of these is still that awful cab, IMO. That was always the first thing to get Cannonized.
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Post by brakie on Jan 16, 2020 16:41:50 GMT -8
Donnell, When I compared my RTR GATX GP38-2 to my BB CR GP38-2 the only difference I could see was the grabs and plastic handrails.
After adding numbers in the number boards, grabs and plastic handrails to my CR GP38-2 they was hard to tell them apart.
IMHO both are fine looking engines that can take their place among the Atlas GP38 and the Proto GP38-2.. Of course like everything in the hobby YMMV.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 16, 2020 17:50:57 GMT -8
It would be nice if they finally put the old "Blue Box blob" horn to rest. It's 2020, surely we can do better with a nicer plastic horn here Athearn!
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Post by loco8107 on Jan 16, 2020 19:24:31 GMT -8
It would be nice if they finally put the old "Blue Box blob" horn to rest. It's 2020, surely we can do better with a nicer plastic horn here Athearn! So true! And to also have the mount spot a little further up too like it’s supposed to be- on the other side of the “line” on the cab where the numberboard area begins.. And what is up with the bland pilot on the roundhouse unit??? Are you kidding me?? No holes to drill for details like air hoses and uncoupling lever if we choose to add. C’mon Athearn!! |
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Post by brakie on Jan 17, 2020 4:47:12 GMT -8
It would be nice if they finally put the old "Blue Box blob" horn to rest. It's 2020, surely we can do better with a nicer plastic horn here Athearn! Be of good cheer Judge, all is not lost.. I replace those ugly BB horns with Atlas GP38,GP40,SD35 three chime air horns which looks much better then those BB blobs. I buy all of my detail parts from a dealer that specializes in parts and locomotive shells on e-Bay. |
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Post by brakie on Jan 17, 2020 5:11:46 GMT -8
It would be nice if they finally put the old "Blue Box blob" horn to rest. It's 2020, surely we can do better with a nicer plastic horn here Athearn! So true! And to also have the mount spot a little further up too like it’s supposed to be- on the other side of the “line” on the cab where the numberboard area begins.. And what is up with the bland pilot on the roundhouse unit??? Are you kidding me?? No holes to drill for details like air hoses and uncoupling lever if we choose to add. C’mon Athearn!! Once I again I look to Atlas for my needed detail parts. The mu hoses from the Atlas GP38 works quite well on Athearn RTR and BB pilots. I also use Atlas GP38 uncoupling bar and eye bolts. In my currently stored railroad stuff at my daughters I have two small Plano compartment storage box containing detail parts.. IMHO one can't have enough detail parts if he likes to supped up their older BB engines. Which reminds me I have several modeling projects to do once I leave this retirement home nightmare which should be next week.I call it a nightmare because the lack of enjoying my life long hobby as I like. I'm not even allowed a X-Acto hobby knife because its a liability should I cut myself without supervision. On the brighter side my daughter tells me there is a finished dry and heated basement awaiting me and my trains.. |
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Post by Gary P on Jan 17, 2020 5:29:20 GMT -8
Brakie - Good luck with the move!
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 17, 2020 8:55:57 GMT -8
Here are a few more comparison shots of the GP38-2 kit and the GP40-2 Roundhouse.
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Post by csx3305 on Jan 17, 2020 9:56:11 GMT -8
The revised rear headlight housing is a big improvement.
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Post by loco8107 on Jan 17, 2020 11:20:53 GMT -8
So true! And to also have the mount spot a little further up too like it’s supposed to be- on the other side of the “line” on the cab where the numberboard area begins.. And what is up with the bland pilot on the roundhouse unit??? Are you kidding me?? No holes to drill for details like air hoses and uncoupling lever if we choose to add. C’mon Athearn!! Once I again I look to Atlas for my needed detail parts. The mu hoses from the Atlas GP38 works quite well on Athearn RTR and BB pilots. I also use Atlas GP38 uncoupling bar and eye bolts. In my currently stored railroad stuff at my daughters I have two small Plano compartment storage box containing detail parts.. IMHO one can't have enough detail parts if he likes to supped up their older BB engines. Which reminds me I have several modeling projects to do once I leave this retirement home nightmare which should be next week.I call it a nightmare because the lack of enjoying my life long hobby as I like. I'm not even allowed a X-Acto hobby knife because its a liability should I cut myself without supervision. On the brighter side my daughter tells me there is a finished dry and heated basement awaiting me and my trains.. The only problem is lining things up is a lot harder. It’s very hard even for a well-trained eye to do given what that new pilot looks like. For the amount of money they charge, there’s no excuse for that. |
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Post by brakie on Jan 17, 2020 11:40:28 GMT -8
Once I again I look to Atlas for my needed detail parts. The mu hoses from the Atlas GP38 works quite well on Athearn RTR and BB pilots. I also use Atlas GP38 uncoupling bar and eye bolts. In my currently stored railroad stuff at my daughters I have two small Plano compartment storage box containing detail parts.. IMHO one can't have enough detail parts if he likes to supped up their older BB engines. Which reminds me I have several modeling projects to do once I leave this retirement home nightmare which should be next week.I call it a nightmare because the lack of enjoying my life long hobby as I like. I'm not even allowed a X-Acto hobby knife because its a liability should I cut myself without supervision. On the brighter side my daughter tells me there is a finished dry and heated basement awaiting me and my trains.. The only problem is lining things up is a lot harder. It’s very hard even for a well-trained eye to do given what that new pilot looks like. For the amount of money they charge, there’s no excuse for that. True that.. It's not a job for a modeler with little or no experience detailing engines. I do it my way which may not work for everybody but,I have been at it for awhile. I file the mounting nubs off the mu cluster , give them a test fit ,add a two drops of super glue on the back of the mu hose group and press into place and make sure its straight and center. And yes, it is nerve racking since you have seconds to correct any mistake.. |
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Post by csx3305 on Jan 17, 2020 13:32:56 GMT -8
Once I again I look to Atlas for my needed detail parts. The mu hoses from the Atlas GP38 works quite well on Athearn RTR and BB pilots. I also use Atlas GP38 uncoupling bar and eye bolts. In my currently stored railroad stuff at my daughters I have two small Plano compartment storage box containing detail parts.. IMHO one can't have enough detail parts if he likes to supped up their older BB engines. Which reminds me I have several modeling projects to do once I leave this retirement home nightmare which should be next week.I call it a nightmare because the lack of enjoying my life long hobby as I like. I'm not even allowed a X-Acto hobby knife because its a liability should I cut myself without supervision. On the brighter side my daughter tells me there is a finished dry and heated basement awaiting me and my trains.. The only problem is lining things up is a lot harder. It’s very hard even for a well-trained eye to do given what that new pilot looks like. For the amount of money they charge, there’s no excuse for that. Jobs like this get a lot easier with just a cheap 20 dollar pair of dial calipers. Set the measurement you need, pull one jaw along the bottom of the pilot plate while the other jaw lightly scribes a line. Then use a fine scribe to set your drill bit starter points. It’s all about the proper tools. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jan 17, 2020 13:55:25 GMT -8
That rear numberboard (with its tiny font) sure looks weird.... So I looked for BNSF 2051 on the 'ol Google and sure enough, its accurate. But the model with all its Dash-2 spotting features, turbo exhaust stack, original (non-blanked) class lights, etc, etc, sure isn't. Its a stand-in.
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Post by onequiknova on Jan 17, 2020 14:52:09 GMT -8
The mold alignment on the old BB looks much better. At least where the end meets the long hood. The bolt head detail around the fan hatch was changed on the Roundhouse.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 17, 2020 15:01:09 GMT -8
It would be nice if they finally put the old "Blue Box blob" horn to rest. It's 2020, surely we can do better with a nicer plastic horn here Athearn! Be of good cheer Judge, all is not lost.. I replace those ugly BB horns with Atlas GP38,GP40,SD35 three chime air horns which looks much better then those BB blobs. I buy all of my detail parts from a dealer that specializes in parts and locomotive shells on e-Bay Yeah, that's basically my point: it wouldn't cost all that much for Athearn to come out with a generic plastic Nathan K3 or Leslie S3 to use on all their Roundhouse models like Atlas does (or did) with most of their GP38/40/etc models. It doesn't even need to be a prototype-specific horn, it just has to look half-decent. When people look at it, they'll say "That right there is a real manly horn!" rather than "WTF is that anemic thing stuck on the cab roof of my Athearn GP38-2?!"  PS, good luck with the move and future layout! |
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Post by rmcroadster on Jan 17, 2020 15:37:35 GMT -8
It is unfortunate that no one realised the glazing in the cab needs upgrading too. While AMB produces the required item I would expect other Athearn standard cab glazing would fit.
Matthew
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 17, 2020 18:21:42 GMT -8
For me, the lack of location dimples is of little consequence. Someone mentioned laying out the locations with calipers. This is a good idea, one which I have used many times before. For this project, I will likely create a drilling template/guide that will lay over the pilot giving me consistent placement of all the pilot details.
I'm more concerned with Athearn's factory getting the molds lined up correctly. That dynamic brake fan error is atrocious! And, the long hood end should make a seamless transition into the curved roof at the rear, as was also pointed out earlier. (Didn't we just argue, I mean discuss this issue back on the GP40P-2 thread?)
The things that I would like to address are the major spotting features that set this unit apart from others like it. The fact that the prototype started life as a Milwaukee GP40 will mean some backdating is in order. The cab will lose its rear "dash 2" overhang, and the dynamic hatch will receive a scratch built paper air filter box and new Cannon fan. The middle radiator fan will be removed and plated over, and the molded fan will probably just receive Plano grilles and fan hubs and blades. The walkway may get tread, whether Cannon or Archer, I don't know yet (probably Archer though.) The air reservoirs will be replaced with ones by Details West, and the fuel tank will be detailed accordingly. Lastly, the coupler buffers will be narrowed for a more scale appearance.
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Post by 12bridge on Jan 20, 2020 8:58:29 GMT -8
Mold alignment seems to be an issue that is popping up more and more - and not jut on older things. I have brand new stuff from all of the big companies that have some pretty bad mold parting lines.
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Post by fr8kar on Jan 20, 2020 14:58:26 GMT -8
The revised rear headlight housing is a big improvement. Wow, you're right. It's finally the right size. Even if the headlight is still a little rough, at least you could put a Detail Associates or Cannon headlight on there and you wouldn't have the wide extra space around it. |
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sp3205
Junior Member
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Post by sp3205 on Jan 21, 2020 16:50:02 GMT -8
Close-up photography like Donnell has posted on this thread can be cruel to the best of models. If you don't believe that, try it out on your most prized model. But the one thing that stands out to me on these models and every other diesel model produced of late is how utterly awful the paint is. What looks like soft, poorly rendered detail is revealed to be crisp and and sharp when stripped. Paint should not be thick enough to fill in a EMD knuckle-bust door latch. Unfortunately, this problem isn't limited to the models Donnell has highlighted here, even the most highly touted high-end models suffer from paint jobs that clearly look like someone used a 1:1 scale paint gun on a 1:87 scale model. With one fairly recent purchase of a current state-of-the-art model, I was really disappointed at how soft the details appeared when I first inspected it. I started to wonder if the new way of making molds wasn't all it's cracked up to be. However, once I stripped the paint, the crisp lines and all the attention to detail that were claimed were more then evident. So why hide it under all that paint? I'm one of those who will go out of my way for an undecorated model, in part because I think using paint matched to a prototype color chip yields a model that is far too dark, and I'm not great at lightening it to my satisfaction. But mostly it's because ya'll (and I mean that inclusively rather than as a slang term) routinely do a terrible job slathering on the paint. Nice razor sharp lettering doesn't make up for the fact that the base coat is a measurable thickness if we account for scale. Surely we can do better?
Elizabeth
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Post by spsf on Jan 22, 2020 7:56:13 GMT -8
Close-up photography like Donnell has posted on this thread can be cruel to the best of models. If you don't believe that, try it out on your most prized model. But the one thing that stands out to me on these models and every other diesel model produced of late is how utterly awful the paint is. What looks like soft, poorly rendered detail is revealed to be crisp and and sharp when stripped. Paint should not be thick enough to fill in a EMD knuckle-bust door latch. Unfortunately, this problem isn't limited to the models Donnell has highlighted here, even the most highly touted high-end models suffer from paint jobs that clearly look like someone used a 1:1 scale paint gun on a 1:87 scale model. With one fairly recent purchase of a current state-of-the-art model, I was really disappointed at how soft the details appeared when I first inspected it. I started to wonder if the new way of making molds wasn't all it's cracked up to be. However, once I stripped the paint, the crisp lines and all the attention to detail that were claimed were more then evident. So why hide it under all that paint? I'm one of those who will go out of my way for an undecorated model, in part because I think using paint matched to a prototype color chip yields a model that is far too dark, and I'm not great at lightening it to my satisfaction. But mostly it's because ya'll (and I mean that inclusively rather than as a slang term) routinely do a terrible job slathering on the paint. Nice razor sharp lettering doesn't make up for the fact that the base coat is a measurable thickness if we account for scale. Surely we can do better? Elizabeth I don't think they make 1:87 scale paint guns yet, but that would be a game changer!  |
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Post by thunderhawk on Jan 23, 2020 21:02:04 GMT -8
Close-up photography like Donnell has posted on this thread can be cruel to the best of models. If you don't believe that, try it out on your most prized model. But the one thing that stands out to me on these models and every other diesel model produced of late is how utterly awful the paint is. What looks like soft, poorly rendered detail is revealed to be crisp and and sharp when stripped. Paint should not be thick enough to fill in a EMD knuckle-bust door latch. Unfortunately, this problem isn't limited to the models Donnell has highlighted here, even the most highly touted high-end models suffer from paint jobs that clearly look like someone used a 1:1 scale paint gun on a 1:87 scale model. With one fairly recent purchase of a current state-of-the-art model, I was really disappointed at how soft the details appeared when I first inspected it. I started to wonder if the new way of making molds wasn't all it's cracked up to be. However, once I stripped the paint, the crisp lines and all the attention to detail that were claimed were more then evident. So why hide it under all that paint? I'm one of those who will go out of my way for an undecorated model, in part because I think using paint matched to a prototype color chip yields a model that is far too dark, and I'm not great at lightening it to my satisfaction. But mostly it's because ya'll (and I mean that inclusively rather than as a slang term) routinely do a terrible job slathering on the paint. Nice razor sharp lettering doesn't make up for the fact that the base coat is a measurable thickness if we account for scale. Surely we can do better? Elizabeth They use guns like this, which is in fact an automotive touchup gun. I have one with a .8mm nozzle.  If you watch some factory videos, ST's Big Blow vid comes to mind, you'll see them using guns similar to this. From my experience just painting 10 cabooses at a time a gun like this is needed for volume production for two reasons. The quantity of paint it holds in the cup and covering in one coat. With production costs the way they are, I doubt three, four, or five light coats to get coverage is feasible. Note-I haven't tried the big gun yet. I use an Iwata TRN2 with a .5mm tip and generally have two color coats on top of a primer coat. I purchased the bigger gun for the larger color cup and, more importantly, a much larger fan which allows a color coat on each side of the car in one pass. Just like a typical airbrush, the volume of paint can be adjusted at full trigger pull and of course at partial pull. |
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Post by markfj on Jan 24, 2020 5:25:24 GMT -8
If you watch some of the Rapido factory tour videos, you’ll see they also use what looks like an automobile touch-up spray gun. I worked as a painter in a metal shop during college years ago and used Devibliss suction fed guns. You can get a fairly fine spray pattern with these guns if the mixture and pressure is right. However, you’ll still be moving a lot of paint through the nozzle.
In fairness to the manufacturers, there isn’t really any alternative available to mass paint these models. However, some manufacturers are better at mass production painting than others, no doubt about it.
Mark J.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 24, 2020 8:17:43 GMT -8
One other issue with the paint may be the need today to use more environmentally friendly, water based paints, that may not allow for the thin coats that would let details remain sharp.
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Post by stevewoodward on Jan 27, 2020 16:37:15 GMT -8
I recently acquired one of the upgraded Athearn Roundhouse Geeps. As a modeler who once was able to enjoy purchasing high dollar locos I now find myself on a tight budget. And I am almost enjoying the forced "downgrade". I will enjoy adding some extra details and some weathering to these lower priced locos, throw in a budget decoder, and have a blast. I've kept a few expensive locos for sentimental reasons, but I will make no apologies for my newfound interest in budget modeling. I spent a good hour or so last night running my switching layout with a Roundhouse GP40-2 with a mute decoder and it was fun. Back to basics for me.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 28, 2020 0:00:23 GMT -8
Here are a few of the changes that I have made to the Athearn BNSF 2051 "Smurf" GP38-3. Given that the real locomoitve was remanufactured from a GP40, there is really only so much I can do to mask the dash-2 features.
3/4 view - conductor's side
Close-up of cab. Standard interior glazing removed in preparation for new press-fit laser-cut glass
Primary changes can be seen here. DB hatch modified with air filter box extensions. DB fan removed in preparation for Cannon fan. Center radiator fan removed.
Close-up of modified DB hatch and paper air filter box extension.
Center radiator fan removed
Side profile
Close-up of rear of cab on conductor's side. Six things need to be changed in this photo. Can you guest what they are?
DB Hatch - engineer's side
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Post by thunderhawk on Jan 28, 2020 3:03:10 GMT -8
Going from memory, it's ex MILW GP40 2011 (one of three painted in the Hiawatha scheme), remove the cab overhang, no EFCAB, no sunshade mount with a drip rail in it's place, remove ribs from blower duct, high mount bell unless they changed that, battery doors versus bolt on panel, different dust bin hatch and remove vent from side of cab. Not sure if intakes are different.
Of course some of the above may have been changed in the rebuild.
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Post by brakie on Jan 28, 2020 3:22:16 GMT -8
Donnell,That will be one sweet looking engine when you get her finished.. As a suggestion I would remove those Athearn horns and use Atlas GP38 horns.
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