|
Post by mdvle on May 22, 2020 11:24:38 GMT -8
|
|
|
Rapido Q/A
May 22, 2020 12:26:42 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by lackawanna1223 on May 22, 2020 12:26:42 GMT -8
I thought I wanted 2-3, but I guess I was in error on that. But it DOES explain why NH McGinnis never show up on Ebay. 'Cause if no one wants any, why would you ever try to sell some. At ANY price. Glad we got that cleared up!
If people disagree with their assessment of the demand, the easiest way to try and change perception is by contacting Rapido. Enough people request them, then things might get reevaluated.
Anyway, something I forgot to put in the first post.
Jason has been converted to the allure of making freight cars. Rapido has a bunch in the development pipeline - from all over North America, many from the transition era, with the goal that in say 18 months they will be releasing a freight car each month.
Finally got to watch the video and I must have missed it but where did Jason mention freight cars?
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 22, 2020 13:09:35 GMT -8
Freight car discussion starts a couple of seconds after the 52 minute mark.
|
|
|
Rapido Q/A
May 22, 2020 14:20:46 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by lackawanna1223 on May 22, 2020 14:20:46 GMT -8
Freight car discussion starts a couple of seconds after the 52 minute mark. Yep, completely missed it — thanks for pointing it out...I am STOKED!
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 22, 2020 14:30:05 GMT -8
Freight car discussion starts a couple of seconds after the 52 minute mark. Yep, completely missed it — thanks for pointing it out...I am STOKED!
Easy to miss stuff, which is why I point out my notes could have mistakes.
Anyway, for anyone interested Bill Schneider and Jordon Smith will be doing a Facebook Live with TrainWorld on Monday May 25th at 7pm EDT.
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 22, 2020 15:07:24 GMT -8
Part of it may be what Athearn has planned given they have hinted at the next release of their model will be upgraded in some way. So I guess a need to wait and see. Rapido has done the F40PH, which had no less than 3 versions done in HO plastic already, including the Kato which was actually a fantastic model and was much more proportionally correct than their P42. Rapido has also done the Alco FA and PA which both have had lots of coverage in HO before, again with several versions being far better than the existing P42 options. I think it’s safe to say that prior coverage isn’t a good reason for Rapido to not do a P42. That locomotive would fit into their product line extremely well being modern Amtrak with national appeal and plenty of paint schemes, having no good existing plastic options, running prototypically with half the stuff they already make, and even having a VIA version! There’s not much VIA stuff left that Rapido hasn’t done.
The F40PH models weren't accurate for VIA, and have the added advantage of multiple paint schemes beyond VIA and Amtrak (and with VIA is has been used across Canada). Even at that my (perhaps faulty) recollection is Rapido was hesitant about tooling up the Amtrak F40PH's given the existing models.
The Alco FA was the result that, again, no one had ever done the MLW units and thus those were what drove the models (think Kingston Sub 1980). The PA is a different story (only ever 2 demonstrator units in Canada), but sales have so far been very good per the Q&A and again, unlike most Amtrak stuff multiple railroads had them. It also helps that it seems many of the hobby companies have lost interest in the transition era, making it less risky.
As for the P40/42, I believe you when you say there are issues. But there are only 3 operators which seriously limits the paint scheme variety - and for VIA it only operated in the corridor which further restricts its potential (and they are gone from VIA in 2 or 3 years). So when you consider 80% of the market doesn't care about accuracy and is happy with the existing Athearn or Kato units my guess is a 3rd model would be risky. On the other hand, as one of the existing 2 provider Athearn could upgrade/retool (we will have to wait and see) with minimal risk.
But to bring in what the Athearn guys have said several times now during their Q&A things, some of it takes patience. All of these companies have long lists of items they would like to do but only so much money for tooling (and only so much customer money to buy the models). So with a long list of items, not everything can be a priority and be at the top of the list even though it is very annoying when it is a model we really want that doesn't make the top.
|
|
|
Post by markfj on May 22, 2020 15:32:07 GMT -8
Re: Rapido RS11
It’s likely I’ll buy one, I was just curious if any issues other than the fan housing height had popped up. I read on another forum that a couple people had derailment issues, but I took those reports with a big grain of salt since the track work quality is unknown.
There seems to be plenty of these models currently available (eBay shows 4 pages when I search for “Rapido RS11”). Think I’ll wait until a good deal comes along.
Thanks, Mark
|
|
|
Post by drsvelte on May 22, 2020 16:18:22 GMT -8
Re: Rapido RS11 It’s likely I’ll buy one, I was just curious if any issues other than the fan housing height had popped up. I read on another forum that a couple people had derailment issues, but I took those reports with a big grain of salt since the track work quality is unknown. There seems to be plenty of these models currently available (eBay shows 4 pages when I search for “Rapido RS11”). Think I’ll wait until a good deal comes along. Thanks, Mark Did someone mention an Alco RS-11? Ever since Alco Models imported the DL-701, I have been a fanboy. I was a struggling grad assistant back in the 1970s, but I saved my shekels until I had $42.50 to send off to Pro Custom Hobbies for the model. I kept that DL-701 until a few years ago when I finally sold it, which I now regret. Now, to salve that ache, I have been collecting plastic versions from Atlas, Proto, and now Rapido. I’ve included some comparative photographs of the long hood fan shroud that might be helpful to those considering the Rapido. So here you go Mark. Left to Right: Rapido, Proto, Atlas Top to Bottom: Rapido, Proto, Atlas Rapido Proto Atlas The Rapido shroud is clearly more elevated than the other two models. The Proto and Atlas are more consistent with the many photos that I have for N&W, PRR, LV, and NKP. Plus, I don't think the Rapido tooling for the fan screen material is as good as either of the other two models. I've got plenty more to say if anyone is interested.
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on May 22, 2020 18:21:41 GMT -8
Interesting it appears the Atlas has the cab set back somewhat further toward the middle of the locomotive.
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 22, 2020 19:56:28 GMT -8
I've got plenty more to say if anyone is interested. I am. Interested, that is. Ed
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 22, 2020 20:29:11 GMT -8
]The Alco FA was the result that, again, no one had ever done the MLW units and thus those were what drove the models (think Kingston Sub 1980). mdvle, I am not following you, here. Can you please develop/clarify your statement? Ed
|
|
|
Post by thebessemerkid on May 22, 2020 22:51:50 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by thebessemerkid on May 22, 2020 23:05:56 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by simulatortrain on May 23, 2020 7:13:52 GMT -8
Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer...
|
|
|
Post by amtrakfl9 on May 23, 2020 8:17:12 GMT -8
Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer... I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do. Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree?
|
|
|
Post by thebessemerkid on May 23, 2020 10:40:00 GMT -8
Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer... There's always been a compromise between fineness of detail and durability. One can look at thr offerings of the (Czech?) Eduard etchings in the ships and aircraft modeling community to see what is possible. In the model RR field, handling is part and parcel of the models, so some thickness is usually considered mandatory. Ideally, anything so oversized should be added separately by the modeler. Give them the choice of leaving off too thick etchings or finding ones more to scale. Back on track with the 3 model RS-11 comparisons, I'd like to see pics of the models compares truck to truck (one above the other, the bottom one inverted of course). This would compare wheelbases and body lengths / offsets. Also pictures of the cab roof curvature, although at first glance they all seem decent. Close-ups of each manufacturer's trucks, bofh straight on and angled, the latter to give an idea of depth of detail, would also be helpful. Comparing undecs would be ideal, as it removes paint thickness from the list of variables. Not possible here, but something to keep in mind. I would *really* like to see a comparison of all the current SD45's: Athearn, Proto/Walthers, Kato, Scaletrains, BLI, even Bachmann. It's somewhat crazy that certain models (F-units!) have so many different attempts. An ideal effort might be to assemble and strip on of each model, and put photos of them up in a blind selection poll. Maybe two polls: First the shell alone, second the frame and trucks visovle below the shell (motors are too easy a giveaway). Wonder how many people can pick the "best" without guidance as to who the manufacturer is.
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 11:40:42 GMT -8
The Alco FA was the result that, again, no one had ever done the MLW units and thus those were what drove the models (think Kingston Sub 1980). I am not following you, here. Can you please develop/clarify your statement?
It is common knowledge that a lot of what Rapido makes is the result of what Jason needs for his Kingston sub layout, set in late 1980 I believe.
So the combination of being a VIA fan, and needing them for his layout, meant that Rapido made the MLW FPA-4 and FPB-4.
This in turn both created the base for the other models in the ALCO/MLW FA/FPA/etc family, but also created demand as people wanting the other members of the family started requesting them - particularly modellers of CP/CN who wanted units to go with their VIA trains (the second run of FA-2/FPA-2 includes this quote "we're going to sell the same number of CP Rail FA-2s as EVERYTHING ELSE COMBINED." - indicating a prime driver of the Rapido FA models is the Canadian modellers).
The same thing will likely happen again - Jason needs a MLW S-13 for Spadina (as he discussed in the latest Q&A), which means it is a very safe assumption at some point Rapido will make the S-13 given it has never been done before. But that will likely in turn result in Rapido making other members of the Alco/MLW S-? family that are common enough to share components.
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 11:43:08 GMT -8
Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer... I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do. Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree?
I think this viewpoint is well presented, and really suggest that you use the feedback form on the Rapido website to express this polite opinion to them so that Rapido can have the opportunity to at least consider it and possibly make changes.
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 12:23:58 GMT -8
The folks at Rapido read this, and other, forums. Once a comment is posted here, I see no reason to say it again, such as filling out a feedback form. It has already been heard.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by thebessemerkid on May 23, 2020 12:27:48 GMT -8
I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do. Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree?
I think this viewpoint is well presented, and really suggest that you use the feedback form on the Rapido website to express this polite opinion to them so that Rapido can have the opportunity to at least consider it and possibly make changes.
I'd rather hear concerns aired publicly. Do you work for or have any connection with Rapido?
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 12:28:45 GMT -8
mdvle,
I see. In summary, Rapido is especially interested in Canadian prototypes; and the US versions are a money-making afterthought. That's a good idea, making a profit and all that. It certainly doesn't do as an excuse for any design failures of the US versions.
Of course, you also mentioned the PA's, and noted that those locos go against this theory. Maybe the US only version will still bring in the bucks.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 12:29:54 GMT -8
The folks at Rapido read this, and other, forums. Once a comment is posted here, I see no reason to say it again, such as filling out a feedback form. It has already been heard. Rapido have made it clear that they no longer follow this forum, so no it hasn't already been heard.
While it is possible that an employee may occasionally browse still, there is no guarantee that they will come across and note any specific post.
So the best way, regardless of manufacturer, to make sure your opinion is read is to send it directly to the manufacturer.
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 12:32:26 GMT -8
I think this viewpoint is well presented, and really suggest that you use the feedback form on the Rapido website to express this polite opinion to them so that Rapido can have the opportunity to at least consider it and possibly make changes.
I'd rather hear concerns aired publicly. Do you work for or have any connection with Rapido?
1) I don't work for Rapido, and I have no connection to Rapido.
2) I didn't say to not post the concern on here, I merely suggested that they also present their concern to Rapido as well. Posting on a public forum may feel good, but it doesn't help to get your concerns addressed if the company remains unaware of your concerns.
|
|
|
Post by drsvelte on May 23, 2020 12:40:10 GMT -8
Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer... I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do.
Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree? I would only take issue with what you say with repect to what Rapido did with their Norfolk & Western RS-11s. Rapido added four road specific details which were unique to the N&S: 1. Three pane cab widows; 2. Louvered carbody air filter covers on the "as modified" model; 3. Top of hood sand filler hatches (and steps) instead of hatches in the notches; 4. A frame mounted toolbox. In particular, the cab windows and the boxy filter covers scream Norfolk & Western.
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 13:40:06 GMT -8
Rapido have made it clear that they no longer follow this forum, so no it hasn't already been heard.
While it is possible that an employee may occasionally browse still, there is no guarantee that they will come across and note any specific post. I wonder at the wisdom of Rapido not visiting forums to check the pulse of the customers. Or is it just this one? How do you know Rapido has made this decision? When was it? Did they indicate why they decided to stop following the forum? Lack of time? Lack of interest? Boring? Ed
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 14:10:03 GMT -8
Rapido have made it clear that they no longer follow this forum, so no it hasn't already been heard.
While it is possible that an employee may occasionally browse still, there is no guarantee that they will come across and note any specific post. I wonder at the wisdom of Rapido not visiting forums to check the pulse of the customers. Or is it just this one? I suspect it is just this one. How do you know Rapido has made this decision? When was it? Did they indicate why they decided to stop following the forum? Lack of time? Lack of interest? Boring?
It is a case of actions speak louder than words.
Specifically, Rapido (Jason) stopped posting.
Jason was last on this site 5 months ago (December 19th). It has been over 2 months for Bill, and he last posted in December. John Sheridan (chairmanmeow) last logged in over 2 months ago.
As for the why, consider what happened on this site in December.
More generally, even the Athearn guy has posted on here that they don't check the forums and other places regularly - they are busy doing their jobs. Thus posting on a public forum and assuming the manufacturer sees it is false. If you want a manufacturer to know your opinion, the only way is to send it to them directly.
|
|
|
Post by thebessemerkid on May 23, 2020 14:38:34 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 14:43:22 GMT -8
I see. In summary, Rapido is especially interested in Canadian prototypes; and the US versions are a money-making afterthought. That's a good idea, making a profit and all that. It certainly doesn't do as an excuse for any design failures of the US versions. Of course, you also mentioned the PA's, and noted that those locos go against this theory. Maybe the US only version will still bring in the bucks.
When I originally mentioned the MLW FPA-4's, it was in response to a complaint that Rapido had done the FA2's when there were reasonable models already available, vs the P40/42's where (in the original poster's opinion) no reasonable model yet exists.
As I said, not a secret that Rapido was founded because Jason needed Canadian prototype for his layout, and that has in the past and will continue for a bit longer to drive some of the product that they make.
But by the same token, if one watches the recently started Athearn Live videos the Q&A sections when discussing requests for models there is a lot of "that's one that I really want to". It is a benefit of either owning, or being in a senior enough position, at any of these hobby companies that your personal wants can influence what gets made.
That said, Rapido has also done (in the past, and more in the future) items that aren't for Jason's layout and reflect the interests of other employees, or reflect a feeling that there is an opening in the market. The USRA and NP boxcars for example won't have been seen in 1980 era Kingston sub. The Royal Hudson and the rest of the steam program were the result of requests from modellers and a belief that there would be a market for accurate Canadian steam (the jury is currently out on that belief). For the UK, the Gunpowder van was a project of Bill and Gareth until Brexit interfered. etc.
Specific to your comments.
I don't think the US versions are a "money-making afterthought" any more than Athearn offering Canadian versions of their models is a "money-making afterthought". Rapido have after all hired several American employees to better reflect the growing amount of American specific prototypes that they offer and will be offering more of the in the future.
And I (a lowly nobody not connected to Rapido in anyway) agree that design failures are a problem - and will at this point remind people that Rapido spent $15,000 to fix the cab mistake on the RS-11 and that while people caught the cab height nobody apparently noticed the fan in question...
But I will also point out that there is a difference between a mistake that creeps through, and the reality that the expected sales numbers of a model are such that everything can't be tooled. It is wise to consider the expected sales volumes, and the resulting influence on a tooling budget, of a popular and well selling model like a SD40-2 vs a more niche and lower selling prototype. When you know you can sell large numbers of models you can tool up more variations and still recoup the costs.
|
|
|
Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 14:47:50 GMT -8
Which begs the question, if you aren't willing to accept my answer why did you ask in the first place?
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 15:36:08 GMT -8
It is a case of actions speak louder than words. Specifically, Rapido (Jason) stopped posting. Jason was last on this site 5 months ago (December 19th). It has been over 2 months for Bill, and he last posted in December. John Sheridan (chairmanmeow) last logged in over 2 months ago. As for the why, consider what happened on this site in December. More generally, even the Athearn guy has posted on here that they don't check the forums and other places regularly - they are busy doing their jobs. Thus posting on a public forum and assuming the manufacturer sees it is false. If you want a manufacturer to know your opinion, the only way is to send it to them directly.
I suggest you not assume, because there haven't been recent posts from the Rapido crew, that they aren't on the forum. Rapido did not post on the topic of the SP&S/BN FA-2's, but I do know they were following it. So I know there is no need for me to write to them. They know very well my opinion on the matter. And I will say again that it would be irresponsible of a manufacturer not to follow the forums, ESPECIALLY the ones that allow negative criticism of manufacturers. I am not of the opinion that ignoring bad news is the best way to handle it. Ed
|
|