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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 8, 2020 12:12:18 GMT -8
I've got 4 newish BNSF C44-9W's (ScaleTrain--love 'em!).
And I know that a fair amount of the trains in my favorite neck o' the woods have lead locos and trailing. Two and two, or three and one, for example.
I am wondering if anyone has tried running trains like that. On DCC. And if they/you have, what advice to you have to give?
I would rather not regret doing something like this.
Ed
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Post by santafe49 on Apr 8, 2020 18:50:21 GMT -8
If you have the units speed matched, i don't see why it wouldn't be simple to do. Set them up in a consist together and give it a go. Trying to do it as "Manned Helpers" would be much more of a challenge, i would think.
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Post by Mark R. on Apr 8, 2020 18:51:36 GMT -8
I've run helpers on the rear of my trains actually using a second operator. The real trick is to only shove hard enough on the tail to push half the train. We've noted coupler slack running in and out mid train when being done properly. Push too hard and you can shove cars off the track. Don't push hard enough, the lead units can stringline the train on a curve. It's tricky, but do-able.
If you are wanting to do it by yourself, I'm not so sure the results would be very positive.
Mark.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 8, 2020 20:07:59 GMT -8
To be clear,I AM talking about a single operator: distributed power.
I am curious whether anyone has done it, and what they can tell me.
Ed
PS: thanks for your responses!
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Post by middledivision on Apr 9, 2020 7:50:22 GMT -8
We do it all the time at my club but our engines are speed matched. You still need to watch where you put the dpu
in he train. We did it in the old days before dcc and it required two operators and lots of guts!
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Post by jonklein611 on Apr 9, 2020 8:22:46 GMT -8
It's doable. On our digitrax system at the club, consist the front locos together, consist the DPU's together and run them on your two throttle inputs.
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Post by lajoiejacques on Apr 9, 2020 8:50:21 GMT -8
I did it using two Scale Trains SD40-3 on the head end and a Rapido Dash 8-40CM in the middle. Pulling a string of Auto Carriers.
Here is a vidéo
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Post by Gary P on Apr 9, 2020 9:02:28 GMT -8
I did it using two Scale Trains SD40-3 on the head end and a Rapido Dash 8-40CM in the middle. Pulling a string of Auto Carriers. Here is a vidéo Jacques - Very nice, looks to be professionally done!  The scenery is great too. So, how have you been? Long time no see. Did you just re-register under a new name? Gary. |
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Post by lajoiejacques on Apr 9, 2020 9:33:56 GMT -8
I Gary yes its been a long time I don't post much on forums these days. I had to re-register on this forum as my account was flushed for some unknown reasons. I am fine and staying safe from the virus. Glad to hear from you, take care
Jacques
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 9, 2020 11:22:54 GMT -8
We did it in the old days before dcc and it required two operators and lots of guts! Indeed. I was involved with such a DC run many years ago. It went quite well, until it didn't. Unfortunately, a number of my cars ended up on the floor. So I feel a bit wary now. When I try it again, it will likely be at a Free-mo setup, where the main track is "always" a foot away from the edge--much less risk. Ed |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 9, 2020 11:31:05 GMT -8
It's doable. On our digitrax system at the club, consist the front locos together, consist the DPU's together and run them on your two throttle inputs. Interesting. I was figuring on making a single consist of all four (separated by a train, of course). Which is what the real one is, I think. Single engineer! Ed |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 9, 2020 11:31:57 GMT -8
Jacques,
Thank you for the video--a very good demonstration that it can be done.
Ed
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Post by nsc39d8 on Apr 9, 2020 12:53:01 GMT -8
Ed,
I have tried this and it can be tricky at times, especially with slack action in the train. Make you consist with all four locomotives and get everything set the way you want it(lights, horns, braking so forth). If these have ESU sound I would autotune them as a consist all coupled together. This helps speed matching.
Now place the engines on the layout with the in the mu positions you want them, 2+2 of 3+1. Leave a three to four inch space between the front and rear locos and now run them on the layout. Pay close attention to the space between locos. This way you can see if one is running fast and insure they all are completely speed matched.
I use Sergent couplers between locos to reduce slack between them. I have also broken one Sergent coupler doing this as well. The rear locos stalled fro some reason and pulled hard on the rear. I think the coupler had a bad spot in it. Luckily no cars derailed.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 9, 2020 13:18:17 GMT -8
James,
Thanks. They ARE ESU, and I'll do what you say concerning autotune. They're also all the same model built at the same time at the factory, so they really SHOULD run well together.
DPU's with these locos seem to be mostly on grain trains--the brown worms. Looks like I've got a bit of work ahead. All of my worm segments are still in factory boxes.
Ed
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Post by nsc39d8 on Apr 9, 2020 15:19:30 GMT -8
Ed,
I have seen BNSF DPU's on several different trains. I highly recommend Virtual Railfan on YouTube. Several areas with BNSF with my favorite being Santa Fe Junction. La Plata, MO and Belen, NM are good for BNSF as well. There are cameras on all of the now operating Class 1's and Amtrak to watch.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 9, 2020 16:19:03 GMT -8
James,
In 2005, 2010 and2015, I spent several days lineside at Lyle WA recording traffic. I was planning on doing it again this year (note the pattern) but.....
Anyway.
The distributed power tends VERY strongly to be C44-9W's on grain and AC's on coal. There's also the oil trains, but I'm not modeling them (gotta stop somewhere).
The JB Hunt trains, the container trains, the general traffic and the garbage seem NOT to to use DPU's.
For all I know, things are different now. And also may be different in other locations. I surely wish there was a camera on BNSF along the Columbia.
Ed
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 11, 2020 9:36:59 GMT -8
No experience, but maybe adding lots of weight to your cars à la Mike Confalone will help with keeping the cars on the rails and giving your locomotives some work to do.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 11, 2020 11:24:30 GMT -8
Yeah, maybe. Also wide radius curves.
I can see there might be a real problem if the train is spanning two power districts, and one goes down. Actually, change that "might" to "will".
Ed
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Post by bnsf971 on Apr 13, 2020 1:19:57 GMT -8
Ed, here's what has worked for our club in the olden days of yore, before DCC.
Remove the knuckle from the coupler of the last car. The pusher engines are free to push, but if the head end starts pulling away, there will be no stringline.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 13, 2020 4:34:38 GMT -8
In that case it might be more practical to remove the end couplers from the pusher set. But it sounds like a good idea!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 13, 2020 8:46:11 GMT -8
Yes. It does sound interesting. And probably effective. And weird.
And interesting.
The locos I would be using all come equipped with "keep alive". That might help out with regard to a power district dropping out. I don't know the length of time that is, though. I assume if someone derails and there's a consequent dead short, power's gone until the derailment is fixed--could be awhile. I guess a follow-on question for a guy like me would be whether the EMERGENCY STOP will still work. My guess is no.
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Apr 13, 2020 9:29:24 GMT -8
Yes. It does sound interesting. And probably effective. And weird. And interesting. The locos I would be using all come equipped with "keep alive". That might help out with regard to a power district dropping out. I don't know the length of time that is, though. I assume if someone derails and there's a consequent dead short, power's gone until the derailment is fixed--could be awhile. I guess a follow-on question for a guy like me would be whether the EMERGENCY STOP will still work. My guess is no. Ed E stop works only if the loco is receiving signals. |
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The scenery is great too.
