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Post by oldmuley on May 14, 2020 12:50:54 GMT -8
I'm to the point where I'd like to install some quality switch panels on may layout. For many years, I've just had toggle switches attached to the facia panel and that's been fine as long as I remember what switch controls what turnout. The thing is, I'd like to take the quality up a notch as well as make the layout a little more usable for visitors. I'm not using a central control panel for anything at this point. Do you guys have any suggestions or sources of inspiration?
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 14, 2020 17:26:11 GMT -8
Make whatever you do intuitively obvious. Fer example, you might place your switch controllers exactly opposite the track switch positions. It pretty quickly becomes obvious what controls what. And, of course, you make all the switch controllers the same, and you make them different looking than other controllers.
The extent of how much you centralize your controls depends on how you want to run your trains. If you want to walk along with them, then you generally will have the controls spread all over the layout. If you want to sit on a nice chair and run trains all over the layout, then you'll need a centralized spot. And, of course, there's versions in between. So you probably should be thinking on how you want to operate the layout. And how many people you'll include. And how often you want to play just by yourself.
The controls should be there to serve YOU. And THEM.
A neat and clean and clear installation is also important. It sets a tone. And it's also easier to understand, because there's consistency.
Ed
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Post by ambluco on May 15, 2020 3:42:41 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on May 15, 2020 5:43:52 GMT -8
Looks pricey. I did a little poking around but didn't see panel prices, mostly components. Will dig somemore.
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Post by edgecrusher on May 15, 2020 6:07:20 GMT -8
I'll second that. Really quality product and the cool factor is thru the roof. I find another benefit of these is the flush mount, you can't accidentally bump them with an elbow or catch a sleeve on them. Like Jim said they are a bit pricey compared to a traditional toggle switch but I feel like they're worth it. Of course I can say this as my layout is very small. If I had a room or basement sized layout I'd no doubt feel differently. |
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Post by ambluco on May 15, 2020 6:34:04 GMT -8
You use what you want for the panels - I use a standard photo frame from Michaels. I settled on a specific size and use them everywhere (4 places). Many articles around and they have made many new parts. Like one touch toggle alines multiple switches.
Anyway
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Post by riogrande on May 15, 2020 7:55:03 GMT -8
Ah, I was thinking some how they offered those cool panels but duh, they will be different for every layout.
I'm going to try to go manual thrown turnouts for most of mine and hopefully can eliminate the need for having to design and built a panel like that, as nifty as it looks.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 15, 2020 8:22:11 GMT -8
Some of the local Free-mo modules are pretty complex, and use control panels for their track switches*. There's the usual track diagram, of course. In each diverging track at a switch, a green led is placed in the "normal" track, and a red in the "diverging" track. At the intersection is a pushbutton. Push the button--the switch position changes as well as the illumination of the LED's. You COULD, of course, get the same effect with LED's of the same color; but that's less, uh, colorful. Cost for each switch location looks to be $3 (see Amazon for "panel mount LED" and "panel mount push button"). Or less. There is always at least two control panels for each module--one for each side--it's a rule. There are no relays. For a built-in-place layout, this system would allow you to have both a central control panel, plus assorted local ones. Lotta wires--you've been warned. I believe there's also a DCC system for this. You get rid of most of the wiring (yea!) but you then have to deal with a computer and digital logic and programming (anti-yea!). And electronic "modules" all over the place, at some expense. Down the rabbit hole: www.jmri.org/help/en/html/apps/PanelPro/PanelPro.shtmlEd *For "regular" Free-mo modules, there is a pushbutton on either side of a module, one location for each switch. The PB's are usually located dead-opposite the switch, so it's tough to misinterpret. Because you're only a foot or two away from the switch when you throw it, there are no lit indictors. One person, however, with a very long module set, is considering doing that. Then he can look "down there", and see if he has to make the trek to throw the other switch of the siding. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 15, 2020 8:30:14 GMT -8
Jim's comment about manual throw reminds me:
On a Free-mo module, you have to be able to throw a switch from either side. I know of at least one module where regular old Caboose ground throws are used. Works fine. Two drawbacks: they don't look scale, at all. And every time you reach over to throw the switch, you risk damaging the scenery. Of course, YOU wouldn't do THAT, would you?
I also recall a very nice layout where the builder used the Caboose ground throws, but he placed them "on" the fascia. Thus they didn't show on the layout itself. Very cool. He threw the points with rods through brass tubing. And maybe occasionally that flexy cable stuff, for the up-and-over locations. An EXCELLENT solution, I say.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on May 15, 2020 9:24:25 GMT -8
Jim's comment about manual throw reminds me: On a Free-mo module, you have to be able to throw a switch from either side. I know of at least one module where regular old Caboose ground throws are used. Works fine. Two drawbacks: they don't look scale, at all. And every time you reach over to throw the switch, you risk damaging the scenery. Of course, YOU wouldn't do THAT, would you? Ed Not having a Free-mo module and a back drop to reach over helps. My plans are to manually throw Peco's with the finger flick between the rails - not much scenery to damage there. Well, that's the theory anyway. I do have a some old Caboose ground throws I will probably use on some older turnouts in the industrial part of the yard where the ground will be flat except for the odd weed. We'll we don't like weeds anyway - but they just keep growing back. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 15, 2020 9:55:36 GMT -8
Not having a Free-mo module and a back drop to reach over helps. I've never seen a backdrop on a Free-mo module. It's just not done. But when you have some trees and a building and maybe a couple of crossing bucks.......... I have seen a guy snap off a phone pole on a neighboring module, when he was doing a fix on his own. I have seen a guy wearing a long-sleeve shirt (yes, it was chilly) reaching into a module, right next to a VERY hard to replace (expensive) signal bridge. He was lucky. Free-mo standard S4.10 says: "All turnout frogs shall be powered. Turnouts shall not rely on switch points to power the frog." Just wondering. Do these Peco switches use the points to power the frog? Ed |
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Post by riogrande on May 15, 2020 11:21:27 GMT -8
Not having a Free-mo module and a back drop to reach over helps. I've never seen a backdrop on a Free-mo module. It's just not done. Hmmm. Maybe I've never been to a proper Free-mo meet. Out here in the wild, we in these parts seem to have modular layouts at local shows and at Timonium which actually have backdrops. Anyway, they usually have a roped to keep the riff-raff away from the trains and walk along side from the outside so they can work turnouts that way if need by I assume. There are two types of Peco turnouts, Insulfrog and Electrofrog. Insulfrog have plastic frogs so cannot be powered. I would guess based on your S4.10 standard they would be Verboten. The electrofrog type may have a few options, I haven't studied up on all of them but I've decided I'll be relying on Hex Frog Juicers (a DCC only product) to power my electrofrogs. These type of turnouts have a wire attached to them and can be powered depending on what is chosen. I think they can be powered via the power routing switch machines, like Tortoise, or the Hex Frog Juicer, my choice. The Frog Juicer senses the change in points and sends the right power to the frog. Forgive my cave man description - I don't have the instructions in front of me for the proper verbiage. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 15, 2020 12:08:23 GMT -8
Free-mo setups are kind of free-form, with the designer assembling the track plan any way he/she pleases. Well, it's gotta WORK, too. Here's an overhead view of part of a typical setup being set up. The boxes and such will be put away befor trains start running.:  The last one I attended was a little more closed in, so the civilians could view around the outer edges, but couldn't come in through the "inlet" uninvited. We did escort a number of people inside, though. We didn't have a rope or anything (except at the inlet), and I don't recall any problems. People were very respectful. You can also see why we need switch controls at both sides of a module. You never know how your module(s) is going to be fit in with all the others. The one "turn around loop" module I'm familiar with has three control panels: one on each side of the wye switch, plus one internally. If someone makes a real wye module, there'll have to be three control panels, though if it's simply a wye switch only, the need for a "real" panel isn't much. Ed |
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Post by oldmuley on May 21, 2020 19:25:49 GMT -8
Here is a mock-up of one of my ideas for a switch panel. The colored dots will be replaced with bi-color LEDs, once they come come in the mail.  |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on May 21, 2020 23:40:49 GMT -8
So the colours will either be as shown, or with two green on the mains and a red on the crossover? And a single toggle is a good idea. I have seen railroads where both switches in a crossover had separate toggles on the fascia... silly.
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Post by oldmuley on May 22, 2020 7:07:52 GMT -8
So the colours will either be as shown, or with two green on the mains and a red on the crossover? And a single toggle is a good idea. I have seen railroads where both switches in a crossover had separate toggles on the fascia... silly. That’s the idea. The lights on the main would be green and the switch would be red for running on the main. Once the switch is thrown the colors would reverse. I spent a good chunk of time this week working out the wiring for the circuit to make as simple as possible. Parts should start arriving today, so I’ll post more photos as things progress. |
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Post by jonklein611 on May 22, 2020 15:18:15 GMT -8
+1 for single toggles on crossovers. My club puts the switch where your green dot is and a LED on each switch location. Green for main, red for thrown.
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