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Post by keystonefarm on Jun 8, 2020 17:23:17 GMT -8
Saw a post on another forum that included a letter from Mike Wolfe of MTH. He announced his retirement in 2021 and the closing of MTH. That's a big manufacturer to lose for this hobby. Possibility of a sale to some employees but nothing mentioned other than the possibility. -------- Ken
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 8, 2020 17:59:37 GMT -8
MTH was the textbook case that in O scale, you could literally throw any paint scheme, on any car, and people would eat it up. I really wonder if the O scale market is shrinking down. The bottom fell out of Lionel a few years ago. G scale followed shortly after with the fall of Aristocraft.
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Post by trainworm on Jun 8, 2020 18:12:31 GMT -8
Best news all year.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 8, 2020 18:39:26 GMT -8
Don't we have an MTH employee who posts here on the forum? Maybe he can give us some scoop.
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 8, 2020 18:48:00 GMT -8
ATSFAN will be crushed.
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Post by slowfreight on Jun 8, 2020 18:50:07 GMT -8
Say what you want, but who else did a non-brass Little Joe in HO? I'm sure that the market would have absorbed another run of those. Yes, the stuff they did in HO was a little quirky, but when credit is due...
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Post by carrman on Jun 8, 2020 19:37:12 GMT -8
Say what you want, but who else did a non-brass Little Joe in HO? I'm sure that the market would have absorbed another run of those. Yes, the stuff they did in HO was a little quirky, but when credit is due... Lets hope someone picks up that tooling. It was a great model without that horrid DCS!!! |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 8, 2020 19:38:17 GMT -8
I've said this a few times, but at my 65-member club we register our locomotives. We currently have just over 2000 locos on that roster. Precisely six of them are MTH: 3 NS Heritage units, 2 PA's, and 1 Triplex. That's it. Kinda telling, isn't it?
MTH, if they do indeed go out of business with Mike's retirement, will be remembered for:
Cons:
1) Overselling their goods when they came on the HO market ("MTH will revolutionize the hobby!")
2) Getting busted using a shill on the old Atlas Forum.
3) Lying in their advertisements (specifically about NMRA Standards and DCC).
4) Toy-like features (remote uncoupling, clunky details, etc.).
5) Suing (or threatening to sue) everyone for any reason.
Pros:
A) Made some rare prototypes.
B) Counter-sued Union Pacific and stopped the UP licensing fiasco for not only them but for all hobby manufacturers.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 8, 2020 19:43:14 GMT -8
There's an O scale sub-forum here. And yet there's no mention of this event over there. Strange, as I thought MTH was mostly for the O people.
Anyway.
For me in HO, I never once was tempted by anything MTH offered. Ever.
So Mike quitting the business is a non-event to me.
Ed
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Post by bdhicks on Jun 8, 2020 20:14:05 GMT -8
I'm a bit surprised just because I figured MTH was a big enough that it would just continue on after Mike retired. Though it sounds rather like he has a buyout offer from his current staff and he's just putting out feelers to see he can get more money somewhere else.
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Post by thunderhawk on Jun 8, 2020 21:25:16 GMT -8
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 9, 2020 0:21:41 GMT -8
My guess is the tooling will re-appear in time, a lot of tools have nine lives, like now Lionel offering what were once Marx HO pieces. I own no MTH and I've never attempted to sell it. I think it was their GP35 I looked at and even as a closeout it was still going to cost me about what they were selling for on eBay.
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 9, 2020 1:54:36 GMT -8
Perhaps another company will pick on how MTH handrails were made and follow suit.
My MTH locomotives were great to run at shows. The kids loved running them and you could put any two locomotives together and they ran great. No need for time consuming speed matching.
However, their parts and service dept had a lot to be desired.
I wish Mike all the best on his retirement.
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Post by brakie on Jun 9, 2020 2:30:55 GMT -8
Guys, I thought about buying a DCC/Sound equipped MTH GP38-2 until I saw one at a train show.. Frankly and IMHO a older BB or LL P2K GP38-2 looked better in my eyes. I ended up buying two used Atlas Classic NS HH GP38s @ $50.00 each for the price of one MHT GP38-2 @ $99.99 show stopper price.
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Post by peoriaman on Jun 9, 2020 3:58:50 GMT -8
There's an O scale sub-forum here. And yet there's no mention of this event over there. Strange, as I thought MTH was mostly for the O people. Sure, but there hasn't been a post there in a year and a half. Maybe O-scalers don't believe in the internets? |
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Post by thunderhawk on Jun 9, 2020 4:07:04 GMT -8
Considering there are 5 pages of posts about MTH at the forum that caters to O scaler's I guess they go where the traffic is.
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Post by brammy on Jun 9, 2020 4:08:53 GMT -8
My main complaint with MTH was their decoders. If they used a normal decoder, I would like their products,
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Post by jonklein611 on Jun 9, 2020 4:10:15 GMT -8
Their passenger cars were actually really nice. I have the N&W set and it looks / runs great.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 9, 2020 4:34:43 GMT -8
I don't believe I have any MTH products so the closure won't affect me, but it does sound like the door is open for the tooling and intellectual property to be taken over and MTH products continued, possibly by an employee or another company could absorb it. The good thing about the announcement is they have given a year notice and even after MTH stops shipping new product, they will provide a year of warrenty service. Some companies we've seen close up shop, just *poof* and then *crickets*. This at least is a controlled closure with plenty of notice. There's an O scale sub-forum here. And yet there's no mention of this event over there. Strange, as I thought MTH was mostly for the O people. Sure, but there hasn't been a post there in a year and a half. Maybe O-scalers don't believe in the internets? Or they just don't come to this forum. The N-scale forum has very little activity here too, but Trainboard has quite an active N community as MRH forums as well. I expect there are a few gathering places of O people. It just never reached a critical mass here. |
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Post by stevewagner on Jun 9, 2020 4:40:23 GMT -8
The only MTH items on my roster are a half dozen of their New York Central Empire State Express cars, a five-car set and one single car of another type, I think the baggage-lounge. I think they're excellent replicas of the real cars, full scale length, very nicely done. I would have liked to get more but never did. If I ever retire and join a club and want to run a longer train, I could add AHM/Rivarossi and perhaps Walthers cars that are an exact match for at least one or two types and fairly close for some others.
My main modeling interest is Delaware & Hudson, followed by Boston & Maine. But several of my relatives worked for the Edward G. Budd Manufacturing Co. in Philadelphia. And I've ridden in Empire State Express coaches in the early 1960s, when my family had to take a night southbound train from Whitehall to Albany and change to NYC coaches there, and again in recent years on an excursion on the Livonia, Avon & Lakeville.
I have no experience with MTH locos. My Empire State Express 4-6-4 with simulated stainless streamlining is and old Rivarossi I bought used, with the old, deep European flanges -- one reason my small home layout still has Code 100 rails. My PA's (and E units and many others) are Life-Like Proto 2000's.
If I'm recalling correctly, Mike did the hobby a service is disputing Union Pacific's attempt to control the marketing of models of its equipment.
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Post by craigz on Jun 9, 2020 4:42:22 GMT -8
I've said for a while that MTH made some nice locomotives that were saddled with lousy electronics. Their FA2 has some good nose contours as does their PA. I gutted and redecodered a PA for a friend - I didn't know it was possible to put that much wire in an HO model...laid end to end I bet there was about a yard/meter of wire in the thing. It ran nicely once I got a good decoder in it...
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 9, 2020 6:21:29 GMT -8
MTH's HO stuff was a mixed bag. Their diesels were fairly generic, though their more modern offerings like the Dash 9, Gevo and SD70ACe were pretty nice models, though maybe not as finally detailed as say Genesis or Scaletrains. Their steam models were quite nice and on par or better than anything offered by Broadway Limited. The Achilles heel was their electronics and their DCS decoders that, even though they would "run" on DCC, could be very troublesome to program. For a steam locomotive that generally would run by itself, this wasn't an issue, but trying to consist an MTH with another brand could be difficult. I know many people who swapped the MTH decoder for ESU and those engines run fantastic.
I do hope someone picks up their tooling, particularly their steam. Their Berkshire, SP GS-4, Big Boy, Challenger and Mikado were particularly nice, among others.
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Post by es80ac on Jun 9, 2020 6:31:33 GMT -8
I liked MTH's Bipolar and Allegheny. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to buy their Little Joe yet.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 9, 2020 6:55:37 GMT -8
The only MTH I might ever be interested in is the SP GS-4 as I got to see it come thru town when I was living in Davis CA.
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 9, 2020 8:59:46 GMT -8
The O-Scale forum here is dead. There hasn't been a post about anything since December 2018. There's an O scale sub-forum here. And yet there's no mention of this event over there. Strange, as I thought MTH was mostly for the O people. Anyway. For me in HO, I never once was tempted by anything MTH offered. Ever. So Mike quitting the business is a non-event to me. Ed |
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Post by BEDT26 on Jun 9, 2020 12:29:47 GMT -8
Breaking News From MTH Electric Trains
Customers,
June 8, 2020 - First, on behalf of M.T.H. Electric Trains, I want to thank you for the support and encouragement you have shown my company over our 40-year journey. From humble beginnings and a lot of hard work, we were able to build one of the world's largest model train manufacturers - one unquestionably buoyed by your unwavering support.
In particular, I am proud that M.T.H. has released more models than any train manufacturer in the history of our hobby. The variety, quality, and infusion of technology throughout our offerings allowed M.T.H. Electric Trains to help bring enjoyment to all who share our wonderful hobby.
It is, therefore, with mixed emotions that I tell you I have decided to retire in 2021 and close the business. The last two M.T.H. catalogs, our 2020 Volume 2 O Gauge catalog, and our 2020 HO catalog and all non-delivered items from our 2020 Volume 1 O Gauge catalog, 2020 Ready-to-Run Train Set catalog, 2019-2020 S Gauge catalog, and 2019-2020 G Gauge catalog will feature the last products produced by M.T.H. Electric Trains.
The new items featured in all these catalogs will be available beginning Summer 2020 through April 2021 and will carry our limited one-year warranty supported by our Authorized Service Center network and the M.T.H. Service Department. Upon our closing in May 2021, our ASC network will provide warranty coverage through April 2022. A list of M.T.H. Authorized Service Centers is available on the M.T.H. website and will be updated as M.T.H. Authorized Retailers join the program over the coming months.
M.T.H. Electric Trains would not have enjoyed success without the support of the M.T.H. Authorized Retailer network. While traditional retail has changed significantly over the past decade, the independent hobby shop has been and continues to be the most important cog in our distribution chain. I truly appreciate the support and friendship these shops have shown M.T.H. I wish all of them good luck and prosperity in the years to come.
Finally, I want to thank all of my employees for their hard work over the years. Most of them have been with me for decades and their loyalty and talents were paramount to our success.
With thousands of tools and molds and a wealth of intellectual property, a new model railroading company may arise from my former company as I entertain various options and buyers. One scenario is a new company organized and owned by members of my current staff. Their decades of experience, work ethic, and creative talent will ensure success regardless of who owns the assets while providing a welcome bridge between the past 40 years and the future.
The remainder of my time will be busy as we clear out inventory and other miscellaneous items accumulated over the past 40 years. As that process evolves, we’ll be offering consumer and retailer purchase opportunities
Again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for your loyal support for all these years.
Mike Wolf, President
M.T.H. Electric Trains
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jun 9, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -8
I will have to add that the only item I have from MTH is a passenger car in N&W. I got it on a consignment sale for about 1/2 off. I was really tempted by the MTH Dash 9's ass they were the most correct model at that time for NS, I never got one. I did not like the MTH digital stuff either and talked to a lot of modelers that had to change everything out. As Craig Z mentioned MTH had a lot of wiring stuffed in a HO shell.
If this company does continue under another name I hope they go back to straight DCC. I am not really at a big loss for them closing.
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Post by ddatrainman on Jun 9, 2020 18:05:25 GMT -8
Guess this will be the end for anything mass produced subway wise in HO & O. was hoping for more subway stuff in HO from their previous O offerings. Was not a fan of their electronics, did own a DC GEVO at one point thought it was a nice engine, ran well, Handrails were good but that was about it.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 10, 2020 22:28:16 GMT -8
Something just does not seem right here. Why would Mike just walk away from the business. I wonder if there is some angle where he is looking for a buyer. The company has to be worth something. Just going out of business with a series of liquidation sales seems strange. Wouldn't he at least sell the tooling?
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Post by Christian on Jun 11, 2020 2:46:17 GMT -8
Something just does not seem right here. Why would Mike just walk away from the business. I wonder if there is some angle where he is looking for a buyer. The company has to be worth something. Just going out of business with a series of liquidation sales seems strange. Wouldn't he at least sell the tooling? I'm sure that there are things going on that are still beyond our wildest guesses. On another list a real estate person looked up the warehouse sale. Wolf did very, very well. My guess is that the company will be sold in chunks because I don't think there are any pockets in this business deep enough to buy everything. Maybe Bachmann does with the production possibilities available to Bachmann's Chinese principals. Lionel, Atlas, Horizon, and Walthers as well as Bachmann could probably buy chunks that have synergy with their existing businesses. And then there is the whole DTS line that has no traction in HO but is pretty much the de facto standard in larger scales. The Rapido/MTH speculations are interesting because I can't think of any two companies that are so different from the ground up and inside/out. Fundamentally, I wonder if Jason would have the will to become that large a business. Whatever becomes of MTH I'm sure we are in for months and years of joyful speculation!  |
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