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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 1, 2020 20:31:39 GMT -8
Good lord! Can us more modern guys get a car every once in a while? As soon as you guys find out it doesn't fit 60's or 70's, you throw a fit and declare you're going to sniff glue? Give me a break. -Dave Sense of humor much? Didn't you ever see the movie "Airplane" |
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Post by westerntrains on Jul 1, 2020 22:13:41 GMT -8
This countdown to the teaser bait-and-switch business is silly. Just get on with it. Couldn't agree more. Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of the antics already. They talk an awfully big game for a company that has made a grand total of ONE model, which while nice, had some fairly high-profile mistakes as well. As someone who models 2010+, odds are I'm probably not going to 'need' whatever it is. Even if it turns out to be something I could justify one or two of if I really wanted to, I most likely won't bother. I'd much rather spend my limited hobby dollars on a company that is going to be up front about what they are trying to sell me. These teaser's are tiresome. Be like Tanget, announce the car whens it's available. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jul 2, 2020 0:44:08 GMT -8
Couldn't agree more. Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of the antics already. They talk an awfully big game for a company that has made a grand total of ONE model, which while nice, had some fairly high-profile mistakes as well. As someone who models 2010+, odds are I'm probably not going to 'need' whatever it is. Even if it turns out to be something I could justify one or two of if I really wanted to, I most likely won't bother. I'd much rather spend my limited hobby dollars on a company that is going to be up front about what they are trying to sell me. These teaser's are tiresome. Be like Tanget, announce the car whens it's available. Yes, just get on with it. |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2020 4:27:50 GMT -8
Good lord! Can us more modern guys get a car every once in a while? As soon as you guys find out it doesn't fit 60's or 70's, you throw a fit and declare you're going to sniff glue? Give me a break. -Dave Sense of humor much? Didn't you ever see the movie "Airplane" |
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Post by choochooboy on Jul 2, 2020 7:20:39 GMT -8
I just want to offer our perspective on announcement trailers, and why we choose to use them.
Context:
Arrowhead Models has not had an all new-freight car release in nearly two years. Like many, we were affected by the Chinese factory-closure. Although this is a trial for anyone, when one is a new business, losing a factory relationship is a major set-back. Additionally, COVID outbreaks in China are another source of delays. This hasn't just affected us due to actual factory closures themselves (which happened), but also closures to supply and transportation chains up-stream. My point is: starting a business is difficult under good circumstances. We feel fortunate to have navigated those obstacles successfully enough that we are in a position to make an announcement. But--the reality is that we are still two years between announcements with company that is still unfamiliar to many.
So:
With that kind of distance between freight car releases, we post a message on our social media: "It is happening again. More information on July 1." That's it. This is the totality of the message. It's hard to imagine constructing a message that is more to the point or has less frills. And, after two years, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to shake the dust off the social media accounts just to say 'head's up!'.
Then:
We post a two minute trailer--which, among other things, tells people that the announcement is includes a live unveiling from Lombard. If we are going to have a live unveiling at all, there has to be some kind of action to let people know about it, right? I mean, how does it benefit anyone to have a live unveiling in secret?
And, that's it. From the beginning of time to the present moment, that is literally the sum total of the advertising or teasing or communication or anything and everything else, however you want to call it, on this announcement. It is the sum total of what we have done to date.
Yet:
There are people on this thread who are like "Oh my gosh, it is too much! I can't take it!"
And the message back to me is: "We want companies that don't advertise: no heads up, no communication. Just surprise us with everything we want and shut up and go away until you are ready to give us more of what we want." Do I have this wrong?
Our position:
We believe in the value of communication. If something is upcoming, we believe that our customers benefit by having even a small measure of look ahead or awareness. We believe that the business model of announcing a project that doesn't deliver for a year or more is broken. That said, we also believe that springing a project onto a group of people without any notice whatsoever or without any communication whatsoever isn't better either--particularly in the current economic climate. We make an effort to balance the virtues of these two systems, and we will continue to do so. We try to give people enough information in these trailers that, among other things, they can make a decision as to whether it will be an announcement that speaks to their interests. We try to make it fun. We pour a drink and we tell a joke. The communication streams aren't not being foisted upon anyone. You can choose to participate or you can choose not to participate, and we believe that this is a good thing too.
Finally, we believe in working with our dealers to provide a better experience for everyone, and I hope that our efforts to do this with Lombard speak to our belief that dealers have value to both the customer and manufacturers alike. That requires communication of some kind, and we have made that communication one time. And, to do that, we need to look like Arrowhead and be Arrowhead because that is what Arrowhead is doing.
My best,
Blaine Hadfield
Arrowhead Models
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Post by lars on Jul 2, 2020 8:53:19 GMT -8
I just want to offer our perspective on announcement trailers, and why we choose to use them. Context: Arrowhead Models has not had all new-freight car release in nearly two years. Like many, we were affected by the Chinese factory-closure. Although this is a trial for anyone, when one is a new business, losing a factory relationship is a major set-back. Additionally, COVID outbreaks in China are another source of delays. This hasn't just affected us due to actual factory closures themselves (which happened), but also closures to supply and transportation chains up-stream. My point is: starting a business is difficult under good circumstances. We feel fortunate to have navigated those obstacles successfully enough that we are in a position to make an announcement. But--the reality is that we are still two years between announcements with company that is still unfamiliar to many. So: With that kind of distance between freight car releases, we post a message on our social media: " It is happening again. More information on July 1." That's it. This is the totality of the message. It's hard to imagine constructing a message that is more to the point or has less frills. And, after two years, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to shake the dust off the social media accounts just to say 'head's up!'. Then: We post a two minute trailer--which, among other things, tells people that the announcement is includes a live unveiling from Lombard. If we are going to have a live unveiling at all, there has to be some kind of action to let people know about it, right? I mean, how does it benefit anyone to have a live unveiling in secret? And, that's it. From the beginning of time to the present moment, that is literally the sum total of the advertising or teasing or communication or anything and everything else, however you want to call it, on this announcement. It is the sum total of what we have done to date. Yet: There are people on this thread who are like "Oh my gosh, it is too much! I can't take it!" And the message back to me is: "We want companies that don't advertise: no heads up, no communication. Just surprise us with everything we want and shut up and go away until you are ready to give us more of what we want." Do I have this wrong? Our position: We believe in the value of communication. If something is upcoming, we believe that our customers benefit by having even a small measure of look ahead or awareness. We believe that the business model of announcing a project that doesn't deliver for a year or more is broken. That said, we also believe that springing a project onto a group of people without any notice whatsoever or without any communication whatsoever isn't better either--particularly in the current economic climate. We make an effort to balance the virtues of these two systems, and we will continue to do so. We try to give people enough information in these trailers that, among other things, they can make a decision as to whether it will be an announcement that speaks to their interests. We try to make it fun. We pour a drink and we tell a joke. The communication streams aren't not being foisted upon anyone. You can choose to participate or you can choose not to participate, and we believe that this is a good thing too. Finally, we believe in working with our dealers to provide a better experience for everyone, and I hope that our efforts to do this with Lombard speak to our belief that dealers have value to both the customer and manufacturers alike. That requires communication of some kind, and we have made that communication one time. And, to do that, we need to look like Arrowhead and be Arrowhead because that is what Arrowhead is doing. My best, Blaine Hadfield Arrowhead Models I, and I assure many others, understand that things have been incredibly challenging for bringing a product to market over the past few years and I don't think anyone on this board is faulting a company (especially a new one) for taking time to get new products to the market. As much as I agree with you rationale, I find it quite over the top. Dusting off the social media accounts is certainly helpful on your end, but the way you're doing it is rather pretentious. I see no problem with anyone posting a blast that they're announcing a model on a given date. I may even watch. But if you want to get the social media gears going again give us the relevant info up front and say it a few times. We'll appreciate the reminder that the real news comes on July 10th. The video....it's well....pretty pompous. I appreciate great models, but I'm not buying the pitch. If your new model is as great as you hope and claim, I'm sure the modeling community will buy it in droves. But I don't need to be told that; I can figure out how important it is myself. And when it comes to customer experience, it's still an HO freight car. Unless you're that small fraction that has desperately wanted it for years, it's one step above a commodity. We've been blessed with great models from many companies and in most cases I can satisfactorily allocate my funds across a wide range of products most of the time. Regarding experience, I'm happy if a freight car 1) meets my expectations of quality at a given pricepoint, 2) shows up when you said it would, and 3) doesn't arrive broken. I don't need much else. It's not iPhones you're making here. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 2, 2020 8:54:45 GMT -8
I just want to offer our perspective on announcement trailers, and why we choose to use them. Context: Arrowhead Models has not had an all new-freight car release in nearly two years. Like many, we were affected by the Chinese factory-closure. Although this is a trial for anyone, when one is a new business, losing a factory relationship is a major set-back. Additionally, COVID outbreaks in China are another source of delays. This hasn't just affected us due to actual factory closures themselves (which happened), but also closures to supply and transportation chains up-stream. My point is: starting a business is difficult under good circumstances. We feel fortunate to have navigated those obstacles successfully enough that we are in a position to make an announcement. But--the reality is that we are still two years between announcements with company that is still unfamiliar to many. So: With that kind of distance between freight car releases, we post a message on our social media: " It is happening again. More information on July 1." That's it. This is the totality of the message. It's hard to imagine constructing a message that is more to the point or has less frills. And, after two years, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to shake the dust off the social media accounts just to say 'head's up!'. Then: We post a two minute trailer--which, among other things, tells people that the announcement is includes a live unveiling from Lombard. If we are going to have a live unveiling at all, there has to be some kind of action to let people know about it, right? I mean, how does it benefit anyone to have a live unveiling in secret? And, that's it. From the beginning of time to the present moment, that is literally the sum total of the advertising or teasing or communication or anything and everything else, however you want to call it, on this announcement. It is the sum total of what we have done to date. Yet: There are people on this thread who are like "Oh my gosh, it is too much! I can't take it!" And the message back to me is: "We want companies that don't advertise: no heads up, no communication. Just surprise us with everything we want and shut up and go away until you are ready to give us more of what we want." Do I have this wrong? Our position: We believe in the value of communication. If something is upcoming, we believe that our customers benefit by having even a small measure of look ahead or awareness. We believe that the business model of announcing a project that doesn't deliver for a year or more is broken. That said, we also believe that springing a project onto a group of people without any notice whatsoever or without any communication whatsoever isn't better either--particularly in the current economic climate. We make an effort to balance the virtues of these two systems, and we will continue to do so. We try to give people enough information in these trailers that, among other things, they can make a decision as to whether it will be an announcement that speaks to their interests. We try to make it fun. We pour a drink and we tell a joke. The communication streams aren't not being foisted upon anyone. You can choose to participate or you can choose not to participate, and we believe that this is a good thing too. Finally, we believe in working with our dealers to provide a better experience for everyone, and I hope that our efforts to do this with Lombard speak to our belief that dealers have value to both the customer and manufacturers alike. That requires communication of some kind, and we have made that communication one time. And, to do that, we need to look like Arrowhead and be Arrowhead because that is what Arrowhead is doing. My best, Blaine Hadfield Arrowhead Models You just keep doing you, and we'll all see the results when it comes out. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Jul 2, 2020 9:26:38 GMT -8
Blaine, I know I'll probably buy at least five of these when you announce them if you don't just do them as-delivered. With that said, I don't think we as a collective are upset about the "heads up", rather the way that it was bread crumbed. I think you could have just sprang the video on us as enough of a heads up, instead of having a post exclaiming July 1st!! July 1st! It sent our expectations sky high, and didn't deliver.
In eight days I'm sure all will be forgiven, but a simple update doesn't have to be done in two segments for most of us.
I'm still excited.
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 2, 2020 11:01:16 GMT -8
The fable of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. If Arrowhead keeps stringing the audience along without delivering there is danger of losing the audience. Just something to keep in mind before crying wolf again with the next announcement.
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nini
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Post by nini on Jul 2, 2020 11:17:39 GMT -8
Are you guys out of your minds? As a small business owner myself and someone who works closely with small businesses, there is not a consultant on the face of the planet who would advise a small company not to beat the absolute living hell out of the marketing drum. You guys are literally mad at Blaine for doing the things that companies do. He's trying to grow his business and reach out to new people, and you don't do that by being quiet.
M.W.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jul 2, 2020 11:56:10 GMT -8
I too was looking forward to learning of the supposed new release yesterday. But Mr Blaine, you've done such a good job promoting your box that it has become a running joke around here. Since you're not yet ready to announce what's inside, humour us -- let's hear about the box!  |
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 2, 2020 13:10:56 GMT -8
The fable of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. If Arrowhead keeps stringing the audience along without delivering there is danger of losing the audience. Just something to keep in mind before crying wolf again with the next announcement. We should all agree to be completely silent when the announcement finally comes. Total radio silence. Crickets. Maybe we'll buy a few cars, maybe not. But nary a post on the 'ol internets! |
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jul 2, 2020 13:22:49 GMT -8
The fable of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. If Arrowhead keeps stringing the audience along without delivering there is danger of losing the audience. Just something to keep in mind before crying wolf again with the next announcement. We should all agree to be completely silent when the announcement finally comes. Total radio silence. Crickets. Maybe we'll buy a few cars, maybe not. But nary a post on the 'ol internets! Nah, won't happen. We need the obligatory 8-pages of thread to proclaim to all whether or not the item fits "my" era and to discuss COTS stencil data. |
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Post by wp8thsub on Jul 2, 2020 15:21:44 GMT -8
 Wow, this thread is something. Think I'll just wait for next Friday and place an order maybe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 15:37:11 GMT -8
Are you guys out of your minds? As a small business owner myself and someone who works closely with small businesses, there is not a consultant on the face of the planet who would advise a small company not to beat the absolute living hell out of the marketing drum. You guys are literally mad at Blaine for doing the things that companies do. He's trying to grow his business and reach out to new people, and you don't do that by being quiet. M.W. I think a lot of the dissatisfaction came from the perception of the announcement. People saw July 1st and thought (as did I) oh cool! New announcement on that date. Then we get a trailer telling us more...which is what the Facebook post really said. I think we've come to expect a norm from Tangent (HERE IT IS!) and Athearn/ScaleTrains (New Product Announcement for delivery next year...or not immediate). Then there is anger and frustration because Blaine has taken a different approach from what we are used to seeing from manufacturers. I'll admit I was a little disappointed that there was no product announcement on July 1. However, after I saw Blaine's response on this thread I now understand why he presented in this fashion. Heck...it got this thread up to 6 pages so far...good press or bad press, you're still thinking about Arrowhead whether you buy the models or not. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 2, 2020 15:53:24 GMT -8
We should all agree to be completely silent when the announcement finally comes. Total radio silence. Crickets. Maybe we'll buy a few cars, maybe not. But nary a post on the 'ol internets! Nah, won't happen. We need the obligatory 8-pages of thread to proclaim to all whether or not the item fits "my" era and to discuss COTS stencil data. Ah yes, the COTS stencil! The Final Word in determining a car's suitability for a given era. The touchstone to the time-space continuum. Gotta have a good COTS stencil. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 2, 2020 16:25:23 GMT -8
The fable of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. If Arrowhead keeps stringing the audience along without delivering there is danger of losing the audience. Just something to keep in mind before crying wolf again with the next announcement. We should all agree to be completely silent when the announcement finally comes. Total radio silence. Crickets. Maybe we'll buy a few cars, maybe not. But nary a post on the 'ol internets! Um, no. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Jul 2, 2020 23:20:23 GMT -8
Well, as a soon to be customer, I can guarantee I'm not giving two thumbs presentation wise. Does my opinion really matter? No. I'm not pledging off his products, but it does fail me on premise alone. It's teasing, literally, and the expectation from the first tease (which is fine) was that July 1st would be big! Well, it wasn't big. It was literally nothing.
Some of you are twisting words of myself, Ryan, Martin, etc, and acting like nobody wants to be told anything until the drop date. That's ridiculous. But if you are going to mention a date, maybe make the date worthy of mention. July 1st was not worthy of mention, and if it was, then the June 23rd FB post certainly wasn't.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 3, 2020 3:29:05 GMT -8
How funny would it be if Tangent announces some spectacular new freight car on Monday July 6 and everyone spends all the money they set aside for the Arrowhead car on the new Tangent car instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 4:02:01 GMT -8
How funny would it be if Tangent announces some spectacular new freight car on Monday July 6 and everyone spends all the money they set aside for the Arrowhead car on the new Tangent car instead. Interesting. It seems (to me) that Tangent name seems to follow Arrowhead around with comparisons; however, the same level of “trolling” doesn’t seem to follow any other high end manufacturers...just an observation. |
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Post by choochooboy on Jul 3, 2020 5:50:04 GMT -8
Well, as a soon to be customer, I can guarantee I'm not giving two thumbs presentation wise. Does my opinion really matter? No. I'm not pledging off his products, but it does fail me on premise alone. It's teasing, literally, and the expectation from the first tease (which is fine) was that July 1st would be big! Well, it wasn't big. It was literally nothing. Some of you are twisting words of myself, Ryan, Martin, etc, and acting like nobody wants to be told anything until the drop date. That's ridiculous. But if you are going to mention a date, maybe make the date worthy of mention. July 1st was not worthy of mention, and if it was, then the June 23rd FB post certainly wasn't. We appreciate your business, and we hope to have some of it in the future. I am going to respond, but not because I am trying to change your opinion. This thread has devolved into an analysis of a Facebook statement where I said "all-new freight car announcement, more details to come, July 1" That's it. That is the crux of the issue. The consensus views has coalesced around the notion that, following a 2 year absence of new product, it is completely out-of-bounds to for a company to say "all-new freight car announcement, more details to come, July 1" on it's own Facebook page. Can you imagine this same conversation happening in any other business environment? Can you imagine holding a company in any other environment to a standard where the dichotomy of communication is "release or say nothing"? I can't. I don't mean to be dismissive of anyone's opinion. But, this general line of reasoning feels absurd. I cannot imagine taking to the forums in anger because Ford drops another bi-line about their upcoming Bronco. Or, A24 Films releases a second trailer to an upcoming movie. Or, feeling so entitled to a business' communication stream that the statement (made somewhere in this thread) "I don't need an announcement of an announcement" actually makes sense. Maybe I am not even trying to talk to the people on this forum directly, right? After all, I didn't even make the statement here. Maybe I am talking to the thousands of people who don't follow Arrowhead on my Facebook account. I mean, ScaleTrains has tens of thousands more followers than I do, for example. Maybe I am letting some of these people know that Arrowhead is re-engaging the market, and maybe that is a good thing for my business. If they have thought about following us but haven't because things have seemed dormant, maybe giving some notice that this is changing is a good thing. Again, the inability of this thread to see that other interests may be at play for saying "all-new freight car announcement, more details to come, July 1" astounds me. I understand that there are people who are frustrated because they interpreted this language as being language that connotes an announcement. I get that, and I can try to be sensitive to that in the future. But, there is ZERO charity for the fact that I did literally what the post said would be done--which was, bring more information to the table about an upcoming announcement. And this is what is interesting to many of the people with whom I having conversations. They are saying that the thread has moved outside the bounds of credibility. And, people are noticing a set of trend-lines in this conversation. With extraordinary consistency, the issues are framed as 'me vs a particular competitor'. This competitor's name is seeded repeatedly--as if there are no other players in this industry. Look, I am not saying that this competitor himself is behind these comments in any way. I genuinely don't believe that this would be true. But, when the trend lines are this engrained, it starts to feel like the fans of this company's products are abandoning reasonable judgment for advocacy. My best, Blaine Hadfield Arrowhead |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jul 3, 2020 6:15:25 GMT -8
"I don't mean to be dismissive of anyone's opinion. But, this general line of reasoning feels absurd beyond belief. I cannot imagine taking to the forums in anger because Ford drops another bi-line about their upcoming Bronco. Or, A24 Films releases a second trailer to an upcoming movie." Dear Mr Hadfield, I believe the above statement is an apple to oranges comparison. In both cases the product has already been announced, and more details of already announced product are being given. I currently do not have any of your products, only for the reason, that so far they don't fit what I model. I came home on July 1 looking forward to what I thought was going to be a new car announcement, that would fit what I model, (As I do think you do beautiful work) I was somewhat surprised to see the more "details" was an announcement of a pending announcement. My first two thoughts were "what the *, and that is going to upset a lot people". If you had said on July 1, were are doing this xxxx car, more details on July 10, you would probably had the same amount of people upset , but for different reasons, and then at least we would know what is coming. |
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Post by choochooboy on Jul 3, 2020 6:28:55 GMT -8
"I don't mean to be dismissive of anyone's opinion. But, this general line of reasoning feels absurd beyond belief. I cannot imagine taking to the forums in anger because Ford drops another bi-line about their upcoming Bronco. Or, A24 Films releases a second trailer to an upcoming movie." Dear Mr Hadfield, I believe the above statement is an apple to oranges comparison. In both cases the product has already been announced, and more details of already announced product are being given. I currently do not have any of your products, only for the reason, that so far they don't fit what I model. I came home on July 1 looking forward to what I thought was going to be a new car announcement, that would fit what I model, (As I do think you do beautiful work) I was somewhat surprised to see the more "details" was an announcement of a pending announcement. My first two thoughts were "what the *, and that is going to upset a lot people". If you had said on July 1, were are doing this xxxx car, more details on July 10, you would probably had the same amount of people upset , but for different reasons, and then at least we would know what is coming. I think that this is perfectly fair feedback, and it is well taken. Again, many thanks, Blaine Hadfield Arrowhead Models |
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Post by mdvle on Jul 3, 2020 6:29:35 GMT -8
Best marketing keeps people talking about the company and its product. Kudos to the box marketing strategy because this guy can’t stop talking about it. I can think of a better marketing strategy: a company announces beautiful models and they are ready to buy right then. I've picked up a few of those beautiful models as soon as I saw the announcement. This countdown to the teaser bait-and-switch business is silly. Just get on with it.
A good way for a new company to go out of business.
To an extent those of us on these forums are not the target of this advertising - we generally are aware of what gets announced/released because the information gets posted.
But, looking at the hobby as a whole, the number of people on forums like this is negligible.
And getting your brand awareness, and your product information, out to the larger market is very difficult.
Even large, well established, companies like Athearn struggle to get people aware of what they are announcing or have made - watch the Live Q&A events and see the requests for stuff that either has already been announced, or recently delivered. Read through Facebook comments for various manufacturer posts and the inevitable comments along the line of "I didn't know you made that" even though the model is on its second or third run.
Or the number of people who simply find the idea of going to the manufacturer website to see what is being offered, or what roadnames are available, too much effort.
Or to be even more specific, when Model Rail (UK magazine) teased shots of an EP of an exclusive model that they were getting tooled on their Facebook page they did it puzzle style, revealing the model bit by random bit - and yet despite at least 12 months of essentially full page ads promoting the model most people were guessing with things that Model Rail wasn't making...
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 3, 2020 6:41:19 GMT -8
How funny would it be if Tangent announces some spectacular new freight car on Monday July 6 and everyone spends all the money they set aside for the Arrowhead car on the new Tangent car instead. Interesting. It seems (to me) that Tangent name seems to follow Arrowhead around with comparisons; however, the same level of “trolling” doesn’t seem to follow any other high end manufacturers...just an observation. Feel free to insert Scale Trains or Moloco or Athearn or ExactRail or Bowser or any number of other manufacturers into the equation instead of Tangent if you choose; I only picked the Tangent name because they keep being mentioned as the company that doesn't keep teasing us with announcement dates ahead of time. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 3, 2020 6:47:00 GMT -8
Well, as a soon to be customer, I can guarantee I'm not giving two thumbs presentation wise. Does my opinion really matter? No. I'm not pledging off his products, but it does fail me on premise alone. It's teasing, literally, and the expectation from the first tease (which is fine) was that July 1st would be big! Well, it wasn't big. It was literally nothing. Some of you are twisting words of myself, Ryan, Martin, etc, and acting like nobody wants to be told anything until the drop date. That's ridiculous. But if you are going to mention a date, maybe make the date worthy of mention. July 1st was not worthy of mention, and if it was, then the June 23rd FB post certainly wasn't. This thread has devolved into an analysis of a Facebook statement where I said "all-new freight car announcement, more details to come, July 1" That's it. That is the crux of the issue. The consensus views has coalesced around the notion that, following a 2 year absence of new product, it is completely out-of-bounds to for a company to say "all-new freight car announcement, more details to come, July 1" on it's own Facebook page. Call me crazy, but when we hear "freight car announcement coming July 1", we just sort of naturally assume it'll be an actual, you know, announcement of the new freight car. Not an announcement of another announcement yet to come. |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 3, 2020 7:34:05 GMT -8
To an extent those of us on these forums are not the target of this advertising - we generally are aware of what gets announced/released because the information gets posted. I'd say more people are interested in high fidelity models here than most other forums I've visited. Most other forums there is a lot of chatter on cheap deals on older lower detail models and how proud they are of them. That's fine of course; there is room in the hobby for all kinds. But I'd say here and TO there are more modelers interested in higher fidelity models. We don't really know - there are a lot of lurkers we don't know about. But here are some numbers for consideration: Total Members: 2,102 Users Online in the Last 24 Hours 127 Members, 1,330 Guests. 1,330 guess is a decent amount of lurkers. It seems now more than ever, with websites, forums, Facebook, social media, advertising is easier and easier and cheaper, not more difficult. Joe Fugate at MRH magazine has noted how advertising methods have evolved now to the point that even his revenue is trailing off and he is an online only publication. Why? It's because companies are finding they can get a lot of advertising via free means such as social media, Facebook and other means. To me that is in contrast to what you are claim. The anecdotal comments mentioned aren't necessarily proof that their advertising isn't effective. It's not going to reach everyone of course. |
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Post by mdvle on Jul 3, 2020 8:28:35 GMT -8
To an extent those of us on these forums are not the target of this advertising - we generally are aware of what gets announced/released because the information gets posted. I'd say more people are interested in high fidelity models here than most other forums I've visited. Most other forums there is a lot of chatter on cheap deals on older lower detail models and how proud they are of them. That's fine of course; there is room in the hobby for all kinds. But I'd say here and TO there are more modelers interested in higher fidelity models. We don't really know - there are a lot of lurkers we don't know about. But here are some numbers for consideration: Total Members: 2,102 Users Online in the Last 24 Hours 127 Members, 1,330 Guests. 1,330 guess is a decent amount of lurkers. It seems now more than ever, with websites, forums, Facebook, social media, advertising is easier and easier and cheaper, not more difficult. Joe Fugate at MRH magazine has noted how advertising methods have evolved now to the point that even his revenue is trailing off and he is an online only publication. Why? It's because companies are finding they can get a lot of advertising via free means such as social media, Facebook and other means. To me that is in contrast to what you are claim. The anecdotal comments mentioned aren't necessarily proof that their advertising isn't effective. It's not going to reach everyone of course.
I think you have somewhat proved my point. 1,330 lurkers, with 127 "active" members, is essentially a rounding error compared to say Model Railroader (from Wikipedia, paid circulation in 2011 - 138,000)
And even Model Railroader is only getting to a small fraction of the people participating in this hobby.
As for social media, yes they can get lots of advertising free (which is exactly what Blaine/Arrowhead is doing yet people are complaining about it), but it is still a drop in the bucket.
Some numbers from YouTube:
ScaleTrains - 4 weeks ago, UP turbine - only 11,000 views (and a quick glance that is at least double what most of their videos are getting)
Athearn - most videos around 3,000 views, the Athearn Tuesday videos under 1,000 views (but shared with Facebook so not accurate).
Rapido - doing much better than others, closer to 10,000 views for many and several well above 10,000 (perhaps helped by their newsletters?).
So none of those "free" YouTube videos are doing exceptionally well.
Facebook I have no idea about.
But in general, as we as a hobby split from primarily 2 magazines (30+ years ago) to a multitude of different online and social media hideouts it gets more difficult to reach all of your potential customer base - and so doing things that encourage people not only to be aware of what you are doing but to share with friends by word of mouth becomes more important, particularly for those say just starting a company and only getting to their 2nd release.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 3, 2020 8:35:51 GMT -8
Thought I'd ask:
What were the "details" that were announced on July 1? I'm not that interested in viewing a Facebook presentation. I'd just like to know what they are/were.
For some reason, they are not listed on the Arrowhead website.
Ed
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Post by choochooboy on Jul 3, 2020 8:52:07 GMT -8
Thought I'd ask: What were the "details" that were announced on July 1? I'm not that interested in viewing a Facebook presentation. I'd just like to know what they are/were. For some reason, they are not listed on the Arrowhead website. Ed All of that information was contained in the most recent video, which you can find on the videos tab of the website. At present, it isn't other places on the website. But, in short, the video disclosed new information about the following: 1. The model is innovative--which I don't mean as some kind of marketing hyperbole. It is literally innovative in the sense that there are things about this model that have never been done before. 2. The model serves the 1980s era to the present. 3. We are having a public event to unveil the model, and this event is at Lombard Hobby. We feel like this is a step worth celebrating in the absence of other events. (Social distancing norms will be practices, and Lombard will adhere to the recommended practices outline by the state of Illinois.) 4. Finally, the announcement will be made on July 10th. My best, Blaine Hadfield Arrowhead Models |
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