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Post by slowfreight on Nov 2, 2020 17:56:46 GMT -8
Interesting to see the removed ladder rung holes. Was the car built with high ladders? Those holes are on the laser cut parts. Yes, high with roof walk. From this roof angle photo that walk was removed very neatly. I haven't found a good B end shot. The partial I have shows high brake wheel and full ladders at the B end and cut down on the other. Along with the usual yellow no roofwalk warning signs. Those signs aren't on the car in that photo but are on others. I've noticed that these cars have lots of variations in the various warnings and labels that were applied after the cars were built. Found good B end shot...look for NP 5529 on railcarphotos.com. Not reposting as it's not my photo. I can also tell on 5304 from rrpicturearchives.net that it also retained a high handbrake. Interesting, though, that there's no roof saddles for a roofwalk. Edit If Tim did 5613, and you're picking 5650, I must choose a different one. 5422 and 5506 both had an interesting repair where the plug door and track were freshly painted green on weathered cars. 5529 just has a nice, even fade to it which would be simpler. 5520 has a brown restencil, and looks like its doors were shopped and touched up on PCRR. I may go with 5520 because as much as I like 5422 it rides on the 3-spring 70t trucks, not the 2-spring version like I have from Tangent--and I already went through that on my first one, figuring out half way through that I didn't need the Tangent trucks I bought. So I get dibs on this car: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2804116 |
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Post by Christian on Nov 3, 2020 9:21:50 GMT -8
Found good B end shot...look for NP 5529 I can also tell on 5304 from rrpicturearchives.net that it also retained a high handbrake. I didn't need the Tangent trucks I bought. So I get dibs on this car: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2804116 Darn you and your end photo. Yes, it answered my questions about grabs on the ends.  BUT I bought Tangent 70 ton Barber trucks for this project. That darned end photo showed ASF Ride Control trucks. And it showed Equipco brake gear. And riveted draft gear. A quick tour of my truck box came up with a lot of Tangent trucks. I added one more to the box. Then I spent nearly two hours hunting down ExactRail 70 ton Ride Control trucks. No joy. One eBay auction and I don't do auctions or lotteries or horses. I applied Googlefoo many times. And then, and then, and then, ---. Nope, not Ray Stephens. MOLOCO! All three problems solved all for about the same cost as the Cannon car kit. You realize that 5520 is Dave Hussey's car? I like splotches and those repainted doors almost got me. But Tim convinced me on the Japanese Navy Deep Dark Green and I do want to see some of it even though I realize that I've got twenty years of grime over that paint. 5579 was my runner up but the photo I have is too early. But that might not stop me from changing my mind. By the way - those Tangent trucks you bought just like me - nope. Wrong trucks. You also need Ride Control. Look at the bulge under the springs. |
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Post by simulatortrain on Nov 3, 2020 10:33:43 GMT -8
5650 would be a good home for those new National trucks from Moloco.
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Post by slowfreight on Nov 3, 2020 10:52:27 GMT -8
I won't complain too loudly about the wrong trucks. Dave Hussey and Dave Lelbach both helped out when I bought the kit and trucks at STL RPM. But in a pinch, I used Walthers 100t sideframes and 33" wheels on my earlier car to get the 3-spring look and I doubt it will ever bother me enough to change it. Ironically, the week before I could have ordered the right trucks on a Moloco shopping spree and simply hadn't noticed the error yet.
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Post by Christian on Nov 3, 2020 12:05:05 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit
Scrape, Scrape, Scrape
Today’s adventures in boxcar construction were and are really boring. It is cleaning the parts. The instructions are really clear. The laser melts through the plastic and leaves a burr. The sheets are covered with a thin adhesive paper on the good side to minimize that burr. But it’s still there. Photograph one isn’t great but it does show the burr. This is a backing part and that’s where I started cleaning. I’m going simple to intricate so that I learn as I go. Photo two. On these early sheets I’m sanding the burr flat. The greenish pads are stiff foam with abrasive on both sides. These are Vallejo but there are many, many brands of this sort of pad pushed for model builders. I use all four of the grits shown in the photo. Photograph three shows the sole dressing brush that I use to clean the sanding pads. A toothbrush is just fine. Does anyone remember shining shoes? Photo four shows the first of the pieces with the paper backing. Before removing the paper I did my sanding on the backside. Photograph five show how NOT to remove the tape. In my working career, I put down and pulled up many miles of tape. I did learn a thing or two. Pulling up like in the photograph also pulls up the paint below. In this case, there isn’t paint, but pulling like in the photo stresses the styrene. Photo six shows the correct way to pull up the tape. Pull it back on itself and go slow. No reason to rip. Especially since the more fragile parts are yet to come. Photo seven shows the first layer of the sidewall all cleaned, sanded, and scraped. The part was cut away from the fret with a single edge blade. On this piece, there is etched a placement map for the next layer. Which I’ll tackle tomorrow. Too much going on today. Finally, some art for your consumption while removing the paper from a Cannon & Company boxcar. Gustave Caillebotte, The Floor Scrapers.
       
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Post by Christian on Nov 5, 2020 9:01:33 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit
A Day To Not Build Models
Yesterday, Wednesday, I thought a bit of time at the workbench would be a good stress reliever. I usually hunker down and forget the world. It didn’t work. I sorta screwed up my work. Nothing that isn’t easily fixed, but I should have just waited for another day. So I put things down and went and replaced our home WiFi network! Oh yeah, that relieved a lot of stress! Nothing like family members looking on with disgust as they waited for internet access. (In fairness to me, they lost no more than a half hour of WiFi time and had complete internet access on their cellphones.) Photograph one shows me peeling the layer that will be the top/outer. Little skinny posts. At the time I took this photo things were going fine. Photo two is a bit later. The arrows point to the damage I did to the plug door. The furthest left arrow points to a twist that was in both side parts as they came out of the box. Those I’d planned for as you’ll note in my unboxing post. The plug door stuff is really tiny. Because there are also etched lines at the joints of the parts my peeling pulled them apart. Photograph three is the side after I did some MEK repair work. When I get to laminating the side layers I should be able to get these door parts under control. Never the less I did root through my boxcar door bin and found doors of the right width and with the correct locking machinery. But with the wrong styles and rails. Plus I’d have to remove the locking rods. I know where those doors are just in case. No decisions needed now and I will first attempt to fix the kit parts. Photo four: I decided that these delicate sides need to be protected from me while work continues. I cut folders from dry deli wax paper to keep all the pieces of one side layer in one place, just in case. Photograph five is heavy. About 3.5 pounds. (Or 1587.57g) Reading all the comments about building these boxcars as well as Hussey’s instructions about placing a weight on the sides while the laminations set, I figured that weighting the sides from the get go wouldn’t hurt. The bar is a weight that I rescued many years ago. It had something to do with boiler controls. Before: 84.6 Mbps down, 65.5 Mbps up After: 635.4 Mbps down, 499.8 Mbps up     
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 5, 2020 9:21:52 GMT -8
Yikes, this kit is really involved! But I know you'll keep us entertained while you keep at it and hide away from the scary world outside.
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Post by edgecrusher on Nov 5, 2020 13:59:44 GMT -8
So far it seems like the worst part of these kits is getting the protective paper off the parts. Is there there maybe some kind of chemical or de-greaser you could soak the parts in to minimize the damage? I'm thinking like a shallow pan of goo gone. Obviously something plastic safe.
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Post by cannon on Nov 5, 2020 15:16:57 GMT -8
So far it seems like the worst part of these kits is getting the protective paper off the parts. Is there there maybe some kind of chemical or de-greaser you could soak the parts in to minimize the damage? I'm thinking like a shallow pan of goo gone. Obviously something plastic safe. The tape is low tac and comes off easily without leaving any residue. The big trick is the removal of the lip created by the laser burn. It is slight on the “front” protected side and a little more pronounced on the bottom side. Scraping with a single edge razor blade or sanding with some sort of sanding sick or pad works. Work slowly on things like the ribs supporting at the top with a finger and scrape in one direction towards the bottom. Being careful not to work towards you or things can buckle. I’ve built over 50 cars myself, so to me it seems easy but I’ll admit to screwing up a part or two. I want you to be happy with the car and the build experience. If you have a problem, contact me. Dave Hussey Cannon and Company |
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Post by Christian on Nov 5, 2020 15:59:27 GMT -8
So far it seems like the worst part of these kits is getting the protective paper off the parts. Is there there maybe some kind of chemical or de-greaser you could soak the parts in to minimize the damage? I'm thinking like a shallow pan of goo gone. Obviously something plastic safe. Let me repeat what David Hussey posted. The tape is very thin and the adhesive very light. A little tighter than a Post It. Sorta like Japanese masking tape. The problem I had was not giving the project my complete attention. I realized that and stopped working on the side after repairing the breaks. When I start again I have to deburr the front which would not have been a happy exercise today. I'd guess doing a neat job deburring the back, pulling off the paper, and deburring the front would take about ten minutes per side. I'm anticipating that the "worst" part of the job on this boxcar will be chamfering the upper edge of the waffles. I've looked at too many pictures and know I can't avoid doing that step. |
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 5, 2020 17:21:40 GMT -8
I think you make an excellent point about mindset, Christian. I've encountered the same thing several times throughout my life and the best response is always to put the models away for the day. It can be difficult to see when it's happening but over time I've learned to recognize when it's time to take a break. I've ruined a few models by trying to power through the difficulties, especially when I was younger. Much better to get a little perspective and save the model for a better day.
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Post by cannon on Nov 5, 2020 21:04:38 GMT -8
[quote source="/post/146092/thread" I'd guess doing a neat job deburring the back, pulling off the paper, and deburring the front would take about ten minutes per side. I'm anticipating that the "worst" part of the job on this boxcar will be chamfering the upper edge of the waffles. I've looked at too many pictures and know I can't avoid doing that step. To bevel the top side I just used a knife blade and lightly beveled they edge. Should be relatively easy since that part is only .010 thick, so just a few strokes. Dave |
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Post by Christian on Nov 6, 2020 4:48:26 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit
More Scrape and SandI did a bit last night after reading comments on this thread. And I remembered my model building roots. Namely, glue first, trim later. Although I am a great believer in following directions, this wasn’t quite working for me. Age, temperament, hand shake and so forth. I did not want to mangle another side. So I worked on the second piece of the top lamination. Scraped and sanded the back side. On the face I removed the paper where it was easy, but left the paper on the plug door. My intention is to do the lamination and then remove the final bits of paper and scrape/sand off the burr. Then I moved on to the first lamination – the waffles. At this writing I have not finished prep work because I have to do the chamfer on the top edge of the waffles. I think at this writing that using the knife point scrape recommended by Hussey would mean I have to do this before doing the lamination. More on that later. Photograph shows scraping the back side of the waffles with a single edged razor blade. The photo is staged because I am right handed and operating the camera left handed doesn’t work for me. You can see the ridges under my thumb. They were much more prominent on this layer than on the top layer I previously illustrated. Photo two shows sanding after scraping off the worst of the ridge/burr. So long as the block doesn’t go off the edge I can orbit the sanding block without tearing into the part. Photograph three is the good side with the paper still in place. Hussey’s instructions suggest using a sprue nipper to scrape off the bubbles that are on the razor cuts. This worked fine. Photo four is an extreme closeup of the working area showing how rough these edges are. I worked over the side with the nippers and smoothed it out quite a lot. When I do the chamfer/bevel on the waffles I’ll do a bit more on smoothing these sides. I’ve looked at a lot of photos of boxcars made with these laminations and the roughness is visible only if you are looking for it. Photograph five is the side as it was put in it’s wax paper folder last night. Most of the paper is in place and the edges still have some roughness. Most of the roughness you see in this photo is just sanding fuzz. Next up. Today, Friday, I’ll do the other waffle side and then tackle the bevels/chamfers. Or not!     
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 6, 2020 6:53:42 GMT -8
The de-burring process for the car sides just takes some time, having just gone thru it with the SP B70-30 I can certainly relate, I didn't have any misfortunes as you did Christian but I find my self taking breaks from it and only making limited progress. Doing something else for awhile seems to bring me back around - In my case I turn up some loud music like AC DC and play the bass along with it- Presto!
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Post by Christian on Nov 8, 2020 2:17:23 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit
Scrape, Scrape, Scrape, Scrape
Repeat 120 times. See you in a couple of days.  
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Post by Christian on Nov 8, 2020 2:34:47 GMT -8
The de-burring process for the car sides just takes some time, having just gone thru it with the SP B70-30 I can certainly relate, I didn't have any misfortunes as you did Christian but I find my self taking breaks from it and only making limited progress. Doing something else for awhile seems to bring me back around - In my case I turn up some loud music like AC DC and play the bass along with it- Presto! That's exactly what I'm doing. Afterall, this isn't a race. I'm only competing with myself. My music is quite different. Of course. I'm a different person. That's why music is so great. I put down my 35 pound, brass, unplugged bass 52 years ago. Though it might be fun to play along with twenty øne piløts. Nah! |
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Post by champagnetrail on Nov 8, 2020 17:00:03 GMT -8
[quote source="/post/146092/thread" I'd guess doing a neat job deburring the back, pulling off the paper, and deburring the front would take about ten minutes per side. I'm anticipating that the "worst" part of the job on this boxcar will be chamfering the upper edge of the waffles. I've looked at too many pictures and know I can't avoid doing that step. To bevel the top side I just used a knife blade and lightly beveled they edge. Should be relatively easy since that part is only .010 thick, so just a few strokes. Dave Dave...
Your kits look super cool, but I have to admit to being super-intimidated. How does one put together the sides without warping something? Is there a particular technique I should practice before attempting to build a boxcar like this?
-pat
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Post by slowfreight on Nov 8, 2020 17:45:35 GMT -8
To bevel the top side I just used a knife blade and lightly beveled they edge. Should be relatively easy since that part is only .010 thick, so just a few strokes. Dave Dave... Your kits look super cool, but I have to admit to being super-intimidated. How does one put together the sides without warping something? Is there a particular technique I should practice before attempting to build a boxcar like this? -pat
Trust me, I felt the same. I ruined one complete side, but Dave bailed me out. The thing to remember is that once you've got the sides assembled, that really is the toughest part and you can get the four walls together with less headache. And if you mess up a wall like I did, that's your learning piece and it gets better from there. If you have to push your skills, better on the first few steps than the last. |
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Post by timvanmersbergen on Nov 9, 2020 6:55:28 GMT -8
To bevel the top side I just used a knife blade and lightly beveled they edge. Should be relatively easy since that part is only .010 thick, so just a few strokes. Dave Dave...
Your kits look super cool, but I have to admit to being super-intimidated. How does one put together the sides without warping something? Is there a particular technique I should practice before attempting to build a boxcar like this?
-pat
Not Dave, but for me the key is a good flat weight on a glass sheet while the styrene cement sets up. Be patient and leave it like that for at least 24 hours. After that, I add some styrene structural shapes to the back that will be inside the car. That gives it additional rigidity.
Tim VanMersbergen
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Post by Christian on Nov 9, 2020 8:03:15 GMT -8
Your kits look super cool, but I have to admit to being super-intimidated. How does one put together the sides without warping something? Is there a particular technique I should practice before attempting to build a boxcar like this Not Dave, but stay tuned.  The instructions and input from everyone who has built one of the Cannon and Co kits stress the need to keep the sides under weights until you can add stiffness on the back. See Tim's comment above. I recall comments from folks who did not keep things under weights stating that they should have followed instructions. I'm fortunate in that I have boxcar side size weights. But they are simply a luxury. A scrap of wood and a can of chili would be enough. I've been keeping the sides under weight since I started working on them because I can. They are much flatter than they came out of the box. Take a look at this week's Sunday Foto Fun. Tbird1958 (Mark Hills) leads off with one of his Cannon builds. If I didn't have a thing for waffle sides I would have chosen one of the Precision Design cars. They are really something different from what's out there in other kits and RTR. |
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Post by Christian on Nov 9, 2020 8:27:01 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit Today’s Progress. CRICKETS |
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 9, 2020 10:08:12 GMT -8
To bevel the top side I just used a knife blade and lightly beveled they edge. Should be relatively easy since that part is only .010 thick, so just a few strokes. Dave Dave...
Your kits look super cool, but I have to admit to being super-intimidated. How does one put together the sides without warping something? Is there a particular technique I should practice before attempting to build a boxcar like this?
-pat
I admit to being a bit intimidated when I open my first kit (GN 6'+8' door car)thinking I'd screw it up but if you follow Dave's instructions you'll be fine. I worked on a cutting mat and taped up a couple of pieces of K&S brass stock to keep things squared up, it was very helpful. I used a Norton whetstone to hold the car sides down overnight as the glue set up. GN car sides  A bit further along.  |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 9, 2020 10:48:04 GMT -8
What I am trying to imagine is how do you keep all of those rib parts nice a true and parallel when gluing them to the sides?
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 9, 2020 10:59:12 GMT -8
What I am trying to imagine is how do you keep all of those rib parts nice a true and parallel when gluing them to the sides? A piece of square brass tube is helpful, honestly the kits *look* intimidating at first, but once you go at it and get the hang of the work, it's easy. Enjoying modeling in general is a good prerequisite though |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 9, 2020 11:17:17 GMT -8
It does look intimidating. At some point I may "choose the danger" and try to get my feet with with more modeling and try to develop some of those "chops" as they say in the musician world.
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Post by cannon on Nov 9, 2020 17:04:26 GMT -8
It does look intimidating. At some point I may "choose the danger" and try to get my feet with with more modeling and try to develop some of those "chops" as they say in the musician world. Among the thirty plus cars I offer, that for the most part are not available by other means. They fall into several categories: Welded Side/Riveted a basic box some with doors from other sources. Such as 5001, 5002, 5003, 5030, 5033, 5034 etc Outside Post cars such as 5005, 5006 like Marks GN car. Some with laser doors, some with laser and cast doors. 5013, 5020 Precision Design cars with the indented sides (made with a .005 overlay) and various doors laser and cast. 5038, 5041 Outside post with Waffles. The 5015 Christian is doing with integral waffles, and 5039 with separate Waffles 40 ft Phosphate cars, 5035, 5036, 5040 and the SP plate C 40’ 5023. They require shortening the roof The outside post cars are the ones that are more susceptible to warping as the glue drys that weighting down is recommended. The welded cars less so Jim, the DRGW 5042 might be an easy start since it can be modeled two ways (simple welded), and Precision Design that is a little trickier. Dave Hussey |
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Post by wp8thsub on Nov 9, 2020 17:07:36 GMT -8
What I am trying to imagine is how do you keep all of those rib parts nice a true and parallel when gluing them to the sides? One helpful item is a homemade spacing jig. Cut something to the appropriate size using brass, cardstock, styrene, or whatever. Check your work often. |
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Post by Christian on Nov 10, 2020 5:11:54 GMT -8
Cannon & Company Northern Pacific Boxcar Kit
Intermission
A little bit of house keeping. Yes, scraping is coming along just fine. Next Post will have more. -Jim Fitch asked: What I am trying to imagine is how do you keep all of those rib parts nice a true and parallel when gluing them to the sides? Photograph one shows the first layer of the side as it came from the Cannon & Co. package. The location of the next layer is etched. Photo two shows the cleaned first layer with the second layer positioned above. Photograph three shows the two layers resting together. Photo four is a chunk of a Steve Vincent photograph. You can see that the etched lines represent the flanges of the ribs. (Doesn’t the real world call these “stakes?) Note that the bottom of the ribs is not mitered consistently. I think that this boxcar will be fairly easy to align. It appears that Tbird1958’s boxcar has the same sort of etchings. (By the way, Dad had one; 1958 Tbird. Kinda off white. 12 year old me was impressed by Dad who apparently wasn’t as stuffy as I thought.) In other matters. As I neared the end of my Foobie Hopper I dropped my magnifying visor about twenty inches onto a hard surface. The head band disintegrated. Old age. I bought the visor in high-school and it needed replacing years ago. The lens was scratched and foggy and the band adjuster didn’t work any more. But, it was an old friend. The magnification wasn’t strong but good enough for lots and lots of model building. The visor I had is still being made. And the Donegan OptiVisor is certainly popular in hobby shops. Heck, I would have bought one in high school, but it would have meant mowing a lot more lawns. Photograph five: Out with the old. Photo six: In with the new. After some shopping and thinking I purchased the magnifier shown in the photo. Under $20. As with many Chinese tools you can get the same thing in several brands and prices. I won’t give you a through sales pitch. I did that on another list and three of the guys bought one and did some modifications. Mine is vanilla. Mostly. I did put a scrap of theatrical gel onto the LED to corrected the color temperature to match my main lighting. Other folks removed the nose piece and/or used moleskin. The magnifier comes with both a head strap which I prefer and also temples, like eye glasses. Some of the guys preferred that. Next up, Scraping: A New Beginning.     
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Post by cannon on Nov 10, 2020 9:12:48 GMT -8
To clarify a comment Christian made, for this kit only (5015) do I laser scribe the “flange” of the ribs. The original Modelers Choice kits did that, but I felt it did not represent the flange well enough. So for all the other outside post cars the side is composed of the “outside side” then with a .005 “hat” layer that is comprised of the top cord with full a with flange. The rib is a .020 thick piece that is also attached to the top cord. These ribs then center on the hat, forming the stamped rib.
To achieve the waffle thickness for the 5015 NP car I chose two fibs of .010 thickness, and omitted the .005 hat.
The SCL/CSX/L&N waffle car 5039 where the waffles are loose I have locating scribe marks.
Dave Hussey
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 10, 2020 10:13:59 GMT -8
Well done on the new visor. I bought my first one, 2 years ago and it is a critical tool that gets used every time I work on models. I can see you really got your money's worth out of yours, well done!
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