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Post by fishbelly on May 18, 2021 18:41:13 GMT -8
Here is my newest adventure. Atlas FP7. Motor runs great. Tested it on a 9V battery. very quiet and spins up nicely. First test. Install a brand new Loksound V5 micro select. Hook it up properly. I know it is. I download a new file from the ESU page for an F7. I change the horn type and upload the file to the decoder. Sounds great. Really like it. Go to operate it and for a split second the motor turns and then shuts off. No more spinning. Now I can push it a little and the motor will sputter, but will not move on its own. I tried this today also with a V4 and it does the same thing. The decoder will not operate the motor. Second test. I remove the Loksound decoder and install an TCS T1 non-sound decoder that I have had for a million years sitting in a drawer. Give it an address and then apply power. It spins right up and move along very nicely. Very smooth motor response and very quiet. I have tried three loksound V4 decoders and one Loksound V5 decoder and all act the same. They will not power the motor. I am at a loss as to what the problem is or what to do. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I really want sound and I want Loksound, but Loksound seems to not be the great decoder I was so used to installing and maybe I should try another brand.  |
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Post by Christian on May 19, 2021 0:45:15 GMT -8
If your FP7 is one of the Roco models the amperage draw is too high for most, not all, modern decoders. If your FP7 is newer, forget me!
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Post by fishbelly on May 19, 2021 2:44:39 GMT -8
It is the Roco model.
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Post by Christian on May 19, 2021 6:47:46 GMT -8
Max amps on that decoder is 0.70 amp. Early Atlas/Roco models typically had a 1.5 amp stall draw. Your TCS T1 is a 2 amp decoder. |
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Post by fishbelly on May 19, 2021 7:06:54 GMT -8
Christian, thank you VERY much for this info. I did nto know this.
So I am looking at the TCS WOW Sound decoders and their spec say Continuous peak is 1.3/2.0 amps. I suppose these would work then?
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Post by canrailfan on May 19, 2021 8:26:23 GMT -8
Here is my newest adventure. ... Install a brand new Loksound V5 micro select. The Loksound V5 and Loksound Select are two different decoders. Which one do you have? The full-size V5 (58420) has a maximum motor current of 1.5A. The older Select is rated at 1.1A but is no longer available new. Are all the V4 and V5 decoders you mention the micro versions? Loksound decoders all have over-current and over-temperature protection so what you are seeing is the decoder protecting itself! A Loksound V5 would be a suitable choice. I have two of these older Atlas FP7s. Cleaning out and lightly re-greasing the gears along with a drop of oil at each end of the motor cut the current draw by 30%. Hope this helps. |
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Post by fishbelly on May 19, 2021 9:32:59 GMT -8
Thank you David.
I can never get the names of these things straight.
I used the Loksound 5 DCC Direct. And the v4's are the Loksound Select Direct.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 19, 2021 11:32:03 GMT -8
This discussion has got me thinking that it might be a good idea, before installing a decoder, to run the loco on straight DC through an ampmeter.
Easy to say....
I haven't bothered to do it yet. Have the ampmeter, though.
Ed
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Post by canrailfan on May 19, 2021 12:17:41 GMT -8
Thank you David. I can never get the names of these things straight. I used the Loksound 5 DCC Direct. And the v4's are the Loksound Select Direct. Okay, that helps clarify the situation. The V5 Direct DCC and the Select Direct are actually V5 Micro and V4 Micro decoders respectively, attached to a drop-in motherboard. The maximum current limit is 0.75A, as specified for the Micro versions of the decoders. The motherboards are actually the same. You can swap the V5 and V4 Micro decoders if desired. For your FP7 the Loksound V5 DCC decoder (58420) would give you 1.5A; this should be sufficient for the old Atlas Roco motor. Because they are self-protecting all the decoders you have tried should still be good for installs in newer models needing less motor current.
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Post by fishbelly on May 19, 2021 12:38:05 GMT -8
David,
I cannot thank you enough for your help. I ordered the 21 pin version to plug right into a decoder buddy. Which will mount onto a special bracket I made for these FP7's.
Very happy I can stay with ESU.
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Post by fishbelly on May 19, 2021 17:31:52 GMT -8
So I did another test tonight. I had an old Loksound V4.0 decoder. I looked up its amp rating and it says 1.1. According to the ESU page, it says that it should be more than enough for the ROCO motor.
Prior to installing the decoder, I took the trucks completely apart and cleaned them from all grease and oils. All the gears and worm gears. Then I reassembled it all. Prior to putting the gears back in, I painted each gear with grease. Same for the axle they go on. I painted the worm gear with grease as well as the worm gear shaft where the bushings ride. I also painted a small amount of grease in the drive shaft cup. I lightly oiled the motor shaft and bushings where it exits the motor frame. I lightly greased the bolster pad. EVERYTHING that moves or is a bearing surface was lubed. Not crazy though.
My first test was to just run the motor on a 9V battery. It was so smooth and quiet that I literally could not hear it running. I have NEVER had a model locomotive run that quiet before.
Second test was to install the Loksound V4.0 decoder and see if it would operate the model. I first downloaded the appropriate sound file for an F7. Made all the necessary changes to the sound choices and uploaded it to the decoder. All went well. I started the motor up and the sounds were great. Then came time to see if it would move. NOPE! I guess this motor draws more than 1.1 amps. I am seriously hoping the V5 with the 1.5 amp rating will work. I just bought three of them and it would suck to pay that much for them and they not work either.
I also have a TCS WOW Sound decoder on order. I would really like to use a Loksound decoder because I have a Lokprogrammer that makes programming these things easy. Time will tell. I hope to receive the V5's either at the end of this week or early next week.
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Post by Christian on May 20, 2021 0:31:55 GMT -8
It was so smooth and quiet that I literally could not hear it running. I have NEVER had a model locomotive run that quiet before. I should have been blunter in my previous posts. I forget that BB is a master of models, but fairly new to this whole running trains thing. Rather than throw a bunch of hundred-dollar decoders at the problem, you should replace the motor with a contemporary motor and be done with the problem. Kato, Genesis, Mashima, and others. You will have to do some drive train tinkering. A-Line, NWSL, and others have those parts. As for the tuning - you need to do that on every locomotive before putting in a decoder. Without getting too technical - in the same manner that noise-canceling headphones use conflicting sound waves to cancel unwanted sounds, a noisy mechanism cancels out some good sound decoder output and results in an aural mess. |
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Post by bnsf971 on May 20, 2021 3:21:56 GMT -8
This discussion has got me thinking that it might be a good idea, before installing a decoder, to run the loco on straight DC through an ampmeter. Easy to say.... I haven't bothered to do it yet. Have the ampmeter, though. Ed That is what every decoder manufacturer recommends. |
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Post by fishbelly on May 20, 2021 4:00:44 GMT -8
Yep, I am a novice with running trains, but thanks to you helpful folks, I am learning a lot. It is most enjoyable too.
The meter I have does not measure amps so I bought a new one today and should receive it soon. I also just watched a good video on how to measure amps. It is not model train motors, but it s a good tutorial.
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