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Post by NYSW3614 on Jun 12, 2021 4:54:15 GMT -8
Greetings! I’m thinking of putting together a special train of Pullmans for a special event like a Shriners or Boy Scouts special. Would special trains as these in 1957 have been made up more of heavy or lightweights or both? Am I correct in thinking heavy as light cars would have been more for regular trains at this time? Thank you!
Joshua
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Post by riogrande on Jun 12, 2021 5:30:57 GMT -8
Good question. DRGW ran similar specials which were photographed in the 50s and 60s. They were often made up with a mix of passenger cars which may have included heavyweights. I'll have to go back and review my books to see what was used as it's been a while since I looked at them. They did run boy scout specials for example.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 12, 2021 6:38:24 GMT -8
The Boy Scout National Jamboree in 1957 was in Valley Forge, PA. Here's a shot of one of the trains:  It's tough to make out much about the cars. Although some of the cars have a rounded roof like a lightweight, they also have belt rails, which lightweights didn't have. Note the steam plume above the GG-1. In July! Here's a shot taken at the Valley Forge station:  Definitely heavyweights, with one obviously being a coach. One thing to consider is that sleepers would only be used for longer distances. For short runs, it'd be coaches. For the sleeper runs, they'd start in a big city and proceed to the location. To run as a single train, you have to have enough cars to do so, otherwise the cars would be run in the consist of a regular train, usually not a railroad's "best". Anyway, in 1957, both railroads and Pullman owned sleepers. Most of the lightweights would be railroad owned, and in assigned service. Thus they would not be available. Pullman did have cars available--heavyweight. For a BSA event, I can envisage 14 section and 12-1 cars (both done by Branchline/Atlas). An exception to my "rule" comes to mind in that I've seen pictures of West coast lightweight trains with some East coast sleepers. These, I think, became available because they were used more in the winter than the summer (think Florida-New York travel). You can bet big money that these lightweight cars cost more to rent than the old Pullman cars, so they were much more likely used by tour groups, made up of people a bit richer than your typical BSA family. The key to setting up this kind of consist is that you can only use what is available. Ed |
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Post by mdvle on Jun 12, 2021 7:30:45 GMT -8
From the passconsist groups.io mailing list, posted March 1st. Not exactly what you are looking for in that no Pullmans.
And too far in the past for your liking, but Shorpy did this LOC photo from 1923 showing a convention in Washington using passenger equipment in a freight yard as a dormitory - including temporary "set track"
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Post by Christian on Jun 12, 2021 7:32:38 GMT -8
It's tough to make out much about the cars. Although some of the cars have a rounded roof like a lightweight, they also have belt rails, which lightweights didn't have. Note the steam plume above the GG-1. In July! Commuter cars with steam ejector air conditioning |
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Post by Christian on Jun 12, 2021 8:00:23 GMT -8
Greetings! I’m thinking of putting together a special train of Pullmans for a special event like a Shriners or Boy Scouts special A special train of that sort would likely use coaches only. By that time Pullman only provided hotel services to railroad-owned sleepers. That was an expensive way to travel. The scout special was likely to be a mix of whatever coaches were not assigned to revenue trains. The mix could easily include commuter cars. In 1957 passenger cars did not, as a rule, operate offline nor did passenger cars run through without crew and equipment changes. If your trip covers more than one railroad's territory then both railroads would contribute coaches proportionate to mileage. Locomotives would change at the interchange even if it was only ten miles from the departing depot! NOTE: I said "as a rule." I'm well aware of sleeper arrangements for transcontinental services. That was a pricey way to travel. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 12, 2021 10:03:51 GMT -8
Greetings! I’m thinking of putting together a special train of Pullmans for a special event like a Shriners or Boy Scouts special A special train of that sort would likely use coaches only. For short distances, yes. For long distances, sleepers. No. Pulllman still owned, both directly and leased from owning railroads, sleepers it could rent out. A steadily decreasing number, to be sure; but enough to supply anyone who was in the mood to give Pullman money. The special trains had to use what was available, and assigned cars were not available. Railroads had pools of unassigned cars, the size of which was up to the railroad. For sleepers, those tended to be lightweights, and undoubtedly cost more to rent than an old clunker from Pullman that had been paid off decades earlier. In 1950, Pullman owned approximately 300 non-air conditioned tourist sleepers (13 section) in the 1000 and 2000 group and 225 in the air conditioned tourist sleeper (16 section) 4000 group. And much much more. I doubt they scrapped ALL of them before 1957. For a single move, which is what we are talking about, there is an individual negotiated contract. Yes, if a train travels over the RF&P and the C&O, it's POSSIBLE that each railroad would supply a certain number of coaches. On the other hand, perhaps one railroad thought it too much trouble or didn't have any available. If all parties to the contract agreed, C&O could supply all the coaches. Note also that private cars could be included in the train. While the railroads might well have a standard rate they would charge, it is not required, and could be negotiated. The power and the crew would indeed change when the railroad changed. That train I mentioned would have RF&P power and crew on RF&P, and C&O power and crew on C&O. And that was generally how it was done on all railroads, anyway. GN power and crew did not operate the Portland section of the Empire Builder. The SP&S did. However, on rare occasions the power and perhaps the crew did NOT change--for example, with a wreck run-around (as happened when the North Coast Limited traveled over the SP&S to bypass a problem on the NP main). When that happens, a pilot will be assigned to the locomotive, at least. |
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