Rapido News 144 - Big Order Deadline October 15th

[jonklein611]

HO Scale E8 A and B Locomotives - Order Deadline Postponed

• Everything You Need To Know

Message From Jason

• The Behind the Scenes Of Sample Models
• F40PH Truck Update

New Announcements - Available Now!

• NEW! HO Scale VIA Tempo Snack Coaches

November Order Deadline - November 15th

• HO Scale Canadian Pacific D10 Steam Locomotive
• HO Scale Procor 5820 Covered Hopper Car

October Order Deadline - October 15th

• HO Scale AutoFlood III Rapid Discharge Hopper
• HO Scale 52' 6" Mill Gondola
• N Scale PC&F B-100-40 Boxcar

Second Section

• We're Hiring - Come Join Our Team!
• Customer Service/Warehouse Assistant
• Facebook Live - October 7th @7pm EST
• New Arrivals
• Factory Updates
• Happy Thanksgiving To Our Canadian Friends

I'll put the words / images down here to simplify the layout:

HO Scale E8 A and B Locomotive - Order Deadline Postponed:

Well, the title says it all. We regret having to bring you the bad news that the HO Scale E8 A and B Locomotives' order deadline has been postponed. We discovered that there were some changes made to the design, specifically the trucks and gearboxes that we had never approved. How did we discover this? You told us!

Our projects go through extensive team and expert review, but sometimes things get missed. In this case, the factory made a design change to the truck sideframes AFTER we had approved the design.

Having approved the design of these components, we were not notified of the change and didn’t go back and check them again.

So the weird truck design made it through tooling and through sample testing without us noticing the issue. Once we showed you the samples, you guys pointed them out. So we are fixing that right now. See Jason's essay below on the pros and cons of showing pre-production samples.

While the trucks (and some other minor issues) are being corrected, we are keeping the order desk open. Here's the caveat: We will not give the usual extended deadline once the changes are made. We will update our Facebook page and send a quick newsletter and then close the order desk within a few days.

Message From Jason:
The Behind The Scenes Of Sample Models:

As Bobby mentioned earlier, we had trouble with the E8 locomotive samples. The factory changed the truck design and we didn't catch it until we showed photos of the models.

Rapido doesn't have any large factories. We use four different small factories. These factories do not have the resources to make "production-like" pre-production samples. One huge factory that many companies use has an entire department tasked with nothing but making samples.

To make a fully decorated pre-production sample, you need to make copper painting masks which can't be reused if you make any sort of change to the tooling. You also need to print all the stripes and lettering using Tampo machines. Each time you print a new stripe or new number location, it can take up to an hour or more to set up the machine. With the complicated decoration of models today, that could mean two or three weeks at one tampo machine to make one sample.

We have so many projects on the go that, in order to make "finished looking" samples for all of them, our entire printing staff would be doing nothing but making samples.

We at Rapido often debate the ways to promote our models before the order deadline, and none of them is perfect. Not having access to a samples department, we have three options:

• We can make a surprise run of models - which we do occasionally for reruns - and say "they are on their way!" Examples are this month's new Tempo coaches and the most recent run of well cars. That way the model is factory painted and looks great. The downside is there is no way to predict how many to make, and if we did screw up somewhere it's too late to make a tooling change.
• We can show undecorated pre-production samples. While the serious modellers love these as they can see all the separately-applied, railroad-specific details, undecorated models do not fire up the imagination the way that decorated ones do. After all, it's much more fun to see a Warbonnet Alco PA with its two-shades of "metal" sides than it is to see one that is all light grey with brass parts stuck on here and there.
• The third option, which until now we've usually chosen, is to have Bill or Dan paint up the pre-production sample so that we can give the impression of what the final model will look like. The trouble - as we've been reminded with the E8s - is that people think that the model is finished. The caveats and disclaimers do not have the power of the visual. What we see always trumps what we read.

Compare the two images above. Which one gets you more excited? Obviously, the SP PA-2 that Bill painted. It jumps off the screen. It looks sharp! But... It is missing some grab irons that the factory didn't include. If you look closely you'll see there are no rivets on the model. And the cab door window is actually too low!

If an SP expert sees this and thinks it is a finished product, they will think we've totally dropped the ball and may cancel their order.

There is no easy choice for us regarding showing off samples. We're going to try promoting more models with the unpainted samples going forward. But if sales suffer as a result, we will go back to painting them, warts and all. And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.

HO Scale Later Phase F40PH Update

As our F40PHs are now arriving in stores, we have been informed by many customers that the sideframes are incorrect. Following on from my comments about the E8 sample, our pre-production F40 samples had the correct sideframes so we did not double-check that detail when the models arrived. See the photo above.

The factory is producing a new batch of sideframes and we will send them to any F40PH customer who requests them, at no charge of course.

This project appears to be somewhat cursed. Gremlins come up from time to time, but we rarely have so many gremlins in one project. If you watch our F40 video below, you'll learn that we could not ship the Amtrak Phase III models because the stripes were 1 scale inch too thick. Rest assured, when these things happen we will do all we can to make sure you get the correct models that you want and deserve.

For the Amtrak Phase III F40PH locomotives that are still in our warehouse awaiting new shells, we will do the sideframe swap here so you will not need to order replacement sideframes.

This is a pre-production sample! If you see anything wrong with it, please let us know but DON'T PANIC!







Shipping Updates:

In the last newsletter we discussed how shipments to our warehouse have been thrown off schedule. These products just arrived:

• HO Scale X31 Boxcars
• N Scale Horizon and Comet Cars
• N Scale VIA Rail Canada F40PH-2D

These are en-route:

• HO Scale Comets
• HO Scale F30 Flatcars
• HO Scale ATSF B36-7
• HO Scale B-100 Boxcars

[severn]

I think the snack cars are snazzz...

As to the problem outlined above in regards to mocked up pre production samples... Part of the problem with seeing even hand painted items is one naturally assumes they are at the end the of the process of getting manufacturing going.

[riogrande]

Glad to hear that the phase III Amtrak F40PHs will have the side frames swapped before shipping to vendors. I've been waiting years for these.

[jonklein611]

Oct 7, 2021 16:34:09 GMT -8 severn said:

I think the snack cars are snazzz...

As to the problem outlined above in regards to mocked up pre production samples... Part of the problem with seeing even hand painted items is one naturally assumes they are at the end the of the process of getting manufacturing going.

Rapido has stated in the past that they want to have samples in hand prior to the order books closing. Typically the molds aren't finalized at this point as Rapido wants some checks to see how things turned out. When in doubt, provide feedback if you see something amiss (if you want it to be fixed).

[SOMECALLMETIM]

“And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.”

So is this an admittance that Rapido claims highly detailed and accurate as a slogan, but focus on the casual crowd with close enough? I guess most people impulse buy with what looks good to the eye without seeing the warts.

[edwardsutorik]

Oct 7, 2021 18:51:24 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

“And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.”

That's kinda how Rapido has been going for awhile now, so no surprise.

Sadly.



Ed

[pboilermaker]

Oct 7, 2021 18:51:24 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

“And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.”

Painted or unpainted is somewhat irrelevant as far as I am concerned. If it has to be one or the other, I would opt for painted samples. You can see details through paint and you can also see where issues might be when items are painted.

Anyone remember the early Genesis GP7/9 debacle when they first came out? Certain molding and dimensional issues with the radiator intakes were only apparent when certain paint schemes were applied. The incorrect dimensions were quite obvious when the schemes did not line up properly at key landmarks. In that case, paint helped.

Painted samples grab the casual modeler, but they also show a lot of details the "expert modeler" would want to see, especially when these items are previewed at oblique angles that make detail discernment difficult.

It does not have to be mutually exclusive.

[cnsd60f]

Regarding Rapido's announcement that the E8's are postponed, does anyone know if they have confirmed correction of the issue with the Diesel Check codes on the Southern units? THeir artwork was showing those letters to be the same size as the locomotive number when it should roughly half the size. I was looking on their website and the artwork for the individual units to order looks to be correct, but the main artwork is not. I don't want to sink this kind of money into these if they aren't corrected.

I looked at Rapido's site and for the life of me I can't find a general email to send questions too. I can only find a link for product suggestions under their 'Contact' tab. There is no other email link there.

RyanC

[jonklein611]

Oct 8, 2021 7:31:52 GMT -8 cnsd60f said:

Regarding Rapido's announcement that the E8's are postponed, does anyone know if they have confirmed correction of the issue with the Diesel Check codes on the Southern units? THeir artwork was showing those letters to be the same size as the locomotive number when it should roughly half the size. I was looking on their website and the artwork for the individual units to order looks to be correct, but the main artwork is not. I don't want to sink this kind of money into these if they aren't corrected.

I looked at Rapido's site and for the life of me I can't find a general email to send questions too. I can only find a link for product suggestions under their 'Contact' tab. There is no other email link there.

RyanC

Click on Contact Us, not the dropdown menu:


rapidotrains.com/contact-us

[mdvle]

Oct 7, 2021 18:51:24 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

“And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.”

So is this an admittance that Rapido claims highly detailed and accurate as a slogan, but focus on the casual crowd with close enough? I guess most people impulse buy with what looks good to the eye without seeing the warts.

That isn't what was said at all - you chose to selectively quote Rapido's letter to twist things to suit your own personal agenda.

[SOMECALLMETIM]

So what do you think was said?

Oct 8, 2021 16:45:13 GMT -8 mdvle said:

Oct 7, 2021 18:51:24 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

“And we'll just have to accept that we will lose some expert modellers who think we've lost the plot but gain more than enough casual modellers to make up for it.”

So is this an admittance that Rapido claims highly detailed and accurate as a slogan, but focus on the casual crowd with close enough? I guess most people impulse buy with what looks good to the eye without seeing the warts.

That isn't what was said at all - you chose to selectively quote Rapido's letter to twist things to suit your own personal agenda.

[mdvle]

Oct 8, 2021 17:29:04 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

So what do you think was said?

Oct 8, 2021 16:45:13 GMT -8 mdvle said:

That isn't what was said at all - you chose to selectively quote Rapido's letter to twist things to suit your own personal agenda.

Jason starts off listing the 3 options (that Rapido feels they have) - wait until the models are on their way from China and show actual production samples, they can show the undecorated EP samples, or they can take the EP models and have Rapido staff (Bill or Dan) paint them up to give a representation of what is being offered.

The caveat with option three (the hand painted EP samples) is that many people either ignore the disclaimers that accompany these images (or someone reposts the images without including the disclaimers) and think that they are final models - even though they are actually EP samples that may have stuff not yet added to the tooling (like rivets) or some small parts missing.

Jason then proceeds to show 2 images of their Alco PA model - one hand decorated for SP, plus the plain EP sample.

Jason then notes that the painted sample - while a lot more attractive to look at and thus likely to encourage more sales - is missing parts that the factory didn't send (grab irons), the rivets aren't yet added to the tooling, and one of the windows is needs incorrect (whether that is because it is for a different roadname or tooling that needs to be fixed isn't stated).

The danger is that the SP fan will note those missing/incorrect features - ignore the disclaimer - and conclude the model is incorrect when it isn't(*) but instead it is just an early sample - and this of course can apply to whatever relevant paint schemes used for other model samples.

So, when one reads the entire paragraph that you selectively quoted, and given the above background, what Jason is saying is if their experiment going forward of using unpainted EP samples causes a drop in orders they will return to the current system - where they risk losing sales from those who ignore the disclaimers but overall gain more sales because painted models (likely) create more pre-orders.

So no, it isn't Rapido saying they are focusing on the "casual crowd" - but they will return to painted EP samples if necessary to generate the level of preorders to make products viable.

* - yes, there is an implication that the models will at release be accurate - and yes, I agree that Rapido have struggled and far too often failed to deliver.  But that is a separate issue than what Jason is discussing.

[es80ac]

Will the F40PH including Amtrak phase 2 being shipped have the correct side frame as it is or do customers needs to order replacement part? I am not too clear about this. Thanks

[mdvle]

Oct 8, 2021 18:37:13 GMT -8 es80ac said:

Will the F40PH including Amtrak phase 2 being shipped have the correct side frame as it is or do customers needs to order replacement part? I am not too clear about this. Thanks

From the newsletter (and confirmed in their live event last night):

For the Amtrak Phase III F40PH locomotives that are still in our warehouse awaiting new shells, we will do the sideframe swap here so you will not need to order replacement sideframes.

The only locos that have remained in the Rapido warehouse are the Phase III units - all others including the Amtrak Phase II paint scheme have shipped out and so customers will need to request the free replacement sideframes.

[SOMECALLMETIM]

So please explain the difference between expert and casual modelers Jason is talking about in the section I quoted. I am sure it is more than expert modelers ignore the disclaimer.

Are casual modelers those who accept what ever they release because they don’t know any better, maybe don’t care, and don’t complain? Is he meaning expert modelers see the errors, point them out, and then don’t purchase the model if it’s not fixed (or do because of cost/benefit analysis), and complain about it - which is likely why they are not on this forum. So he gains more of the casual modelers by painting it - like I said people impulse buy when they see eye candy and are blind to the warts. The casual modeler is easier to please and they gain more of them.

Oct 8, 2021 18:35:11 GMT -8 mdvle said:

Oct 8, 2021 17:29:04 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

So what do you think was said?

Jason starts off listing the 3 options (that Rapido feels they have) - wait until the models are on their way from China and show actual production samples, they can show the undecorated EP samples, or they can take the EP models and have Rapido staff (Bill or Dan) paint them up to give a representation of what is being offered.

The caveat with option three (the hand painted EP samples) is that many people either ignore the disclaimers that accompany these images (or someone reposts the images without including the disclaimers) and think that they are final models - even though they are actually EP samples that may have stuff not yet added to the tooling (like rivets) or some small parts missing.

Jason then proceeds to show 2 images of their Alco PA model - one hand decorated for SP, plus the plain EP sample.

Jason then notes that the painted sample - while a lot more attractive to look at and thus likely to encourage more sales - is missing parts that the factory didn't send (grab irons), the rivets aren't yet added to the tooling, and one of the windows is needs incorrect (whether that is because it is for a different roadname or tooling that needs to be fixed isn't stated).

The danger is that the SP fan will note those missing/incorrect features - ignore the disclaimer - and conclude the model is incorrect when it isn't(*) but instead it is just an early sample - and this of course can apply to whatever relevant paint schemes used for other model samples.

So, when one reads the entire paragraph that you selectively quoted, and given the above background, what Jason is saying is if their experiment going forward of using unpainted EP samples causes a drop in orders they will return to the current system - where they risk losing sales from those who ignore the disclaimers but overall gain more sales because painted models (likely) create more pre-orders.

So no, it isn't Rapido saying they are focusing on the "casual crowd" - but they will return to painted EP samples if necessary to generate the level of preorders to make products viable.

* - yes, there is an implication that the models will at release be accurate - and yes, I agree that Rapido have struggled and far too often failed to deliver.  But that is a separate issue than what Jason is discussing.

[es80ac]

Oct 8, 2021 18:39:11 GMT -8 mdvle said:

Oct 8, 2021 18:37:13 GMT -8 es80ac said:

Will the F40PH including Amtrak phase 2 being shipped have the correct side frame as it is or do customers needs to order replacement part? I am not too clear about this. Thanks

From the newsletter (and confirmed in their live event last night):

For the Amtrak Phase III F40PH locomotives that are still in our warehouse awaiting new shells, we will do the sideframe swap here so you will not need to order replacement sideframes.

The only locos that have remained in the Rapido warehouse are the Phase III units - all others including the Amtrak Phase II paint scheme have shipped out and so customers will need to request the free replacement sideframes.

Thanks!  But it still makes one wonder why Rapido did not check out the production units before shiping them out?  While having replacement truck sideframes is better than having the wrong sideframes, it is still a hassel to order and install them.

[cemr5396]

Oct 8, 2021 19:38:27 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

So please explain the difference between expert and casual modelers Jason is talking about in the section I quoted. I am sure it is more than expert modelers ignore the disclaimer.

While it is true that both 'expert' and 'casual' modelers are just as likely to ignore the 'THIS IS A PRE PRODUCTION MODEL' disclaimer, Jason's point was that if casual modelers ignore the disclaimer, it does not affect the bottom line. They're gonna buy what they're gonna buy regardless. An 'expert' modeler who ignores the disclaimer, sees things he doesn't like and chooses not to order as a result does affect the bottom line. 

The fact that it's a pre-production model, it's not perfect, and it should (hopefully) be fixed for release becomes irrelevant if it's warts scare away more potential customers than it gains.

[mdvle]

Oct 8, 2021 19:38:27 GMT -8 SOMECALLMETIM said:

So please explain the difference between expert and casual modelers Jason is talking about in the section I quoted. I am sure it is more than expert modelers ignore the disclaimer.

Are casual modelers those who accept what ever they release because they don’t know any better, maybe don’t care, and don’t complain? Is he meaning expert modelers see the errors, point them out, and then don’t purchase the model if it’s not fixed

Oct 8, 2021 18:35:11 GMT -8 mdvle said:

By expert modelers he is talking about people who are very familiar with the prototype, care about accuracy, many of them not participating on forums or social media, and simply see an incorrect image and assume the model is incorrect and don't buy it (as opposed to the expert modellers who do partake in social media and/or provide feedback to Rapido and thus may become aware of the nature of the sample).

Casual modellers don't know / don't care - they run what they like and aren't trying to necessarily recreate the real thing with any accuracy.

An example of casual modellers - when Athearn brought out their model of the Bombardier Bi-levels those many years ago they sold a lot of them painted for GO Transit, and those models were very popular and seen a lot on layouts in Toronto area train shows.  But as far as GO Transit is concerned those models are an entire work of fiction - GO never bought that version of the prototype cars.  For myself, as a then frequent rider of GO Trains they looked so wrong I couldn't even consider buying them - but it didn't matter to most people and they quite happily bought the models and had fun running them.