Least Expensive Decoder Programmer

[santafe49]

I currently run a Digitrax system, DCS-100 command station and a PR-4 decoder programmer. I also use Decoder-Pro to program decoders.
My quest is to determine the least expensive form of a decoder programmer that is set up as a stand alone programmer. NOT connected to LocoNet that will interface with a computer, via USB, running Windows 10. I would then be able to program via DecoderPro.
I have run the numbers for the various one's listed by the major manufacturer's and $75 is the base i am looking at.
Any suggestions for a less expensive form?

[jonklein611]

In theory the cheapest is the command station you already have, editing CV's one at a time via the programming track. Can't decoder pro interface with this side and write cv's to the programming track directly?

Standalone would be more like ESU's lokprogammer, but these will be more expensive as they have to include the DCC hardware to function (basically a mini command station / computer interface in a single device). Broadway limited makes a very simple device that just changes locomotive addresses, but I assume you want more fidelity than that.

From DecoderPro's website:

You will need, a means to connect between your computer and the track on which the locomotive rests, that will take serial instructions and generate DCC packets on the rails. At a minimum, a command station/booster( your DCC system will probably suffice), an additional hardware interface to send commands from your computer to the command station (this could be as simple as a serial cable), and a programming track set up according to the manufacturer's instructions.

For some systems, you will also need an additional hardware interface to send the commands from your computer to the command station, and from there on to the decoder in the locomotive. For a Digitrax system, for example, you will need either the PR3 programmer or a LocoBuffer. The PR1 device from Digitrax is a stand-alone programmer and is not usable with this software.

For those who do not have any DCC hardware yet and are considering purchasing a DCC locomotive and want to use DecoderPro to program it consider the SPROG II USB. It has all the electronics in one package with enough output to run a locomotive. It comes complete with the USB cable, power supply, instructions and JMRI on disk. All you need in addition, is the test track.

You will also need, of course, some locomotives with the decoders installed which you can program.

[lajoiejacques]

You already have all the hardware you need. Simply connect the output of the PR4 to a piece of track. Here is my own setup : Laptop running DecoderPro, Digitrax PR3 connected to a piece of Bachmann track. There is no need of a DCC command station.

You should use the following setting : System connection PR4,   Command Station Type PR4 Standalone Programmer,   Serial Port the one provided by your computer.   

[santafe49]

Sorry, but both of you have missed the point.

The question is: Is there a less expensive programmer than a PR4? Standalone with no connection to LocoNet?

I have been a user of Digitrax since the late 90"s. Way before even the PR3. Using MS-100 via a serial port on a desktop. And no DecoderPro. The PR4 is $76 + shipping street price. ESU LokSound programmer is $150 + shipping street price.

So, the question remains. Is there a less expensive means to program a decoder with a standalone system not connected to LocoNet?

[lajoiejacques]

Looks like my reply was unclear to you. You already have all the required hardware needed to program decoder without using a connection to loconet. You already own what is required how can you find anything less expensive than that. When using a PR4 in standalone mode there is no connection to loconet. Please reread my first reply. Of curse I am assuming you already own a PR4. You may also take a look at the SPROG III, I don't know the price though.

[nsc39d8]

I think everyone's question is why and what are you wanting to change. I will even say I didn't reply till now because of not understanding you question, it is confusing since you have all the components.
Apparently the PR4 is the cheapest because on the JMRI/Decoder Pro page the recommendation is for a SPROGIIv4 or SPROGIII.
The ESU Lokprogrammer is mainly beneficial if you are using ESU Lok decoders and want to load sounds files and update decoder firmware, you need the decoder tester as well.
You can use Decoder Pro to program LokPilot decoders.
I use the SPROG III and a short piece of track.

[santafe49]

I will explain. My Digtrax system is set up in a slide drawer underneath the layout. All screwed down and the cables are all strapped down.
I am away from home several weeks a month and take my modelling items with me to detail and to install decoders. I was seeking a programmer which might be less expensive than a PR-4, if one exists. That way i can adjust the CV's after the install, but don't need a command station to run them when away.
I looked at setting up an Arduino, but find they do not seem to behave well programming CV's.
A Sprog II At $95 street would be a possible alternative, as it would be a programmer and could used to operate the engine on the short piece of track to check the CV setting's. And it's form factor seems smaller than a PR-4.
I will ponder what you have all suggested and then decide.
Thanks to all who replied.

[nsc39d8]

Thanks for the clarification! Now it makes sense to me. I would recommend SPROG neither the 2v4 or 3 and piece of track of your choosing, I wold say a 3FT max or several sections of snap track from Bachmann or Kato. It is very nice to switch from programming to driving in DecoderPro to check your work.

[jonklein611]

Feb 8, 2022 15:48:52 GMT -8 santafe49 said:

I will explain. My Digtrax system is set up in a slide drawer underneath the layout. All screwed down and the cables are all strapped down.
I am away from home several weeks a month and take my modelling items with me to detail and to install decoders. I was seeking a programmer which might be less expensive than a PR-4, if one exists. That way i can adjust the CV's after the install, but don't need a command station to run them when away.
I looked at setting up an Arduino, but find they do not seem to behave well programming CV's.
A Sprog II At $95 street would be a possible alternative, as it would be a programmer and could used to operate the engine on the short piece of track to check the CV setting's. And it's form factor seems smaller than a PR-4.
I will ponder what you have all suggested and then decide.
Thanks to all who replied.

For this use case a Sprog II would be your best bet. Thanks for providing additional details, it helped us all understand what you were trying to do.

I did a similar setup but with a Lokprogrammer and have a few sections of EZ track (HO) and UniTrak (N) connected for decoder testing / min run testing that sit on my computer desk. You could even go shorter with track and use a roller set to do full running while stationary.

[crblue]

Can DCC++ program? Because that's pretty cheap. Otherwise, SPROG is probably your best bet.

[Gino Damen]

Hi,

In the long run the difference in cost between the various programmers just diminishes. The real question is which programmer can be used the longest and fits your needs?

The ESU programmer makes only sense if you have standardised on ESU decoders. In that case the programmer is worth it’s weight in gold. No other programmer can so fast read and write ESU decoders. You can also run the engine with the decoder as long as the current the engine needs doesn’t exceed the 500 mA limit. You can programm other decoders with it, but that is a truly pain in the you know where.

If you use primarily other decoder brands then I would go for the SprogIIv4. That thing can program anything that JMRI can identify. A nice bonus is that you also can use it as an command station with JMRI so besides programming you can also test your engine as long as you don’t exceed the 1A limit.

Last thing to consider, the ESU software is Windows based (.NET) and JMRI can be run on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Disclosure, I have both so above is based on first-hand experience with these programmers. The SprogII is a V2 and about 8 years old. The ESU programmer is one of the first grey one's and at least 8 years old. These devices are designed to last so as long as you keep them dry and store them safely when not used you can get a lot of milage out of them.

[santafe49]

Just to give a final update.
I was contacted by a modeler who pointed me in the correct direction to use Arduino. He explained what parts needed and where to get the programs. And then how to set it up to work as well as any DDC system. And straightened out some misconceptions.
Got my parts, a Generic Mega 2560, motor shield, and a couple of connectors from Amazon. I had the two power supplies, a 9V and 15V, in my junk box, so no cost there.
Followed the directions and had it up and running. Opened DecoderPro, set the DCC++ up and was able to read and program a Loco. It was not an ESU, i don't have any of those.
Also was able to power up the main track attached and run the engine via the DecoderPro throttle. I could also add a WiFi module and run trains via Engine Driver on a phone. But, i really don't need that.
All in a total of $32.30. So, about half the cost of a Digitrax PR-4 (programmer only). Or a third of the Sprog II.