SDL39 with sound and motion but no ligh6s

[rockisland652]

We have a ScaleTrains SDL39 that we clipped a Tsunami2 in it.

It looks great and we have full motion and sound, but no lights.

Did we miss something?

[biggazza]

George from SoundTraxx has done a video on this with a PNP decoder in a different model but may be similar :

[ncrc5315]

I would remove the Scale Trains board, and install a Decoder Buddy, then plug in the 21 pin decoder of choice.

[riogrande]

From the SDL39 topic in the ho forum:

"The ScaleTrains website says this depending on the model you purchased:

Operating Front and rear pilot mounted alternating LED ditch lights*

Operating LED-lit Prime PM-8901 Stratolite Beacon*
Operating LED-lit tricolor (red, green, and white) flush-mounted class lights with raised gasket**
Operating LED-lit cab interior and control stand lights*
Operating LED-lit front, rear, and fireman’s side walkway lights*
Operating LED-lit ground lights on both sides of locomotive
Printed and LED-lighted number boards
Directional LED headlights


* These features only function with an ESU DCC decoder installed while operating in DCC
** During DC operation, class lights illuminate in white. Access to other colors and the ability to change colors requires an ESU DCC decoder while operating in DCC"

The above I dictates you'll need an ESU decoder. Decoder buddy may or may not work.

[ncrc5315]

It is my understanding, the issue is the Scale trains mother board, therefore I would assume by removing the Scale Trains mother board, and installing a new mother board, you would then be able to access all of the functions, as long as the decoder selected had enough functions. I go the other way, removing the Tsunami, and installing an ESu, otherwise I would give it a test. If my count is correct, it looks like 12 functions are needed, and this is how many the Decoder Buddy supports.

[oldmuley]

I’ve got the same issue, but installed a Digitrax DH166MT. The engine operates fine but no lights. From what I’m hearing the ESU LokPilot won’t work 100% out of the box, but need to have specific programming done. Im seriously considering yanking the ScaleTrains board and installing a Decoder Buddy so I can use my existing decoders. A $250 model that’s “DCC Ready” should NOT be this much of a PITA.

[oldmuley]

I contacted ScaleTrains about the lack of lightning when using my own (Digitrax DH166MT) decoder, and this was their response:

Thank you for your purchase of our SDL39 model. I am sorry that you are having trouble. We are looking into reports of lighting irregularities and other reports and will be sharing anything we find soon. Please watch our social media feeds, YouTube channel and e-newsletter for updates as they are made available.

Hopefully they have a solution sooner than later.

[jonklein611]

Mar 7, 2022 15:04:22 GMT -8 oldmuley said:

I’ve got the same issue, but installed a Digitrax DH166MT. The engine operates fine but no lights. From what I’m hearing the ESU LokPilot won’t work 100% out of the box, but need to have specific programming done. Im seriously considering yanking the ScaleTrains board and installing a Decoder Buddy so I can use my existing decoders. A $250 model that’s “DCC Ready” should NOT be this much of a PITA.

Could it be the difference in implementation of the 21 pin standard?


www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/21mtcconnector.html

Also a discussion from ST on their SD40-2 model:

Per Matt Herman of ESU, LLC, regarding remapping or modification of the operation of class lights...

The ScaleTrains SD40-2s are already using 12(!) outputs by using a special motherboard providing some extra logic. They also include the ESU PowerPack on this motherboard. (This is the reason they are using a V4.0 btw…) To separate the front and rear class lights would require 3 additional outputs as you would need one more output for each color. Unfortunately the extra outputs are simply not available to do so as they are all currently used for other functions.

Gone are the days of only being to have Front light and Rear light pre-installed…. But 15 outputs plus a PowerPack is still a little bit out on the horizon.

The possibility would exist to add an ESU LokPilot FX decoder which would give you the additional outputs needed but it would have to be hardwired. For what it’s worth the rear class lights on an SD40-2 were rarely used so I have seen some modelers simply disconnecting them but this is only a suggestion…

The ScaleTrains SD40-2s are already using 12(!) outputs by using a special motherboard providing some extra logic. They also include the ESU PowerPack on this motherboard. (This is the reason they are using a V4.0 btw…)

To separate the front and rear class lights would require 3 additional outputs as you would need one more output for each color. Unfortunately the extra outputs are simply not available to do so as they are all currently used for other functions.

Gone are the days of only being to have Front light and Rear light pre-installed…. But 15 outputs plus a PowerPack is still a little bit out on the horizon.

The possibility would exist to add an ESU LokPilot FX decoder which would give you the additional outputs needed but it would have to be hardwired. For what it’s worth the rear class lights on an SD40-2 were rarely used so I have seen some modelers simply disconnecting them but this is only a suggestion…

[Mark R.]

The ESU decoders use logic level outputs as well as line level outputs. The SXT mother board contains the transistors to convert the logic level to line level. Feeding a logic level input (5V) with line level output (~12V) could obviously damage something. ESU also uses a sound slot in order to control the sequencing logic for the class lights, which obviously no other decoder is capable of doing.

In todays world where manufacturers are having decoders programmed specifically for each engine, the option of mixing in another brand decoder quickly goes out the window (without some serious modifications). Best bet is to use the decoder the engine was designed to use.

Mark.

[jonklein611]

Update from the main SDL39 thread:

Updates from Matt Herman of ESU for those not on facebook (Milwaukee Road Modelers page):

"Hi Guys, Matt from ESU.... I first wanted to mention that I've been personally following both of your layout progress for some time. I'm a fan! You are both fantastic modelers and I definitely want to help solve this problem.

Contrary to popular belief this loco was NOT designed so that other decoders will not work. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there. While of course there is going to be limitations to other brands because of capabilities of those brands, you are correct that the headlights should work. I'm almost 100% positive this a just a mistake in the manual on the proper orientation of the dip switches. I will check for the proper settings first thing in the morning and get back to everyone. ESU does not make the motherboard in Scaletrains locomotives. We helped design the circuit based on our customers needs. As long as the factory followed our design the headlights should work. I'm sorry for the trouble that you are having but this isn't by design. It's an error at most and I'm sure it can be fixed very easily. I encourage anyone with this problem to reach out to me personally and I will help. [e-mail]

I will also post a solution here as soon as I get to the office this morning and try our models, as they were delivered over the weekend! As modelers ourselves we are as excited about finally having SDL39s as you all are!"

"Hi Everyone, Just wanted to send out a quick update. I had a long discussion with our engineers this morning. While there is in fact a typo in the manual the dip switches are not the problem with the headlights.

I did confirm that ALL Scaletrains motherboards are IN FACT fully within the NMRA standards. The problem is that other decoder manufacturers are not utilizing all of the features offered by the NMRA standards for the 21MTC decoders.

www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.1.1.3_21mtc_decoder_interface_2.pdf

Here is a link to the standards as of Dec 2020 that describe the Physical outputs and the Logical outputs that EVERY DCC manufacturer can use. So if any manufacturer states that ESU and ScaleTrains are using a non NMRA compliant motherboard that is strictly speaking, dishonest. The problem is simply that most non ESU brand decoder are not making a decoder with enough outputs, not that they can't, or that we use some special code in our logic outputs. This is a standard protocol that anyone can use. Please don't be fooled by misinformation.

As mentioned our engineers are working closely with Scaletrains and the factory to find a solution to the headlight problem with non ESU decoders. As soon as we find what is causing the issue, and have a suggestion of what to do to resolve it, I will post again."

[oldmuley]

Scale trains put out a video showing how to install a jumper between two pins on the 21MTC interface. They suggest installing a jumper between pins 5 and 16 to access lighting effects. I toggled the DIP switches to "off" setting as per the manual.

I did this on my SOO Line 583 which I've installed a Digitrax DH166MT and here's what I've found:

F0: Forward and reverse lights work as expected
F1: Turns on the walkway lights (front, rear, and fireman side long hood), front/rear number boards, and ground lights (under cab)
F2: Turns on white class lights
F3 though F28: nothing

What doesn't work: cab interior and control stands, stratolight beacon

Next, I did the exact same thing with my Wisconsin Central 582 with another DH166MT decoder installed:

F0: Forward and reverse lights work as expected
F1: Turns on the walkway lights (front, rear, and fireman side long hood), front/rear number boards, and ground lights (under cab)
F2: Turns on white class lights
F3 though F28: nothing

What doesn't work: cab interior and control stands, ditch lights

So while it's nice to get working headlights, it would be way better to have access to all the lights. I guess at this point it's either live with what works, wait for an ESU LokPilot v5 #59629 and hope that all the lights will work with the new decoder, or rip the ScaleTrains motherboard out, install a Decoder Buddy, rewire everything, and install my own decoder.

Scale

[oldmuley]

I spoke with my LHS today about the SDl39 "not-so-DCC-ready" and shared some of my questions. The guys there basically said they have sent a lot of e-mails back and forth and there is no definitive action. I asked them if I got the recommended LokPilot v5 decoder would I be set to go, and they indicated that really the only way to properly program an ESU decoder is with a LokProgrammer. So popping in a LokPilot, firing up JMRI and programming away, isn't really an option.

With that being said, I decided that I'm going to rip out the existing ScaleTrains board and wire in a Decoder Buddy. I plan on carefully documenting the process and maybe even make my first youtube video.

[Gino Damen]

Hi,

If you are going to use a LokPilot JMRI can do the job. It takes perhaps some time to read al the variables, but that is also the case with other modern decoders which have a lot of options.

The LokProgrammer is only needed when you want (need) to update the decoder firmware (all type of ESU decoders) or change the soundfile in a LokSound decoder. A good LHS has a programmer availible as a decoder tester. If they have the latest version of the LokProgrammer software installed it is just a matter of minutes to update the firmware to the latest version. Currently the firmware for the 5-series is stable so when up-to-date there isn't a compelling reason to keep updating the firmware and you can live without the programmer.

[ncrc5315]

While the Lok programmer is needed for firmware updates, and to download sound files, it certainly isn’t needed for CV changes. A computer interface and JMRI is all that is needed.

[oldmuley]

I ended up pulling out the Scaletrains board and put in a Decoder Buddy and a Digitrax DH166MT. The decoder is a 6 function, so some compromises needed to be made with the lights, but for my purposes it works fine.