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Post by markfj on Mar 14, 2022 4:19:43 GMT -8
Is the Bowser C628 a reworked Stewart model or is it all new tooling? Does Bowser consider this to be an “executive line” model?    Thanks, Mark |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Mar 14, 2022 5:15:55 GMT -8
The Bowser C628 and C630 are both of Stewart heritage. Bowser has made some tooling upgrades to the models shell and chassis.
I have both Stewart and Bowser C630's and can see a difference between the models.
D&H 609 is listed on Bowser's site as an Executive line model. If the class lights work then I would say this model has new tooling.
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Post by ambluco on Mar 14, 2022 6:16:48 GMT -8
Also Executive Line has added detail parts that were missing on the Stewart.
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Post by nsc39d8 on Mar 14, 2022 6:25:13 GMT -8
Also Executive Line has added detail parts that were missing on the Stewart. Agreed! Mark's pictures show a lot of them as well. All the grab irons, lift rings and rain shield are. present. along with MU hoses, coupler lift, antenna, wipers. I had to add these to mine. The one have left also rides on Atlas FM trucks. I will get some pics. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 14, 2022 6:42:57 GMT -8
D&H 609 is either 24713 or 24716 (sound equipped) from the most recent release which puttered in in batches around a year ago.
These models were greatly improved detail-wise even over past runs from Bowser.
Bowser bought out Stewart and owns all of their tooling.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 8:33:38 GMT -8
Lee has re-done the handrails twice since the purchase of Stewart, both to get them to stay in the holes more effectively and to obtain a more scale appearance. The plastic used for the handrails was changed away from Delrin to an abs plastic that can be painted without priming (allowing for a more scale appearance as paint film thickness is reduced), and if broken, the handrails can now be glued if you have the correct glue for them. There are two glues recommended on the Bowser website, one of which is Lazerbond, that can be used to glue handrails or just about anything. The new handrails are more rigid than the old Stewart handrails, and yet are still flexible and will take some bending and punishment without breaking. My cat has knocked Bowser engines off the track, with considerable bending to some handrails, and yet they can be carefully repositioned without breaking.
They have also gone through several different motors up to now. Today's motors are better compatible with dcc and all the advanced lighting and sound functions demanded by today's buyers while still providing a lot of torque to pull trains.
The motors that were formerly used are not suitable or rather were not designed for advanced dcc operation.
Almost all the separately applied details on the engines are brass or stainless steel. Bowser does not believe in using plastic detail parts as some other manufacturers will, but instead even going back to their steam engines preferred to use metal detail parts for durability.
The Alco cab roofs were re-done to fix the incorrect Stewart roof contours actually based upon comments received from modelers on the Atlas Rescue Forum. This meant that a new cab was designed to replace the Stewart cabs. The change is actually a subtle change, but it was incorporated into all the Centuries and M-Series.
The lights have been upgraded to LED. In many cases now, working class lights are provided with changeable colors in dcc operation. Illuminated number boards are now standard.
Although Lee does not actively monitor these forums, when issues have arisen, he has listened and has made improvements to the products to address comments received. Just because he is not a frequent poster here does not mean he does not know what is going on. There are a number of members of these forums that do not hesitate to telephone Lee directly when or if any problems are encountered, or if something is said that they think deserves a response from Lee.
John
Disclaimer: I am not authorized to speak on behalf of Bowser or any other manufacturer. It has now been 30 years since I last was employed by Bowser. |
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Post by es80ac on Mar 14, 2022 12:00:33 GMT -8
They have also gone through several different motors up to now. Today's motors are better compatible with dcc and all the advanced lighting and sound functions demanded by today's buyers while still providing a lot of torque to pull trains.
The motors that were formerly used are not suitable or rather were not designed for advanced dcc operation.
John, what would be the difference between the DCC sound compatible motors and pure DC motors? Are the DCC compatible motors these days somehow weaker than the the DC motors? I personally feel the motors in most of the manufactures outside of Walthers and Scaletrains are not very strong compare to old renditions. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 13:09:50 GMT -8
I'm not a motor expert but will try to provide a reasonable answer:
I have read on other forums, including the MR dcc and electronics forum, that the motor you want for a sound-equipped engine has to be different from those older Kato-clone motors. One issue is that if you are going to have sound in an HO loco, you need to have a quieter motor (and quieter gearboxes) or else the sound will be drowned out particularly at higher speed/higher rpms. The manufacturers have to try to balance those requirements against the desire to pull every freight car you can attach behind it.
I do not think the motors today are necessarily "weaker". Several years ago there were some weak torque motors but they were quickly dropped and replaced by multiple manufacturers. Much of pulling capacity has to do with loco weight. The heaviest locos tend to pull the best. Right now that is the Genesis 2.0 locos. They are the best pullers and are also the heaviest, heavier by far than any Gevo or C44-9W or SD40-2. The SD90MAC and DDA40X are incredible on the layout.
John
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Post by keystonefarm on Mar 14, 2022 18:07:21 GMT -8
All of the Stewart six axle Centuries were equipped with Buehler motors made in North Carolina. Not sure where the motors that Bowser uses come from but either type will work fine with DCC. ---------Ken
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 17:27:51 GMT -8
While some people liked Buehler motors, they were apparently outnumbered by folks that complained about them and were dropped many years ago specifically due to complaints that were received (was that due to motor failures?). I also would be careful of saying that all Stewart Centuries came with them, because when Stewart started out they were not using Buehler motors, but in some cases entire drive mechanisms purchased directly from Kato and also from Athearn. There were U25B's with entire Kato drives and others had entire Athearn drive mechanisms. I once owned both versions. Then Stewart subsequently used a clone mechanism.
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 15, 2022 22:29:49 GMT -8
Stewart production follows a timeline, it's not just random luck of the draw what parts they used in their engines.
Initially they used Athearn drive components - motor, flywheel and trucks. They were cheap and readily available.
Later, they began using Kato components, some of the same ones used in yellow box Atlas locomotives.
Finally they went to clones of the Kato drive, and I believe some of those components Bowser continues to use on their releases of the same models.
All of the engines which used these components were four axle - RS3, AS16, U25B, F3 and F7. I am not sure if the AS616 could also be had with a Kato drive, although the trucks used for Atlas RSD models could possibly have been used with the sideframes changed.
I'm not aware of any Century with a Kato motor. as their drive is different and specific. It too has various incarnations as it was changed several times, some have issues with the shafts slipping, some have a big circuit board inside with LED class lights, etc.
I do have here a chassis for an RS3 which has a Kato drive and to make it work they only used one flywheel. It looks like they just cast up a plastic mount to allow a Kato motor to attach using the holes designed for Athearn rubber mounts.
What Bowser uses in the models is likely the same as many others use, now that all of them are made in China. The inside was reworked as much as the outside to get them right.
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Post by middledivision on Mar 16, 2022 7:09:26 GMT -8
The Bowser C628 and C630 are both of Stewart heritage. Bowser has made some tooling upgrades to the models shell and chassis. I have both Stewart and Bowser C630's and can see a difference between the models. D&H 609 is listed on Bowser's site as an Executive line model. If the class lights work then I would say this model has new tooling. I have a Stewart PRR 628 that had operating class lights...You had to install and wire them but they were included. |
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Post by keystonefarm on Mar 16, 2022 17:53:43 GMT -8
Stewart production follows a timeline, it's not just random luck of the draw what parts they used in their engines. Initially they used Athearn drive components - motor, flywheel and trucks. They were cheap and readily available. Later, they began using Kato components, some of the same ones used in yellow box Atlas locomotives. Finally they went to clones of the Kato drive, and I believe some of those components Bowser continues to use on their releases of the same models. All of the engines which used these components were four axle - RS3, AS16, U25B, F3 and F7. I am not sure if the AS616 could also be had with a Kato drive, although the trucks used for Atlas RSD models could possibly have been used with the sideframes changed. I'm not aware of any Century with a Kato motor. as their drive is different and specific. It too has various incarnations as it was changed several times, some have issues with the shafts slipping, some have a big circuit board inside with LED class lights, etc. I do have here a chassis for an RS3 which has a Kato drive and to make it work they only used one flywheel. It looks like they just cast up a plastic mount to allow a Kato motor to attach using the holes designed for Athearn rubber mounts. What Bowser uses in the models is likely the same as many others use, now that all of them are made in China. The inside was reworked as much as the outside to get them right. Actually ALL the C-628's and 630's that Stewart produced had Buehler motors in them. The early RS-3 had Athearn motors and trucks. Same with the original U-25B's. All the early F units were Kato. The FT's were Stewarts own trucks and Buehler motors. The 616 had a Stewart built truck . Later production runs of 4 axle units did use the Stewart trucks. While I did not work for Stewart I was a good friend of Steve's and helped with product ideas and testing. --- Ken |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 25, 2024 0:10:22 GMT -8
That's..... what I said. Have examples of early RS3 and AS16 with full Athearn drive, believe some U25Bs exist in this form too. Have examples of AS16 with Kato drive; have had examples of F-units with same right down to blanked out markings on the bottom truck plate, most of the truck parts identical to Atlas-Kato engines.
The big Alcos are 6-axle locomotives and don't use any of those parts. They have their own series of drive incarnations and electronic guts right up to the most recent Bowser releases. Many Stewart examples are prone to internal slipping issues.
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