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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 14, 2022 8:07:51 GMT -8
I just read a piece about lighting HO numberboards separately from the associated headlights, and started to wonder at the circumstances of lighting same, in the real world.
A quick search found someone who said that only the numberboards on the unit associated with train orders would be lit. This makes sense at night, as you wouldn't have to sort through all the display numbers and compare each with your list of possibles.
Anyway. A few questions for people who know/have experience:
Is the above true? If not, what IS the deal?
If so, would it be only in the direction of travel, or both ends of the unit?
Would the illumination be only during night and dimly lit times, or all day and night?
And, if there ARE rules about this, to what extent are they enforced?
On a similar but different subject, I'll note that I thumbed through a book featuring photos of early BN along the Columbia. Almost all the time, I could see that the class lights were lit during the daytime. NOT seeing it did not mean they were unlit, just that I couldn't tell. In this case, it's pretty obvious the rule wasn't "if you're in the mood....".
Ed
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 14, 2022 8:32:49 GMT -8
This is another one of those things that seems to vary by road/rulebook, but traditionally, yes, only the lead engine would have front numberboards (and class lights) on. To add to that, several roads also required both class lights AND flags for the lead engine.
Typically it seems they need to be on at all times as well.
Best bet it to check your favorite rulebook (lord knows there's enough of them for every railroad at every train show now it seems).
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Post by BrightFuture Decals on Jun 14, 2022 9:19:42 GMT -8
It depends on the road and the era. Now a days, the locomotive either designated on the track warrant or as the leader of the train should have the number boards lit. Modern rule books do not specify about rear number boards or direction of travel, at least not the books I work under. Plus, many modern locomotives don't even have rear number boards. Typically it's not really enforced and everybody just does it, but it's one of those things they will ding you for if they are trying to fire you and you have a target on your back.
For some reason, NS doesn't seem to follow the same rules. Most of the time, every number board light on every unit is left on. There's nothing better than having to walk through a consist of 8 locomotives that came from NS to your railroad and having to turn off every single number board light.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 14, 2022 15:44:16 GMT -8
Best bet it to check your favorite rulebook (lord knows there's enough of them for every railroad at every train show now it seems). For some reason, I assumed that info wasn't in the book. But your prompting got me to check to confirm my view. Wrong Edward, it's there. 1980 CCOR Rule 24 "On trains [see definition of "train"], the engine number must be illuminated on engines equipped with indicators. When an engine consists of more than one unit, the number of one unit only will be illuminated when in service and will be the identifying number; the numbers of other units must not be illuminated. When practicable, the number of the leading unit must be used." The rule does not CLEARLY state whether the number should or should not be lit on both ends. My guess is it MUST be in the direction of travel, and MAY be also at the other end. This also confirms that the lit number must match the number for the train, itself. And that it doesn't HAVE to be the lead unit, but that it is HIGHLY preferred. The numbers also must be lit day and night, as there is no exception noted for daytime running. I have been trying to puzzle out how I want to handle lit numberboards on models. To follow the rule above, it would seem best to illuminate numberboards whenever a headlight is lit, either by using the same light source, or by using the same power source as the headlight nearby. However, IF the numberboards have a different power source (a different function button), then they may be dimmed at a separate level than the headlights. Meaning they can be much dimmer than the headlight just by changing CV's for the numberboard function. Thanks, guys, for your useful and interesting comments!! Ed |
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Post by fr8kar on Jun 14, 2022 19:16:57 GMT -8
From the point of view of big orange, the numberboard should be lit only on the locomotive the track warrant or general track bulletin is issued to. Ideally this should be the lead locomotive, but it doesn't have to be. It's a simple matter to brief with the dispatcher to get permission to change the ID of the locomotive on the track warrant, so the numberboard does not have to dictate the leader. This can come into play when you go one direction or from the terminal then change direction and come back. You would swap ends of the locomotive consist so you might leave the number lights on the locomotive that was previously the leader and keep the locomotive ID on the warrant. Or you could change it and brief with the dispatcher. I always change it because I can't remember anything.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 14, 2022 19:36:24 GMT -8
That seems to match what my 1980 CCOR said.
What are their thoughts on the numberboard at the other end of the lit unit? On or off?
Ed
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Post by goldenarm on Jun 16, 2022 17:22:19 GMT -8
Best bet it to check your favorite rulebook (lord knows there's enough of them for every railroad at every train show now it seems). For some reason, I assumed that info wasn't in the book. But your prompting got me to check to confirm my view. Wrong Edward, it's there. 1980 CCOR Rule 24 Thanks, guys, for your useful and interesting comments!! Ed you seriously aren't quoting a 42 year old rulebook, comparing it to what we run with today, are you? as was already stated, it depends on the specific railroad, and sometimes, even the specific division or terminal. most newer locos don't have rear number boards or class lights on them any more. flags? who uses flags on trains? the loco holding the track warrant should be lit if it has front and rear number boards, light them all. that unit doesn't have to be the leader either. it can be anywhere in the consist. if you're gonna quote a rulebook, quote one in use today, not one from almost half a century ago. 42 years of running trains here, not guessing what i'm saying, i'm telling you how it is. |
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Post by Baikal on Jun 16, 2022 17:41:43 GMT -8
For some reason, I assumed that info wasn't in the book. But your prompting got me to check to confirm my view. Wrong Edward, it's there. 1980 CCOR Rule 24 Thanks, guys, for your useful and interesting comments!! Ed you seriously aren't quoting a 42 year old rulebook, comparing it to what we run with today, are you?
Who is "we"? 1980 is about 8 years past the date where my interest drops off.
"if you're gonna quote a rulebook, quote one in use today, not one from almost half a century ago." Why? More people model the past than model the now.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 17, 2022 5:54:46 GMT -8
I am seriously quoting a 42 year old rulebook because it's the newest I have. And also because it was suggested that "I check my favorite rulebook". So I did. I also have 1967, 1959 and 1945 CCOR's.
No. I don't think it's still in effect. I KNOW it's not.
I am interested not only in 1980. I AM also interested in how it's done today. It's ALL interesting.
If someone knows things about 1945, I'm interested in that, too. For example, in 1945, headlights were NOT required to be on during the day.
If you've been operating on railroads for 42 years, I am happy to hear of your experience both currently and over those 42 years. And any changes you noticed over time.
Baikal. You might consider getting a 1967 CCOR, if you model in the Northwest. Or an appropriate one, if elsewhere. It would be the book with the current version of the rules in 1972.
Ed
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 27, 2022 0:28:20 GMT -8
A lot of the modern locomotives don't even have rear numberboards. It may still vary by road.
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