NCE Power Cab questions

[Deleted]

Hello all--

I have the NCE Power Cab System, which is rated at 2 amps.  I know there is a little voltage drop in my mainline, but yet the plain dc diesels run very well, and can easily be double-headed whenever desired.  (A DPDT toggle switch allows me to easily change from dc to dcc operation).

In dcc operation, the only engines that can be consistently double-headed are my son's pair of Genesis 2.0 Tsunami 2 SD90MAC-H's.  They double-head freely with no issues whatsoever.

I also have brand new Genesis Tsunami 2 SD45-2's, but these units cannot double-head.  After what appears to be a normal start, one unit will stop running and the other unit's wheels will be spinning.  I've cleaned the track at the offending joints (yes plural and multiple) with no improvement noted at all.

My friend and local train store owner says I probably do need a dcc booster, and he looked for me today, and nobody, not Walthers and not the distributors, has one in stock.

Is or are there settings for the Tsunami 2 decoders that I can try that will actually reduce the current draw--so that I can reliably double-head SD45-2 units--and so that I can get through to such a time as a dcc booster can be available and purchased?

Thank you--

John

[Deleted]

Note: Of course I checked ebay and there are currently no SB5 boosters available. All others require an SB5.

[ncrc5315]

I suppose you could try turning off the sound.

[cemr5396]

on your Powercab, turn on the display that tells you the real-time current draw. It explains in the manual how to do it, it is fairly simple. 

Run (or attempt to run) some consists, observe the results.

In my experience as a fellow Power Cab user I can run many more than 2 units at once. Mind you my layout is not very big, maybe that affects things. Still, it seems to me that your units should not be drawing more than an amp each, even with a heavy train.

Three units selected at random from my layout (one Intermountain, one Genesis, one Atlas) advance consisted to together only drew a single amp at full throttle with me holding them back with my hand.

[NS4122]

I've had extensive experience with the PowerCab too and it should definitely be able to handle more than 2 sound equipped locomotives. I have a large number of models equipped with Tsunami 2 decoders and they don't have a high current draw that would cause a problem. It sounds like one of your SD45-2s has some sort of issue.

[Deleted]

I did as Brad H. suggested, and the current draw with one SD45-2 on a train and sound and all lighting functions (beacon and headlight) ON can be as much as 0.50 amps on a 16 car freight train. With two SD45-2's, the current draw can be as much as 0.80 amps with the same train.

However, at certain points on the layout (and not always even at the same location) EITHER engine will just stop running, lights turn off, sound stops, while the other engine sits there and spins because it is still running. The current draw when that is happening was 0.80 amps.

If I turn off the sound, but even leave the light functions ON, then it looks like the engines can go and keep going, for multiple laps, with no issues occurring. The current draw for both engines without sound but with the 16 car train is less than 0.40 amps, typically 0.30 to 0.33 amps.

John

[Gino Damen]

You mentioned that you run DC and DCC.

Decoders can act strangely with the option to allow running on DC active. Try to disable that option. Now the decoder stops to figure out if there is DC or DCC on the track.

Another thing could be a firmware issue in the decoder. Problem with Tsunami is that's user can't update the firmware your self. Only the factory can do that.

[Deleted]

Gino--

The DPDT toogle switch has a center off position and as such will NOT allow dc and dcc signals to mix. I even go the extra step of making sure the MRC Tech 7 is turned OFF whenever I am using the NCE dcc system.  So there is no way the signals can possibly mix.

Additionally, other than perhaps a very brief test on plain dc to see what the engine does, I almost NEVER operate a dcc equipped engine in dcc mode. Certain manufacturers, including but not at all limited to Rapido, specifically ask that you do NOT operate dcc equipped engines in plain dc (even though they are theoretically "dual mode" decoders, some manufacturers prefer that you do not try to do that).

I also have Genesis SD45-2 units that are plain dc units; for me on my layout they actually operate better than the dcc equipped units which are supposedly from the very same product run. Multiple unit operation is as good or better in plain dc. I don't have engines fighting each other, while one dies and doesn't move, in plain dc.

Overall, I have to say I am just disappointed with dcc and consider it to have been much more trouble than it is worth.

YMMV.

John

[Gino Damen]

John,

If you don't run our DCC engines on DC just make it a habit to disable DC support in the decoder. That should put some gremlins on ice.

Another check with erratic behavior is the trucks. Depending on brand and model the power leads are connected with plastic clips on the trucks and the board. If one of these isn't seated properly a DCC decoder and especially the sound version will react erratic due to intermittent power. That is why I solder all those connections. Also a good moment to get rid of all that excess grease in the trucks.

Last (or better first) check is to be sure the decoder is seated properly. Just a small press is enough.

When DCC works it is nicer then DC, but the gremlins are harder to catch. But the more you hunt them the better you get in catching them :-)

[edwardsutorik]

John,

I will endorse what Gino said about disabling DC running (and everything else he said, too). If you want to do this, you need to change/check CV29. Here is a very good website to help with this:


www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm


The program will back-calculate, so you can enter your present CV29 value, and the program will tell you what options you've got assigned.


I, too, have a "switchable" DC/DCC layout. I NEVER EVER run my DCC locos on DC. That's reserved for my old stuff that ain't been converted yet. And all the locos I program have DC disabled.



Ed

[Deleted]

I've never been able to figure out how to get the NCE Powercab to read back individual CV settings. Never found it in the manual, and my buddy who is much more knowledgeable than me, doesn't know either.

Could one of you folks, if you know, share how I can read back the individual CV settings?  Otherwise might have to assume a value of 2 for CV29.

Thank you very much.

John

P.S.  Any individual SD45-2 in dcc operates just fine, reliably, lap after lap, especially now that accel/decel settings have been adjusted.  It is only when I mu them that I'm having issues.

[edwardsutorik]

I've got a Pro Cab. And it's very simple with that one. But. I think maybe a Powercab user should answer you on this.


Ed

[biggazza]

If one enters 'how to view and change CVs on NCE Power Cab' in a web browser there are many sites to choose from. Even the NCE website. Also Youtube videos.

The best / easiest option for programming is to install JMRI Decoder Pro (it's free) on a computer connected to the layout. Again, hundreds of sites to get info on this.

Gary

[Deleted]

Well I went through the manual again, and was unable to find it, so I'll look online. Sigh.

Obviously changing cv settings is easy, but getting it to read the current settings back certainly is not explained in the manual and maybe it should be.  I've looked for it specifically several times.

[edwardsutorik]

Yes, reading existing CV's should be in the manual, and it does not appear to be. Except perhaps for rechargeable flashlights, instruction books for electronic equipment are ALWAYS poorly done and/or incomplete.



It appears that the big difference between ProCab and PowerCab, in this case, is that the former can have a separate programming track hooked up all the time. And PowerCab can't.

The work-around is to either remove ALL other locomotives from the layout OR get yourself a short piece of track and connect it to your PowerCab AND disconnect the layout. You want to be assured of only interacting with the one loco.

Here's the NCE link that describes the rest of the process:


ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205053429-How-to-read-or-change-a-CV-Program-Track-Mode-Service-Mode-Method


A reminder: If you don't want to change the CV you just looked up via the above method, just press enter instead of inputting a new value and entering. For example, when I start programming a decoder, I always read the as-delivered ones, and write them down first. Just in case. Curiously, I occasionally get a loco with weird or goofy (unexpected) CV's.


Ed

[Deleted]

My layout is a very simple track plan designed to allow railfanning of my trains in open country, so there is an emphasis on mainline running of longer than what might be typical trains. Removing all locos not being programmed is no problem at all.

Thank you all for the suggestions; I am trying implement what I can when I can.

John

[Gino Damen]

John,

One other thing I can't place. That is the fact that you can only run two engines with your commandstation. I have several Tams B4 boosters with Loconet and display. Default that display shows the current the booster provides and I have almost never seen that go above 2A even with 10 engines running. The boosters are even set to trip at 2A.

Perhaps it is because of the decoders used. I (and a lot of my friends) use only ESU-decoders. Partly because it is very hard to buy Tsunami or TCS in the Netherlands and ESU is sold almost in every trainshop.

Gino

[cwgreg]

John,
Here is another thought on your issues. How robust is your track feeder connections? Did you run a buss network to feed your track at various points? If you do not have adequate voltage the DCC signal can be corrupted. We saw this phenomenon on our Digitrax layout until we improved our buss wiring. Locos would drop out of a consist or go into runaway mode when this happened. A RRampmeter (DCC Specialties)can read your track voltage at any given spot. Our problems occurred when track voltage dropped to about 10 volts on DCC.

Greg