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Post by atsfan on Aug 5, 2013 7:10:25 GMT -8
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Post by jlwii2000 on Aug 5, 2013 7:18:53 GMT -8
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Post by grahamline on Aug 5, 2013 11:13:12 GMT -8
Mr. Fugate was disappeared from MR forums about the time the first issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist appeared. Make a reference to an MRH article on the MR forum and see how quickly your post disappears. Class acts like Andy Sperandeo are no longer running that show.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 5, 2013 11:24:22 GMT -8
Mr. Fugate was disappeared from MR forums about the time the first issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist appeared. Make a reference to an MRH article on the MR forum and see how quickly your post disappears. Class acts like Andy Sperandeo are no longer running that show. Kalmbach reminds me of the kids who build sand castles at low tide. Blocking MRH is not going to stop the inevitable. MR needs to make itself more valuable, not shun the future.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 5, 2013 13:47:21 GMT -8
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Post by WP 257 on Aug 5, 2013 14:00:51 GMT -8
Nah--they are not slowly dying--they are already dead and buried but just don't realize it yet.
I can't remember the last time I ever used one of their "tips" on a project or on my layout.
Where prototypical modeling information is needed, it is best to find other sources.
Don't even get me started on the product reviews.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 5, 2013 14:36:55 GMT -8
Where prototypical modeling information is needed, it is best to find other sources. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is several forums where you can get that type of information if you can get by the high minded,nose in the air smugness that some groups displays.
The MR forum is more like a laid back model railroad club then anything.Nothing wrong with that approach for a forum.
I suspect MR will be around for years to come as a digital magazine or specialized issues and as video plus.
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Post by acelaphillies on Aug 5, 2013 16:48:08 GMT -8
I think MR should have added video plus for current subscribers. Instead of trying to get their dwindling numbers of subscribers to go for MORE, they should have added it as a way to set their subscription apart. I think it would have made people value their MR subscription more.
What if they just changed the entire layout of each issue? Maybe a section for each era? That way there would at least be something for everyone in each issue.
Whatever it is, they need to make BIG changes FAST. They are losing more and more subscribers every day. Maybe they need to make some changes in the staff.
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garr
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by garr on Aug 5, 2013 18:56:48 GMT -8
...Same with Newsweek (again). ... Boy, talk about life support, I have seen travel brochures thicker than Newsweek. Can't say that I am sorry to see that biased publication gasping. Jay
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Post by Brakie on Aug 6, 2013 0:59:55 GMT -8
Whatever it is, they need to make BIG changes FAST. They are losing more and more subscribers every day. Maybe they need to make some changes in the staff. -------------------------------------------------- First video plus is more like a video magazine whereas MR express is the subscriber only extra stuff.
I didn't want to go there but,MR has become a infomercial more then a modelers magazine and the articles push certain products..Had MR not pushed several ideas over the years I doubt we would used them..
As a example-and nothing more..DCC is one of those items they push with comments from the editor that read :I went on a layout tour in DC and DCC was everywhere-this was when DCC was first budding so how could DCC be "everywhere? Then came layouts featuring DCC along with several DCC articles.Oddly enough this started when the first DCC advertisements appeared.
I never understood why MR never push(endorse?) C70 track instead of C83..Maybe it was because their two biggest advertisers introduce C83? MR has never endorse fine scale modeling either.
I fully agree MR needs to rethink its business plan beyond Video Plus.
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Aug 6, 2013 1:27:28 GMT -8
Peddler, bring up fine scale modelling on the MR Forum and see what happens. They don't get it. I've never been a fan of the good enough rule, a model can always be better. MR has pushed the good enough concept for years and I really don't know why. Maybe it's because 90% of their readers are arm chair modellers, are very poor modellers, don't actually have a layout or are very new in the hobby. I think that is why most great modellers have left the forum and stopped buying the magazine. I know when I first started out I thought Blue Box kits built right out of the box were great until I saw my first Genesis and Kadee model. Now days the only Blue Box kit you see on my layout is one that has had heavy modifications done to it.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 6, 2013 2:41:43 GMT -8
I've never been a fan of the good enough rule, a model can always be better. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree to a certain point but,for me good enough is the better method.I found for me there's far less worrying and hand wringing over things that's not quite right.
And then here's a simple truth.
One of the many eye openers I got while being a brakeman is the word "perfection" is not in the railroad vocabulary.In short our models will never be a rendition of the prototype simply because we are too perfect and can not or maybe will not model all the dings,scrapes,chipped paint etc that is so common. Even our layouts are too clean and orderly and in some cases our scenery defies mother nature..
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Post by bncascadegreen on Aug 6, 2013 5:48:00 GMT -8
Speaking of a model can always be better,Athearn needs a clue-my opinion...foobbbing,no new freight cars in awhile,must be in some type of cooperation with MR. I also say that cause Athearn seems to miss the point on doing some models with ditch lights. How many of you guys think they will do SD40-2s,GP38-2S ETC. with ditch lights? They could have done for example GP15-1 in the BN with ditchlights...also folks do not feed me this tooling cost BS it gets old. I really think it will take other companies ( Exactrail ) to get better locomotives to market,I own alot of Overland brass and fear they may die off with the economy..and the prices too ( I was okay with 700-800 $ locos but this almost 1100 $ is just BS. .I know diffrent subjects but I want to point out that it seems that companies that have been around awhile are bringing the hobby down. I also know people have their opinions and their views on how they enjoy the hobby. I`am a quality guy,and want quility models at prices that are justifable. I started with a Bachmann train set at 5 years old 30 years later,5 layouts later,a short marriage with N Scale and all that in between aka: Athearn blue box kits to Genesis,and one brass loco for my high school graduation I was hooked-my point I seen the ups/downs of the hobby and hte lack of growth in certain areas. MR has definately gone to s***.
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Post by calzephyr on Aug 6, 2013 6:07:09 GMT -8
I also got the feeling there's a lot of kids over there too..I agree the quality of the posts has went down over the years as well..Many modelers has moved to better forums or maybe quit the hobby..We both seen those types. I suspect Fugate has got his hands full with publishing MRH. I read or heard that Joe Fugate started MRH because MR would not allow him to do what he wanted to do on line with MR. It is MR's loss for sure as Joe's articles and modeling techniques are excellent. I tend to think of the MR view of the hobby being a RTR type of mentality today. The Genesis models have made most of our detailed work obsolete and most of us just purchase and run the latest models. The product reviews in the MR are always good overall and do not point out any real mistakes since that would cause the advertisers of the product to go someplace else with their ad money. I recently subscribed to MR so I could donate them to the library. Kids in the local elementary school really enjoy it and that makes me happy that they might someday want to have model trains as their hobby. Larry
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Post by Brakie on Aug 6, 2013 6:31:06 GMT -8
How many of you guys think they will do SD40-2s,GP38-2S ETC. with ditch lights? They could have done for example GP15-1 in the BN with ditchlights... ------------------------------------------ Here's the kicker those BN GP15-1s was before the ditchlight era so,modelers modeling in the pre ditchlight era won't need 'em and why should they pay for a detail that must be removed? Same applies to UP,NS and CSX locomotives before the ditchlight era. See the problem?
Now then..There has to be a happy medium for all not just the few that wants and needs ditchlights.
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Post by calzephyr on Aug 6, 2013 7:53:34 GMT -8
How many of you guys think they will do SD40-2s,GP38-2S ETC. with ditch lights? They could have done for example GP15-1 in the BN with ditchlights... ------------------------------------------ Here's the kicker those BN GP15-1s was before the ditchlight era so,modelers modeling in the pre ditchlight era won't need 'em and why should they pay for a detail that must be removed? Same applies to UP,NS and CSX locomotives before the ditchlight era. See the problem? Now then..There has to be a happy medium for all not just the few that wants and needs ditchlights. The ditch lights era started about 1990 so any models of units built before that time could be with or without ditch lights depending on the time they represent. There are exceptions to that rule. The Union Pacific had ten SD40-2 locos with ditch lights in the 1980 era. Any interchange with Canada had to have ditch lights prior to 1990 era here in the states. It probably is better for companies to omit the ditch lights on early diesels and allow the operator to install them. After all, we need something to do. It is easy to update a loco with ditch lights but once the holes are drilled, it is hard to back date the model. Larry
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Post by nebrzephyr on Aug 6, 2013 12:46:14 GMT -8
Ditch lights......a couple years ago when Athearn released the SD40-2 in BNSF paint, it included ditch lights. Unfortunately, they were dummies. I guess Athearn must have figured by the times the SD40-2 was painted in full BNSF paint it must of had ditch lights.
Bob
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Post by atsfan on Aug 6, 2013 13:57:38 GMT -8
Page counts of every issue of MR are way down. Not just summer. And, the summer issue isn't cheaper.
Latest summer issue of Model Railroad News is same page count as always ..........
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Post by ambluco on Aug 6, 2013 15:20:17 GMT -8
March '67-78 pages April '72 - 80 May '80 - 156 Feb '94 - 194 July '03 - 132 Nov '09 - 110 July '13 - 86 So we are back to the 70s in magazine size. Page counts of every issue of MR are way down. Not just summer. And, the summer issue isn't cheaper. Latest summer issue of Model Railroad News is same page count as always ..........
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Post by atsfan on Aug 6, 2013 17:30:18 GMT -8
March '67-78 pages April '72 - 80 May '80 - 156 Feb '94 - 194 July '03 - 132 Nov '09 - 110 July '13 - 86 So we are back to the 70s in magazine size. Page counts of every issue of MR are way down. Not just summer. And, the summer issue isn't cheaper. Latest summer issue of Model Railroad News is same page count as always .......... Not a very positive sales slogan...........
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Aug 7, 2013 2:17:28 GMT -8
I also got the feeling there's a lot of kids over there too..I agree the quality of the posts has went down over the years as well..Many modelers has moved to better forums or maybe quit the hobby..We both seen those types. I suspect Fugate has got his hands full with publishing MRH. I read or heard that Joe Fugate started MRH because MR would not allow him to do what he wanted to do on line with MR. It is MR's loss for sure as Joe's articles and modeling techniques are excellent. I tend to think of the MR view of the hobby being a RTR type of mentality today. The Genesis models have made most of our detailed work obsolete and most of us just purchase and run the latest models. The product reviews in the MR are always good overall and do not point out any real mistakes since that would cause the advertisers of the product to go someplace else with their ad money. I recently subscribed to MR so I could donate them to the library. Kids in the local elementary school really enjoy it and that makes me happy that they might someday want to have model trains as their hobby. Larry I buy and donate a couple to a few schools, a old folks home and my doctors office to promote the hobby. I've got a number of people involved in the hobby because of it. Since Steve Otte banned me I really should stop doing that. But that's a whole nother story. All I can say is never phone Steve Otte.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 6:24:28 GMT -8
Since Steve Otte banned me I really should stop doing that. But that's a whole nother story. All I can say is never phone Steve Otte. Must have been one heck of a conversation! Magazines and forums are run by real people. Real people have likes and dislikes. Real people have people they like or get along with, while others rub them the wrong way whether intentionally or not. A true professional, will not let personal issues interfere with business decisions. In plain simple language, if someone has talent, even if you don't like them, for whatever reason, you still reach out to them in order to make your forum, magazine, product, etc. better. Maybe its because model railroading is a smaller hobby, but there are a lot of personality clashes that now play out on various forums. Twenty years ago, before the internet took off, our contact with other modelers was very localized and was limited to bumping into each other at the hobby shop, around the area or at meets. Now we can correspond with other modelers all over the world in a matter of seconds. The trouble is we are not face to face and a lot gets lost in the translation or the keyboard. In turn, feelings get hurt, words are exchanged and people go from online friend to adversary. As far as Model Railroader, I personally have posted on their forum a handful of times. I just don't frequent the place. As far as confrontations on forums, myself and others on this forum, including our host Donnell, have clashed with the owner of a certain model railroad forum and have been banned. For us its almost a badge of courage. If you haven't been banned, given a time out or scolded on a model railroading forum, you haven't lived! Nine times out of ten the head butting is the result of a personality clash. As far as writing articles for either MR or RMC, it takes a lot of work. I'll say at least 90% of the model railroaders lack the ability to either write or photograph an article. This is why you will see nearly a monthly article by people like Pele Soeberg(sp?), Mont Switzer, Thornton Waite and in the NMRA monthly mag, Bob Rivard. These people have the writing and photography skills to put their thoughts and images on paper. Done in a way that allows the guy next door to follow and understand. They are basically teachers in print. When it comes to layout articles, the author must become a tour guide of the layout. They must find the highlights and interesting parts and inform the reader, not just about the scene, but the how and why the builder created it. They can't get stuck on a particular area of the layout, they must get the reader to focus on the highlights. The photographer must be able to capture the scenes with photography that serves as if the reader were standing along side of them. This really does take skill and many just don't have the ability, time or equipment to pull it off.
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TA462
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Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Aug 7, 2013 7:03:34 GMT -8
Since Steve Otte banned me I really should stop doing that. But that's a whole nother story. All I can say is never phone Steve Otte. Must have been one heck of a conversation! As far as Model Railroader, I personally have posted on their forum a handful of times. I just don't frequent the place. As far as confrontations on forums, myself and others on this forum, including our host Donnell, have clashed with the owner of a certain model railroad forum and have been banned. For us its almost a badge of courage. If you haven't been banned, given a time out or scolded on a model railroading forum, you haven't lived! Nine times out of ten the head butting is the result of a personality clash. That was the first and only Forum I've ever been banned from. I don't think of it as a badge of courage, more like a badge of embarrassment. I was a member there for probably 10 years and I did have my fair share of confrontations, lol. I stopped that years ago though, it just wasn't worth my time anymore. I got some bad news about a family member a few days before I was banned and it really bothered me. Someone sent me a Private Message telling me basically to mind my own business and in one of the stupidest moves I've made in my life I told him to go, ........ you get the idea. He sent the message to Steve Otte I guess and I was banned for a month. It really bothered me and it seemed it was just another bad thing that was going on in my life. I phoned up Steve and told him if he doesn't unban me I was never going to buy another MR related article ever again. Honestly I think Steve was shocked that a dude from Canada would actually phone him, lol. Then Neil got involved and I was then banned for life. I apologized months later but they wouldn't let me back. Oh well, what can you do eh. I asked if I could tour their layout and offered to take them out for lunch when I was in town in July but they didn't even respond to my email. I found Steve's home address, went to his house and almost knocked on his door but then I thought that would really freak him out and didn't do it. I can see his face when I would say, DUDE, It's TA462 from Canada, lol. I'm sure the Cops and the SWAT team would have been called, lol. All over a Private Message............
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 7:33:32 GMT -8
Must have been one heck of a conversation! As far as Model Railroader, I personally have posted on their forum a handful of times. I just don't frequent the place. As far as confrontations on forums, myself and others on this forum, including our host Donnell, have clashed with the owner of a certain model railroad forum and have been banned. For us its almost a badge of courage. If you haven't been banned, given a time out or scolded on a model railroading forum, you haven't lived! Nine times out of ten the head butting is the result of a personality clash. That was the first and only Forum I've ever been banned from. I don't think of it as a badge of courage, more like a badge of embarrassment. I was a member there for probably 10 years and I did have my fair share of confrontations, lol. I stopped that years ago though, it just wasn't worth my time anymore. I got some bad news about a family member a few days before I was banned and it really bothered me. Someone sent me a Private Message telling me basically to mind my own business and in one of the stupidest moves I've made in my life I told him to go, ........ you get the idea. He sent the message to Steve Otte I guess and I was banned for a month. It really bothered me and it seemed it was just another bad thing that was going on in my life. I phoned up Steve and told him if he doesn't unban me I was never going to buy another MR related article ever again. Honestly I think Steve was shocked that a dude from Canada would actually phone him, lol. Then Neil got involved and I was then banned for life. I apologized months later but they wouldn't let me back. Oh well, what can you do eh. I asked if I could tour their layout and offered to take them out for lunch when I was in town in July but they didn't even respond to my email. I found Steve's home address, went to his house and almost knocked on his door but then I thought that would really freak him out and didn't do it. I can see his face when I would say, DUDE, It's TA462 from Canada, lol. I'm sure the Cops and the SWAT team would have been called, lol. All over a Private Message............ Your story about bad news and family is one that has effected many, myself included. Your emotions are raw and you are looking at a model train forum that in theory is supposed to be a fun thing and serve to get your mind off the family issues. Then someone, who maybe you disagree with on a more constant basis, writes something that in any other instance you'd let pass and there would be no harm no foul. But, you can't let it pass in this case because of the family thing. Then all heck breaks loose. I know exactly how you felt, for I've been there too. Lately, I try like heck to follow the advice of former NFL player and coach Herm Edwards when he says "Don't press send!". So I hit the preview button and read what I'm posting. This usually helps me to edit myself, but I still do post things that I wish or shouldn't have posted. Coach is right about once you've hit send, you can't get it back. Been there and done that.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 7, 2013 8:01:13 GMT -8
Speaking of e-mails I receive quite a few over the years calling me everything from a nut job to lair-well in so many words.
What bugged me the most was being told I wasn't a serious enough modeler for the Atlas forum and I should leave the forum post haste.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 10:30:03 GMT -8
What bugged me the most was being told I wasn't a serious enough modeler for the Atlas forum and I should leave the forum post haste. That's just wrong. We are all capable of using our words as weapons. Some I think take great satisfaction in tearing down other people. After a while it gets darn hard to turn the other cheek. But if you are able to hold your tongue, you're more of person than the one hurling the insults. NOBODY, likes everybody on an online forum. A forum is usually a very diverse in its make up of personalities. Some people you just block out, because to you just can't find much if any common ground. The key is to try to treat others like you would want them to treat you. Its real easy to forget that when you feel attacked by someone.
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Post by mlehman on Aug 7, 2013 12:28:53 GMT -8
SNIP What bugged me the most was being told I wasn't a serious enough modeler for the Atlas forum and I should leave the forum post haste. Larry, Not to defend the numerous mean-spirited people on the Atlas forum, but that was just one person's opinion. It wasn't the forum, as I doubt that would've been acceptable posted on the forum itself - at least I hope not. I tend to ignore data points like that.
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Post by crazyivan on Aug 7, 2013 13:01:28 GMT -8
SNIP What bugged me the most was being told I wasn't a serious enough modeler for the Atlas forum and I should leave the forum post haste. Larry, Not to defend the numerous mean-spirited people on the Atlas forum, but that was just one person's opinion. It wasn't the forum, as I doubt that would've been acceptable posted on the forum itself - at least I hope not. I tend to ignore data points like that. That's really the best way to handle this kind of thing. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who for whatever insane reason feel the need to tell others that they are enjoying something the wrong way. I've seen it my whole life in the sci-fi world (the Gallifrey Base forums are notorious for this and have justly earned a segment of Doctor Who fandom a horrible reputation). Its taken time and maturity, but I ignore people like that, and usually just avoid forums where that sort of behavior is considered acceptable. Life is too short to put up with self appointed guardians of something you love.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 7, 2013 16:22:44 GMT -8
Guys,I forgot to add my answer..
Think so? How about that..
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Aug 7, 2013 17:37:52 GMT -8
excuse lower case, can't blame bramble some sort of scum killed him when out shooting rabbits am still weeping at his loss. my lower case this time...I fell from sitting in an unbalanced plastic garden chair and have two bone fractures in my left wrist....please just read slowly so I can keep up with you with my tryping. never been on facebook or the other e thingies so cannot comment. I have only ever resigned from a group because I disagreed with the wording of the introduction of an article. it was the nmra and a comparison of john 1 ...in the beginning...offended me but that is past history now. usually the American magazines deals only apply to American citizens--but not all--I like this and the old atlas forum which I can still draw up as members kindly point out where I can find information. maybe had a lifetime working on british railways but have a lot to learn about American practices.my engines have a shed -depot-to get serviced in..the passenger trains have a starting point and will evevtually have a through station to call at and a terminus to end up at even though it may be the original starting point. freight trains will eventually have sort of dioramas to look as though they have come from or going to and I am doing my plausible best to stay in time era. I succeeded in getting a modellers licence so I can run rolling stock which in my iggerance I had bought when I didn't know any better. will the old fool ever get any better ? my latest magazine purchase was classic trains. I now have the definition of tram..street car and interurban clear in my mind. will have to try these facebook type things .jim brodie happy modelling be it steam-modern image or what takes your fancy and happy trails. what does lol mean please? 02-36hrs 08-08-13.
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