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Post by atsfan on Sept 28, 2013 12:40:42 GMT -8
Trains mag has slowly increased it's subscription base. They put out a good edition each month with new material and even a few thought provoking articles.
I just picked up the last 15 MR editions for $1.00 at a show. They are worth the dollar.
So far in 3 issues I found one tip on using colored tile grout and sand as ballast that was useful. The rest was the usual pablum and dumbed down "keep your aisles clear" stuff.
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Post by markfj on Sept 29, 2013 12:25:57 GMT -8
Chris, like you said, that must have been a special offer because I just renewed MR for one year at $40.80. Plus I added a copy of Locomotive 2013 for another $8.95.
For a long time, I’ve been debating about letting my subscription run out, but keep renewing. I share many of the opinions already expressed by other members regarding MR content (watered down articles, the holiday “train set” issue, repetition of topics, etc.). Overall, the magazine is lacking and I find myself not always completely reading each issue I receive. However, I will say that Pelle Soeborg is one of the magazines best contributors and his modeling work and articles are usually very good. Pelle’s photography is excellent without a doubt! Still, it’s the repetition of topics that it starting to wear on me.
Over the past several days, I’ve been scanning into my computer articles that I’ve saved since about 2007. I’m one of those guys that rips or cuts out articles rather than save the whole magazine. To illustrate MR's tendency to repeat topics; so far I’ve scanned in over 14 articles on making trees. That translates roughly into two articles a year on making trees since 2007. Other topics like “how an airbrush work” or “how to install a DCC decoder” are repeated almost as frequently. Granted, technology does change, so I can see a need for updates on things like DCC. But, honest, how much advancements have been done in making trees to warrant such coverage of the topic? Maybe I’m just being picky.
Why can’t they bring back features like “Model of the Month” or throw in some more scale drawings? Both would be more interesting and useful than another article on trees.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 18:44:40 GMT -8
I give Model RR magazine a decade and they'll be gone. They have too much overhead, their advertising fees are too much for manufacturers and their content sucks. I was at a friends house today and looked at the newest issue, what a load of boredom and trash. Also, what is with their recent love affair with Pelle Soeberg? He is a great modeler, and has great work. But there are tons of modelers just like him. There was a string of several months where he was mentioned and now he's a contributing editor. I hope they die off sooner than later. I really do. If train companies were smart, they would cut out the ads that they pay a small fortune for and move to other means of advertising online. I heard they wanted some ridiculous fee for a half page ad. I think it was $3000 for one month of a half page ad. Train companies that pay that are blowing their money into the wind. Everything is trending to be 100% online, the companies need to move that way QUICKLY for a fraction of the cost. This upcoming generation wants videos showing them how versus reading how to do things. They are very visual and very short tempered and have short attention spans. Everyone will migrate to an online presence and model railroader magazine will be closing it's doors very soon. I know they have an online presence but those prices are ridiculous too. They may survive in some small capacity, but not the one they are in now.
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Post by gasmith on Sept 29, 2013 19:36:27 GMT -8
I give Model RR magazine a decade and they'll be gone. They have too much overhead, their advertising fees are too much for manufacturers and their content sucks. I was at a friends house today and looked at the newest issue, what a load of boredom and trash. Also, what is with their recent love affair with Pelle Soeberg? He is a great modeler, and has great work. But there are tons of modelers just like him. There was a string of several months where he was mentioned and now he's a contributing editor. I hope they die off sooner than later. I really do. If train companies were smart, they would cut out the ads that they pay a small fortune for and move to other means of advertising online. I heard they wanted some ridiculous fee for a half page ad. I think it was $3000 for one month of a half page ad. Train companies that pay that are blowing their money into the wind. Everything is trending to be 100% online, the companies need to move that way QUICKLY for a fraction of the cost. This upcoming generation wants videos showing them how versus reading how to do things. They are very visual and very short tempered and have short attention spans. Everyone will migrate to an online presence and model railroader magazine will be closing it's doors very soon. I know they have an online presence but those prices are ridiculous too. They may survive in some small capacity, but not the one they are in now. It's inevitable. The magazine is basically a come-on for the website anyway. I was recently talking with a hobby shop owner who told me 1/6 page is $800/month. |
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Post by Brakie on Sept 30, 2013 5:15:00 GMT -8
I give Model RR magazine a decade and they'll be gone. They have too much overhead, their advertising fees are too much for manufacturers and their content sucks.
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MR will be here beyond that and then some..
The paper issue may be gone but,the digital copy will be going strong.That's their ace card after all MR is already digital.
Its a manner of time before its 100% digital.
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Post by atsfan on Sept 30, 2013 7:02:00 GMT -8
I give Model RR magazine a decade and they'll be gone. They have too much overhead, their advertising fees are too much for manufacturers and their content sucks. I was at a friends house today and looked at the newest issue, what a load of boredom and trash. Also, what is with their recent love affair with Pelle Soeberg? He is a great modeler, and has great work. But there are tons of modelers just like him. There was a string of several months where he was mentioned and now he's a contributing editor. I hope they die off sooner than later. I really do. If train companies were smart, they would cut out the ads that they pay a small fortune for and move to other means of advertising online. I heard they wanted some ridiculous fee for a half page ad. I think it was $3000 for one month of a half page ad. Train companies that pay that are blowing their money into the wind. Everything is trending to be 100% online, the companies need to move that way QUICKLY for a fraction of the cost. This upcoming generation wants videos showing them how versus reading how to do things. They are very visual and very short tempered and have short attention spans. Everyone will migrate to an online presence and model railroader magazine will be closing it's doors very soon. I know they have an online presence but those prices are ridiculous too. They may survive in some small capacity, but not the one they are in now. The attraction to Pelle is not recent but dates back years. I have both of his books which are excellent. What bugs me is the huge prices needed to pay for ads in the mags that come out after the engines are sold out  ?? |
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Post by Brakie on Sept 30, 2013 7:42:24 GMT -8
What bugs me is the huge prices needed to pay for ads in the mags that come out after the engines are sold out ?? ------------------------------- By checking some of the leading on line shops there seems to be some recent releases in stock including lots of Genesis units. So,I'm not sure if the ads are worthless? |
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Post by mlehman on Sept 30, 2013 9:21:13 GMT -8
I know there are plenty of folks online who fancy themselves "serious modelers." Me? I'm as serious as I want to be, when I want. Many things I'm picky about. After all, I am in narrowgauge, so tend to be "narrowminded" in that way. But some of the best fun and modeling I've done is completely fantastic, even if it runs on 3' gauge rails, like my luxury cruise train, the San Juan Zephyr.   I would put pics up of the observation/tavern car that brings up the rear, but it's adults only  PM me if you want to peek, err, look at it.  Most annoying are those folks that want to cite chapter and verse about something, when it's clear the person building something has already considered the compromises that need be made to bring that model to life. I know some people take "serious modeling" to be "no compromise modeling." I don't know which hobby they're actually in, because the art and craft of model railroading requires constant compromise for those of us who don't have unlimited money and time budgets. They're only kidding themselves when they make claims their modeling never involves compromise. Now to drift this back towards the topic, MR has to serve everyone in the model railroading community. Obviously, there will be compromises. If MM got you hot, well MR will disappoint every month unless you accept the fact the two magazines cater(ed) to different audiences, one broad and diverse, the other with a laser-like focus on prototype modeling. I wouldn't doom and gloom MR unless it's not here in any form in 10 years. The entire magazine publishing industry is struggling with the twin challenges of the instant availability of the internet and the fact that many folks expect everything there to be free. As a very involved partisan in the effort to preserve net neutrality and open access, I have plenty of demonstrated sympathy for that view (but don't want to drag politics into this beyond establishing I didn't just get out of bed this morning on these issues, as it's both largely irrelevant to model railroading publishing and against the rules here.) But I'm also realistic that paid content has a place there. However, even the newspaper and magazine industries really don't know the outcome. From what I've seen, MR is putting out the effort to make this transition, although there are lots of rough spots and the outcome, like with the rest of the industry, is uncertain. As always, the best way to see change is to provide MR with feedback on what is good and bad, as well as to consider contributing yourself, as Jim suggested. |
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Post by atsfan on Sept 30, 2013 11:31:10 GMT -8
What bugs me is the huge prices needed to pay for ads in the mags that come out after the engines are sold out ?? ------------------------------- By checking some of the leading on line shops there seems to be some recent releases in stock including lots of Genesis units. So,I'm not sure if the ads are worthless? I didnt say worthless. Yes Atlas items are available since they dont sell well, but Athearn non sound GEVOs, GP 50's, Rock Island GP38-2's. At anything less than MSRP. Put another way, how many engines need to be sold simply to pay for the avertising? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2013 13:56:16 GMT -8
What bugs me is the huge prices needed to pay for ads in the mags that come out after the engines are sold out ?? ------------------------------- By checking some of the leading on line shops there seems to be some recent releases in stock including lots of Genesis units. So,I'm not sure if the ads are worthless? I didnt say worthless. Yes Atlas items are available since they dont sell well, but Athearn non sound GEVOs, GP 50's, Rock Island GP38-2's. At anything less than MSRP. Put another way, how many engines need to be sold simply to pay for the avertising? Well let's just say for the sake of argument that Athearn runs a full page ad at a bargain price of $2000 a month. They have to sell 35 sound equipped GEVO locomotives to dealers to pay for that. I am ballparking what Athearn makes per loco at 20% of the overall MSRP. To me when you think of it like that, it's not too bad since they probably have tons of locos out there. But when you consider the cash, the actual CASH it's a ripoff. They're forking out $24,000 a year just in advertising for MRR. That could pay some lower wage staffer, that could do a lot of things. I really don't think people that model the latest and greatest GEVOs or SD70ACes are getting their announcements, model news, or advertising through model railroader magazine. The other thing that is a problem is there is no measure of how well the advertising actually does. So companies such as Athearn just have to guess that it's helping to sell locomotives. Well with $24,000 a year, which I'm positive is a conservative estimate...the guess is more of a gamble. I talk to a lot of modern modelers as it's part of my job to keep an ear to the ground on the hobby and I have never heard anyone say "Did you see Athearn's new announcement in Model Railroader?" It's always been Facebook or Youtube or a friend has told them. Facebook and youtube are the future and maybe Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine. But I don't even hear much about MRH Magazine so I think the future is mostly facebook and youtube. Companies should get facebook pages and youtube videos and go that route if they want to spread the word on anything 1980+ if you ask me. The company I work for which is a model company (I cannot disclose specifics) has already advertised through youtube and facebook. We actually get people who call in and say "Hey I saw your announcement on facebook" or "Hey I saw a youtube video about your product." We NEVER got that when we advertised with Model Railroader magazine. We stopped doing so a few years back. So it's the future people. As for model railroader, it won't completely disappear that was my mistake in writing. They will go to an online presence. But I am still not paying their stupid prices to see videos showing me techniques I can find on youtube for free. Moreover, I think a lot of companies don't mind the advertising fees because it can be written off with the taxes. Or most of it can be written off. But advertising is supposed to be effective. So take that money, or a portion of it and direct it the youtube and facebook direction. It costs a fraction of what model railroader costs. |
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Post by mlehman on Sept 30, 2013 14:44:13 GMT -8
SNIP The other thing that is a problem is there is no measure of how well the advertising actually does. So companies such as Athearn just have to guess that it's helping to sell locomotives. Well with $24,000 a year, which I'm positive is a conservative estimate...the guess is more of a gamble. I talk to a lot of modern modelers as it's part of my job to keep an ear to the ground on the hobby and I have never heard anyone say "Did you see Athearn's new announcement in Model Railroader?" It's always been Facebook or Youtube or a friend has told them. Facebook and youtube are the future and maybe Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine. But I don't even hear much about MRH Magazine so I think the future is mostly facebook and youtube. Companies should get facebook pages and youtube videos and go that route if they want to spread the word on anything 1980+ if you ask me. The company I work for which is a model company (I cannot disclose specifics) has already advertised through youtube and facebook. We actually get people who call in and say "Hey I saw your announcement on facebook" or "Hey I saw a youtube video about your product." We NEVER got that when we advertised with Model Railroader magazine. We stopped doing so a few years back. So it's the future people. SNIP...But advertising is supposed to be effective. So take that money, or a portion of it and direct it the youtube and facebook direction. It costs a fraction of what model railroader costs. Mark, I can't much disagree with the overall thrust of your comments, but some of the details are likely murkier than they might at first appear to be. What gets advertising and marketing people excited about the new media is that there is feedback on the number of specific views an ad gets. With print and other old media, they could tell you how many potential viewers there were, but that was based almost solely on circulation numbers, so it seems like a much less firm number than page views or clicks are. But there is still not much of a way to tell how much of the deluge of ads we see everyday results in a buy decision unless someone clicks straight through from an ad to actually load up a cart and checkout online. That's only a limited improvement over old media. So all these newly minted marketing folks get excited about new media, but it's a far more incremental change in terms of translating into sales than the e-ad-sales folks would like you to think. Also consider that when you hear people referencing new media, it's because that's the network you seem to be hooked into. Considering the average age of most model rails, I just don't see a majority of folks sharing the latest and greatest via tweets or likes, more like email, which is ancient history for most marketers these days I understand. Give it a few years and this will change, but I think it's important to remember not to get too far ahead of the curve. One thing about ad economics that's important to point out is Athearn usually doesn't advertise the same loco all year long. They vary, so the ad costs are spread over a much wider revenue base than you calculated. Instead of $24k in costs to a single loco, it's more like $2k for a month (just a hypothetical figure by the way) unless they repeat it. So the numbers may look a little breathtaking to us mortals, but I'd still bet the average suit figures that's a better investment than hiring another clerk with that money. |
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Post by atsfan on Sept 30, 2013 16:02:49 GMT -8
SNIP The other thing that is a problem is there is no measure of how well the advertising actually does. So companies such as Athearn just have to guess that it's helping to sell locomotives. Well with $24,000 a year, which I'm positive is a conservative estimate...the guess is more of a gamble. I talk to a lot of modern modelers as it's part of my job to keep an ear to the ground on the hobby and I have never heard anyone say "Did you see Athearn's new announcement in Model Railroader?" It's always been Facebook or Youtube or a friend has told them. Facebook and youtube are the future and maybe Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine. But I don't even hear much about MRH Magazine so I think the future is mostly facebook and youtube. Companies should get facebook pages and youtube videos and go that route if they want to spread the word on anything 1980+ if you ask me. The company I work for which is a model company (I cannot disclose specifics) has already advertised through youtube and facebook. We actually get people who call in and say "Hey I saw your announcement on facebook" or "Hey I saw a youtube video about your product." We NEVER got that when we advertised with Model Railroader magazine. We stopped doing so a few years back. So it's the future people. SNIP...But advertising is supposed to be effective. So take that money, or a portion of it and direct it the youtube and facebook direction. It costs a fraction of what model railroader costs. Mark, I can't much disagree with the overall thrust of your comments, but some of the details are likely murkier than they might at first appear to be. What gets advertising and marketing people excited about the new media is that there is feedback on the number of specific views an ad gets. With print and other old media, they could tell you how many potential viewers there were, but that was based almost solely on circulation numbers, so it seems like a much less firm number than page views or clicks are. But there is still not much of a way to tell how much of the deluge of ads we see everyday results in a buy decision unless someone clicks straight through from an ad to actually load up a cart and checkout online. That's only a limited improvement over old media. So all these newly minted marketing folks get excited about new media, but it's a far more incremental change in terms of translating into sales than the e-ad-sales folks would like you to think. Also consider that when you hear people referencing new media, it's because that's the network you seem to be hooked into. Considering the average age of most model rails, I just don't see a majority of folks sharing the latest and greatest via tweets or likes, more like email, which is ancient history for most marketers these days I understand. Give it a few years and this will change, but I think it's important to remember not to get too far ahead of the curve. One thing about ad economics that's important to point out is Athearn usually doesn't advertise the same loco all year long. They vary, so the ad costs are spread over a much wider revenue base than you calculated. Instead of $24k in costs to a single loco, it's more like $2k for a month (just a hypothetical figure by the way) unless they repeat it. So the numbers may look a little breathtaking to us mortals, but I'd still bet the average suit figures that's a better investment than hiring another clerk with that money. A full page ad in MR costs far more than $2000 per month. |
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Post by atsfan on Sept 30, 2013 16:05:34 GMT -8
I didnt say worthless. Yes Atlas items are available since they dont sell well, but Athearn non sound GEVOs, GP 50's, Rock Island GP38-2's. At anything less than MSRP. Put another way, how many engines need to be sold simply to pay for the avertising? Well let's just say for the sake of argument that Athearn runs a full page ad at a bargain price of $2000 a month. They have to sell 35 sound equipped GEVO locomotives to dealers to pay for that. I am ballparking what Athearn makes per loco at 20% of the overall MSRP. To me when you think of it like that, it's not too bad since they probably have tons of locos out there. But when you consider the cash, the actual CASH it's a ripoff. They're forking out $24,000 a year just in advertising for MRR. That could pay some lower wage staffer, that could do a lot of things. I really don't think people that model the latest and greatest GEVOs or SD70ACes are getting their announcements, model news, or advertising through model railroader magazine. The other thing that is a problem is there is no measure of how well the advertising actually does. So companies such as Athearn just have to guess that it's helping to sell locomotives. Well with $24,000 a year, which I'm positive is a conservative estimate...the guess is more of a gamble. I talk to a lot of modern modelers as it's part of my job to keep an ear to the ground on the hobby and I have never heard anyone say "Did you see Athearn's new announcement in Model Railroader?" It's always been Facebook or Youtube or a friend has told them. Facebook and youtube are the future and maybe Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine. But I don't even hear much about MRH Magazine so I think the future is mostly facebook and youtube. Companies should get facebook pages and youtube videos and go that route if they want to spread the word on anything 1980+ if you ask me. The company I work for which is a model company (I cannot disclose specifics) has already advertised through youtube and facebook. We actually get people who call in and say "Hey I saw your announcement on facebook" or "Hey I saw a youtube video about your product." We NEVER got that when we advertised with Model Railroader magazine. We stopped doing so a few years back. So it's the future people. As for model railroader, it won't completely disappear that was my mistake in writing. They will go to an online presence. But I am still not paying their stupid prices to see videos showing me techniques I can find on youtube for free. Moreover, I think a lot of companies don't mind the advertising fees because it can be written off with the taxes. Or most of it can be written off. But advertising is supposed to be effective. So take that money, or a portion of it and direct it the youtube and facebook direction. It costs a fraction of what model railroader costs. If it was only $2000 per month I wouldnt be raising the point. A full page ad in MR costs much, much more than that. How much also did MR pay for the thousands of free huge catalogs they handed out ? It adds a ton to the MSRP. |
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Post by Brakie on Oct 1, 2013 4:09:30 GMT -8
As for model railroader, it won't completely disappear that was my mistake in writing. They will go to an online presence. But I am still not paying their stupid prices to see videos showing me techniques I can find on youtube for free.
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While I fully agree with that there are those among us that claim those tutorial videos on youtube are done by "amateurs" and should be avoid then they suggest buying a Kalmbach book by so and so..
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So take that money, or a portion of it and direct it the youtube and facebook direction.
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Several manufacturers already have a presence on both medias and I suspect a lot more will join that method of interacting with their customer base-its a win-win for all.
There is no doubt today's instant medias has change things forever-including MR and RMC.
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