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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2014 10:55:15 GMT -8
I've been entertaining myself lately by installing cheap LED lighting to upgrade my passenger fleet. atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/2132/cheap-updating-tomar-drumheads-lightingNow I'm down to things like my Walthers troop train cars -- maybe. I was planning on installing lighting just in my two troop kitchen cars for now, as if the cooks and KPs are up fixing breakfast before reveille or washing dishes and pans after lights out in the sleepers. Problem is...how do you get into these handsome little passenger cars? The exploded parts view seems to indicate construction much like Walthers' more standard passenger stock. There's a frame and wall assembly like a box, them the sides and under frame attach to it, partly by tabs but this is all glued, also. The roof looks like it should snap on, similar to the standard passenger cars, but these seem to be glued down. With the boxy frame, I don't think the usual twist and pop method will work here anyway. Anyone have any experience or insights? I really like these cars, but it will just have to be lights out for the GIs when they run after dark unless I can figure this out. This will definitely give them something other than KP to carp about...  |
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Post by John Sheridan on Feb 5, 2014 11:11:45 GMT -8
I've been entertaining myself lately by installing cheap LED lighting to upgrade my passenger fleet. atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/2132/cheap-updating-tomar-drumheads-lightingNow I'm down to things like my Walthers troop train cars -- maybe. I was planning on installing lighting just in my two troop kitchen cars for now, as if the cooks and KPs are up fixing breakfast before reveille or washing dishes and pans after lights out in the sleepers. Problem is...how do you get into these handsome little passenger cars? The exploded parts view seems to indicate construction much like Walthers' more standard passenger stock. There's a frame and wall assembly like a box, them the sides and under frame attach to it, partly by tabs but this is all glued, also. The roof looks like it should snap on, similar to the standard passenger cars, but these seem to be glued down. With the boxy frame, I don't think the usual twist and pop method will work here anyway. Anyone have any experience or insights? I really like these cars, but it will just have to be lights out for the GIs when they run after dark unless I can figure this out. This will definitely give them something other than KP to carp about... I learned a while back the sooper seckrit way to open any Walthers passenger car: Grab each end of the car. Twist slightly back n' forth until the roof pops. Done. Maybe this will work. Either that or look at the instructions to figure out where the tabs are hiding. Switch to explosives to open. |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2014 11:24:36 GMT -8
John,a
I may give the twist and pop method a try, but it did not look promising. The car shell is boxy and much shorter ion length than the cars this methods usually works easily with. The diagram shows where the tabs are located, it's just the the roof doesn't seem to want to give like it does when you do this with the usual Walthers passenger car.
BATF frowns on explosives. The cars are too nice for the BFH method. Anyone else?
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Post by drolsen on Feb 5, 2014 13:03:04 GMT -8
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if the troop cars were glued together and can't be opened easily (i.e. without damaging them). When Walthers introduced their Superliners, the first run or two had the windows glued in, even though it wasn't necessary to hold the car together. I went back and forth with them a number of times about the undecorated cars, which were obviously difficult to disassemble for painting. The troop cars were released way back then too, I think, so it's quite possible they were glued together incorrectly also.
What I'm getting at is that the way that they are supposed to come apart may not work because of the glue. When I pried apart one of the glued, undecorated Superliners, the window inserts suffered significant damage, and Walthers had to send me replacement windows (back when they stocked spare parts).
Dave
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Post by Spikre on Feb 5, 2014 13:08:37 GMT -8
 Mike, was thinking maybe the Undecs werent Glued,but after reading the previous post,maybe that isnt so. You could look for the Cannonball Kits,they definately arnt Glued. Good Luck !! Spikre 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 13:15:41 GMT -8
VERY big hammer?  |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2014 13:19:58 GMT -8
SNIP The troop cars were released way back then too, I think, so it's quite possible they were glued together incorrectly also. What I'm getting at is that the way that they are supposed to come apart may not work because of the glue. When I pried apart one of the glued, undecorated Superliners, the window inserts suffered significant damage, and Walthers had to send me replacement windows (back when they stocked spare parts). Dave Dave, That's exactly what I was thinking here based on the way they acted when I picked at 'em like a safecracker. For whatever reason, they glued these things together. They should've left at least the roof loose  I think discretion is the better part of valor. Whenever the train is traversing my line, the orders are "lights out!" Spikre, Appreciate the tip on the kits. I was actually thinking of those cars when Walthers came out with their RTR verrsions. Or was this one of those things that Cannonball, et al announce they'll be doing -- but they don't say which decade that'll be? The Dept. of Defense budget here is pretty much tapped out. Plus, those troops are soft these days. They all want to ride in Pullmans, real Pullmans not shoebox "Pullmans," like they're officers or something... |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2014 13:24:01 GMT -8
VERY big hammer? That is one way to make a kit out of it...  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 13:27:15 GMT -8
VERY big hammer? That is one way to make a kit out of it... Isn't it amazing.....when you want the choo choo to stay together....it comes apart. When you want it to come apart.....it will not come apart without that very large hammer! Model Railroading is fun! Must be why there is old Tennessee No.7.....  |
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Post by Spikre on Feb 5, 2014 13:29:20 GMT -8
Mike, they were one of those Decades long projects,but have actually seen some kits rite before the Walthers came out. now the problem is,,,cant recall which version actually was made by Cannonball. they also came in a large flat box so that minimal Sprue cutting was needed to box them, but forget about storing them in that box. Spikre 
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Post by stevewagner on Feb 5, 2014 13:59:10 GMT -8
You might try looking up the reviews of these cars published when they were new. I'm almost certain that some recent reviews in Model Railroader have indicated the way to take them apart. Another possibility would be articles on building passenger cars using the sides available from several sources, for instance by the man from Washington, DC or thereabouts who built a model railroad using B&M, CP and MEC locos in the upper valley of the Connecticut River and more recently has been working on a 1950's layout set in Baltimore. His name is escaping me at the moment -- it's Paul Dolkos.
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Post by TBird1958 on Feb 5, 2014 14:26:59 GMT -8
I actually forgot how I took mine apart Mike! Knowing my skills, I probably used a crowbar |
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Post by trebor on Feb 5, 2014 15:57:07 GMT -8
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2014 18:25:40 GMT -8
You might try looking up the reviews of these cars published when they were new. I'm almost certain that some recent reviews in Model Railroader have indicated the way to take them apart. SNIP Steve, Good tip. Used the MR Review Index where they were reviewed in the Nov 2004 MR, IIRC. Looks like MR received both RTR and a kit to review. They say it "snaps together" but I suspect they looked at the kit, instead of trying to disassemble the RTR samples. The picture of the kit shows what is the built-up shell with the roof off, along with all the other parts. I'd almost bet the shell comes assembled to that point and it actually wasn't MR that built it up. Could be wrong about that, but that was my impression. I tend to agree with trebor that destruction shouldn't be needed before construction with a kit. However, there are items where factory assembly of one or more critical areas is a good idea and I have no issue in cases like that. So now I have to think about how much force I apply in trying to put the twist on the roof of one of these just to see if it's really glued or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 5:44:00 GMT -8
Ok, I have taken several of these apart.....I had to refresh myself on how I did it.
Take a sharp, small screwdriver and go up under the ends beside the couplers and pop the ends off. Then, reach in with the small screwdriver and pop the roof tabs and it will come apart like any other Walthers car.
I have disassembled several HUNDRED Walthers cars...(I am in the You Tube videos on the twist method) and I knew I had done several of the troop cars a few years ago.
BTW, even though I have popularized the "twist" method.....I did not invent it. I was showed this by an unknown fellow that was at Des Plaines Hobby back when the very first Walthers cars were released back in (IIRC) 2002.
Keith Turley
Monrovia, California
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2014 7:08:57 GMT -8
Ok, I have taken several of these apart.....I had to refresh myself on how I did it. Take a sharp, small screwdriver and go up under the ends beside the couplers and pop the ends off. Then, reach in with the small screwdriver and pop the roof tabs and it will come apart like any other Walthers car. SNIP Keith, Thanks, will give that a try. I could just see prying around the roof would result in highly visible damage unless I was very lucky...I'm not being careful would've helped. |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2014 7:17:32 GMT -8
Eureka! Keith's method works  Pry the end off GENTLY as described. The first two tabs are just inside. I did break the first one, even being careful. That relieved the tightness of the roof. I had to reach into the second set of tabs on one side to get it to release, then things got easier. There does NOT appear to be any glue present, except where handrails needed anchoring, which probably avoids a lot of problems in assembly. But this car is TIGHT even without glue. Thanks again, Keith! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 7:55:35 GMT -8
Great!
When I was a child, I would tear apart my Tonka trucks and modify them or repaint them. It would P.O. my folks something fierce. I think they would be amazed that I have earned money tearing up models! LOL
Keith Turley
Monrovia, California
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2014 20:16:07 GMT -8
With Kevin's much appreciated help, I cracked the code to get into my troop kitchen cars. Here's the lighting install... You need wipers to pickup power. I make mine from PC tie material and Tichy 0.010" phosphor bronze wire. Drill a hole through the PC, then stick the end of a pretinned wire through, bend over, slip the wire between the tinned wire and the PC and solder. I then cut the wiper pad to size after leaving it attached to the length of PC tie for easy handling.  I drill a hole through the bolster on each side. If you get it right, very little adjustment is needed. Just make another if you mangle on. I put a drop of CA on the bolster, then pull the pad tight by the wire lead.   I drilled holes through the floor of the car near each truck. They wires come up inside the car. Here, I just used the space next to the end door to snuggle the bridge rectifier and the capacitor into. You can see the end off as Kevin described, then I popped the roof off. Didn't break any tabs on the second roof, so my aim is improving   After everything was together, I tested before snapping the roof back on...  Looks like Cookie and his KP crew are already working on breakfast.   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 21:19:48 GMT -8
Looks very nice.
Normally you don't see a lot of attention paid to troop sleepers and diners. Now that WWII is over 70 years ago.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2014 22:31:54 GMT -8
Looks very nice. Normally you don't see a lot of attention paid to troop sleepers and diners. Now that WWII is over 70 years ago. Jim, Thanks. Yeah, these actually pretty much went away from hauling troops in Uncle Sam's great post-WWII yard sale. I've just always had a fascination with them and was thrilled when Walthers announced them. I've got six sleepers, two kitchens, and a couple of Walthers Pullmans in green for the officers. For motive power, I've got an ABBA lashup of Stewart FTs. It's really a bit archaic for my rough 56-76 timeline, but I just like to run them. Having a MAIN train on tap makes a great extra. |
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Post by gmpullman on Feb 15, 2014 3:04:20 GMT -8
Just an interesting footnote on the troop sleepers that were sold off to railroads to be repurposed. I just happened to see an article in the Autumn 1998 PRRTHS Keystone by Ian S. Fischer that states the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (formerly the Defense Plant Corporation, the cars' owner) was selling the cars off in 1947 for $3200. each. The Allied Full Cushion trucks would have to be replaced because of spring plank wear problems at a cost of $2150. per car then add the cost of $1800. to convert the cars for head end use (plating over the windows, removing fixtures, replacing side doors)
On the other hand, the Pennsy could build a new 50' 6" single door express car for $4,580 each (as compared to $7150 to convert the troop sleeper)
You can see why the Pennsy, at least, said... "we'll pass"
Must have been a different story for the railroads that DID buy them. I know NYC had a bunch!
Happy modeling...Ed
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Post by Spikre on Feb 15, 2014 5:48:04 GMT -8
 gmpullman, Allied Full Cushion trucks were Banned from Interchange Service by the AAR about 12/55,well after the Troop cars were sold off. some roads changed them out,ASF A-3s were a common truck under them,some got BX trucks,others got old Express car tucks. the roads that didn't change the trucks kept the cars online. there are pics of cars in MOW service into the 80s with Allied trucks. cars that sat still for years didn't derail too often,unless they were on PC,or CNJ. Spikre
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Post by trebor on Feb 16, 2014 13:11:17 GMT -8
Looks very nice. Normally you don't see a lot of attention paid to troop sleepers and diners. Now that WWII is over 70 years ago. Don't forget the plethora of post US Army railroad modified headend cars. These are some of the most interesting equipment to hit the rails. Often with replacement trucks, modified sides and ends and painted in passenger schemes. Many ran all over the country as storage mail, some such as B&M made RPO variants. NHbhad a largebgroup that can be seen nationwide up to the Amtrash era. There were several Monon troop cars up to 1980 in Bloomington IN Mcdoel yard. Back to disassembly, I have had some success with de-bonding non solvent joints by freezing model, then hot water cycle. Use a narrowed dulled X-Acto chisel blade rather than a screw driver so less spreading force is applied risking broken part rather than broken joint. |
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Post by Spikre on Feb 19, 2014 12:22:05 GMT -8
 Allied Full Cushion Trucks: see POST Below. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on Feb 19, 2014 12:26:08 GMT -8
Allied Full Cushion Trucks: did NOT have a Spring Plank. they had a Lateral Motion Bolster. the journal boxes had Coil springs on both sides of the Axle. also had an Equalization Bar inside the U Side Casting,one on each side. the extra springs may have made the cars Bouncy ? the bolsters were solidly mounted to the Sideframes,were also Self Aligning.something that was popular with the AAR in the 30s. most were cast by ASF/Commonwealth,were later replaced in the ASF/Commonwealth Catalog with the BX series of trucks. Spikre
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