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Post by Amboy Secondary on Jul 7, 2014 17:58:08 GMT -8
Before you B&O fans get your head out over your skis, if Walthers holds serve like they've done the last few years, it will be more whimper than wow. The Metroliner, short and sweet as it is and the corresponding Amfleets, have been the only really new tooling of a complete train. Walthers took a half heart stab at the Pere Marquette, leaving many cold to the release. The rest of the passenger train models by Wm. K have been mostly rehashes of models already in house. The "new and improved" Super Chief and Empire Builder come to mind as well as the pathetic stab at the Union Pacific executive train. That's an ever present possibility. The Pere Marquette's coaches were reissues of previous C&O 52 seat coach tooling, the coach diner, I think, used the same basic coach car body. Thus only the 10-6, and the Club Buffet were new tooling. I'm not certain if the head end cars even resembled the prototype. My speculation is that if they do a complete train, it will be the "Columbian". This would require new tooling for five separate cars, the Baggage - dormitory - coffee shop; the dining car, the Stratadome, the Tavern -Observation and the coach. The initial as delivered train had four coaches, Dome, Diner, Dorm and Observation. This was the only complete post ww2 lightweight train purchased by the B&O. Any other B&O train would require additional tooling, except for the "Daylight Speedliner". It won't be long, until we find out what will be............. Joe
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:49:29 GMT -8
That's an ever present possibility. The Pere Marquette's coaches were reissues of previous C&O 52 seat coach tooling, the coach diner, I think, used the same basic coach car body. Thus only the 10-6, and the Club Buffet were new tooling. I'm not certain if the head end cars even resembled the prototype. My speculation is that if they do a complete train, it will be the "Columbian". This would require new tooling for five separate cars, the Baggage - dormitory - coffee shop; the dining car, the Stratadome, the Tavern -Observation and the coach. The initial as delivered train had four coaches, Dome, Diner, Dorm and Observation. This was the only complete post ww2 lightweight train purchased by the B&O. Any other B&O train would require additional tooling, except for the "Daylight Speedliner". It won't be long, until we find out what will be............. Joe I've been a model railroader my entire life, have worked for railroads east & west, have visited relatives and friends in Ohio & near DC numerous times, lived in Ohio for six months, and I've been to all the states, most many times. I've never heard of the Columbian. Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_%28B%26O_train%29
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jul 7, 2014 21:53:53 GMT -8
Fascinating thread on Baltimore and Ohio passenger trains. I've learned a lot. The Columbian is a great looking train I will seriously consider buying should they do it.
It would be interesting to know if Walthers had satisfactory sales numbers on the Pere Marquette train.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 7, 2014 22:55:16 GMT -8
Which prior trains have been re-run as lighted? (Or plated or otherwise improved)
They might be continuing that along with shorter 'new' name trains to minimize tooling. Hence offbeat choices like the Pere Marquette.
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Post by mrbando on Jul 8, 2014 5:08:43 GMT -8
Before you B&O fans get your head out over your skis, if Walthers holds serve like they've done the last few years, it will be more whimper than wow. The Metroliner, short and sweet as it is and the corresponding Amfleets, have been the only really new tooling of a complete train. Walthers took a half heart stab at the Pere Marquette, leaving many cold to the release. The rest of the passenger train models by Wm. K have been mostly rehashes of models already in house. The "new and improved" Super Chief and Empire Builder come to mind as well as the pathetic stab at the Union Pacific executive train. That's an ever present possibility. The Pere Marquette's coaches were reissues of previous C&O 52 seat coach tooling, the coach diner, I think, used the same basic coach car body. Thus only the 10-6, and the Club Buffet were new tooling. I'm not certain if the head end cars even resembled the prototype. My speculation is that if they do a complete train, it will be the "Columbian". This would require new tooling for five separate cars, the Baggage - dormitory - coffee shop; the dining car, the Stratadome, the Tavern -Observation and the coach. The initial as delivered train had four coaches, Dome, Diner, Dorm and Observation. This was the only complete post ww2 lightweight train purchased by the B&O. Any other B&O train would require additional tooling, except for the "Daylight Speedliner". It won't be long, until we find out what will be............. Joe And even for the Daylight Speedliner, they'd need to re-tool the RDC-2--it had a kitchen behind the baggage compartment, with windows blanked on one side, and two small windows on the other, not to mention the kitchen's smoke stack and vent. And, I forgot when I originally posted this, the headlights are wrong on the RDC-2 and RDC-1, they would need to be re-tooled to be on top of the roof in a housing to allow for the diaphragms. Something else to consider on the Capitol verses Columbian debate: they already released the smooth-side 10-6 back in January, so sales of that as part of a Capitol would be limited (pun intended). Of course, B&O had four additional 10-6 sleepers they bought used in 1957, with fluting below the windows, and Walthers already tipped their hand that they will be doing those by providing the names of those cars on the smooth side 10-6 car-name decal sheet (but not the correct smooth side names). Ca. 1959, the Capitol ran for a season as an all-room train, and, if equipment utilization was right, would have been nearly all stainless steel, although some cars would have been blue and gray above the belt-rail (P-S cars) and others all fluted (Budd cars). The consist would be: Columbian Coffee Shoppe Lounge car--smooth side P-S (and only if the Columbian was running combined with the Ambassador--otherwise a rebuilt heavyweight) Bird Sleeper (Budd) Dome-Sleeper (Budd) Twin-Unit Diner (P-S) Bird Sleeper (Budd) 10-6 (P-S) 10-6 (P-S) 5dbr-L-Obs (P-S) That is a fairly consistent train in appearance, and about the length of other name-train consists released by Walthers. However, I still think it will be the Columbian. And given a choice, that is the train I'd rather see get done. I don't find the argument about name-recognition to be that compelling since the sample size is so small and is not representation of the model railroading community at large. I guess we'll be finding out before too much longer. Greg
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 9, 2014 14:42:56 GMT -8
It would be interesting to know if Walthers had satisfactory sales numbers on the Pere Marquette train. As would I. Initially I was quite excited until I saw what the were doing. I had hopes that they were doing the 1946 version as seen in Mr. Milhaupt's logo above and in this postcard: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pere_Marquette_%28C%26O_train%29#mediaviewer/File:Pere_Marquette_Railway_streamliner.JPG The Walther's model, tho, was a total rehash based on the post merger C&O version that ran from Chicago to Grand Rapids in addition to the Grand Rapids to Detroit round trip service of the 1946 train. I gave the whole thing a pass. That said some were pleased with the Walthers' product. To accurately present the 1946 train would have taken extensive tooling and understandably was not done by Walthers on what was a small market regional train with a short time period of operation as delivered. Ironically the PM could still be modeled in 2014 by using Walthers' current Amtrak equipment as it still is run daily from Chicago to Grand Rapids. My nickle...
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Post by drolsen on Jul 15, 2014 11:27:14 GMT -8
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2014 11:50:37 GMT -8
Excellent!
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2014 11:56:58 GMT -8
Does this also cement a Western Name Train for 2015?
(North Coast Limited is my early pick)
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jul 15, 2014 12:31:01 GMT -8
Does this also cement a Western Name Train for 2015? (North Coast Limited is my early pick) Makes sense. I call "Phoebe Snow!" for 2016.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2014 12:39:39 GMT -8
Does this also cement a Western Name Train for 2015? (North Coast Limited is my early pick) Makes sense. I call "Phoebe Snow!" for 2016. That could open the door for the Texas Special in 2017...
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Post by mlehman on Jul 15, 2014 13:43:38 GMT -8
Congrats to the B&O crowd. Looks like they got just about everything they wanted. Looks like Walthers is doing it right and covering a bunch of bases with these cars and locos.
My only issue would be that LED lighting should just be standard. Nice you can get it in the Deluxe set, though, so it's there if you need it and don't want to bother later. I don't mind installing my own lighting, but since it's only the rare car that's likely to draw my interest as a new purchase these days, it's something I don't expect to have to do.
Now the speculation can begin on what other prototype will the new cars produced for this project eventually permit Walthers to do more cost-effectively in the future.
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Post by jaygee on Jul 15, 2014 14:14:40 GMT -8
In a word....INSTANT BEEANO ! This is such great news, we're just going to have to celebrate ! Huzzah ! Just look at all the fantastic stuff to be rolled out......A freekin' BIRD car, and that wild sleeper Budd dome off the Chessie. Sounds like the E8s are gonna get a little tweak too. No sleep for this kid tonight !
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Post by chessie77 on Jul 15, 2014 15:24:29 GMT -8
With this release Walthers now has models of all the cars used by Auto Train. All they need to do would be bring out a U36B on their U28/30B chassis and they would have the whole train.
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Post by drolsen on Jul 15, 2014 15:59:04 GMT -8
The original Auto-Train would make for an awesome name train! I hope they at least offer the appropriate cars in that paint scheme. I never rode on it myself, but I remember seeing photos of it as a child, and the MR article in model its equipment was one of my early memories of that magazine.
Dave
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Jul 15, 2014 16:04:35 GMT -8
Congrats to the B&O crowd. Looks like they got just about everything they wanted. Looks like Walthers is doing it right and covering a bunch of bases with these cars and locos. My only issue would be that LED lighting should just be standard. Nice you can get it in the Deluxe set, though, so it's there if you need it and don't want to bother later. I don't mind installing my own lighting, but since it's only the rare car that's likely to draw my interest as a new purchase these days, it's something I don't expect to have to do. Now the speculation can begin on what other prototype will the new cars produced for this project eventually permit Walthers to do more cost-effectively in the future. This is going to cost me - big time Walthers stepped out of the Eastern All Pullman box, because this train is in reality the Combined Capitol Limited/Columbian from about 1959 - 1960. The base consist offered, covers almost exactly, the off peak train. A few extra cars and you can fill the train out and add the Ambassador section. Now for those who model other Eastern trains, the Budd Dome sleeper and the 16-4 Bird sleepers went to the SCL, then Amtrak. The Twin unit PS diner/kitchen dorm went from the C&O to the NYC to the B&O to the SCL to the Auto Train. IC had similar cars. The Slumbercoaches went to the SCL then Amtrak. At least one of the Domes - Moonlight Dome - is still around as a PV. There are many exciting possibilities. . Just like the Broadway Limited from several years ago, opened the door to modeling numerous PRR passenger trains, the cars Walthers is offering, will allow a B&O modeler to effectively and accurately model a large portion of the B&O passenger fleet, during the period 1958 to 1971.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2014 17:22:10 GMT -8
Walthers/proto and Atlas certainly can do the autotrain U36B, so yes, that would be a heck of a plan. Rode it when I was a youngun. Good times
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Post by jaygee on Jul 15, 2014 18:20:28 GMT -8
The PS butt end obs cars Napanee, Wawasee, Dana, and Metcalf went to Amtrak for the refurbed Broadway LTD. of spring 1972...I was there for all the weird colored interior fabrics.
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Jul 15, 2014 18:50:44 GMT -8
The PS butt end obs cars Napanee, Wawasee, Dana, and Metcalf went to Amtrak for the refurbed Broadway LTD. of spring 1972...I was there for all the weird colored interior fabrics. Yeah, they were wild "designer" fabric, weren't they. I rode the Dana, I think it was, one morning down the Port Road from Harrisburg to Baltimore. Sampled Amtrak's Egg-McMuffin clone with Am-coffee. This was right before TS Agnes flooded everything, and the train was routed via Philadelphia. I have one in Brass - one of the two modified for mid train service. The new plastic one will probably cost more than I paid for the Brass, but will contain interior detail and glazing at the least. Should be interesting to compare side by side. Thinking a minute, the only time I rode the Capitol, back in '68 or '69, the Obs was next to the diner, with a couple of sleepers and the Detroit coach on the rear My Slumbercoach was just ahead of the twin diner, the dome and coach ahead behind the RPO and Baggage car. Joe
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Post by jaygee on Jul 16, 2014 4:21:36 GMT -8
For my purposes, I hope Walthers does the PS obs. cars set up for mid train with diaphragms on the rear end. Y'know, I'm not really sure when this was done...but it still adds a unique flavor to the car, IMHO ! As for Auto-Train, it would be awesome. Proto needs to do the U36b here, cuz Atlas will make the Blombergs too small. Anyway, such a chooch would be a departure for Walthers, as all their passenger trains to date have operated out of Chicago. Should they stick to this paradigm, my next choice would be the Panama LTD.
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wictl
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by wictl on Jul 16, 2014 4:49:22 GMT -8
My research on the cars that Walthers has announced shows that the for Blunt-end Sleeper-Lounge Observation cars were delivered to the C&O with the diaphrams. When the B&O purchased 4 of the 8 cars from the C&O, the B&O removed the diaphragms from two cars and renamed them "Nappanee" and "Wawasee" for the Capital Limited. The "Dana" and "Metcalf" retained the diaphragms for service on the Ambassador.
I also hope that Walthers decides to do the Auto-Train. The only missing car is the other Santa Fe Big Dome (Dome Lounge) as Walthers has only done the Dome-Lounge-Dormitory. The U36B is also needed.
Darin
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Post by roadkill on Jul 16, 2014 5:41:03 GMT -8
This one's gonna hurt. Can't wait!
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Post by roadkill on Jul 16, 2014 5:46:49 GMT -8
There isn't much (if anything) left to stop Walther's from doing the C&O George Washington now. Bring on the undecs!
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Post by keystonecrossings on Jul 16, 2014 5:54:33 GMT -8
Congrats to the B&O crowd... good looking train.
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Post by jaygee on Jul 16, 2014 9:53:50 GMT -8
I'm in for the George ...no doubt and no sweat! Can you pronounce tri-color E8s...or even better...Bow Wave ! Huzzah !
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Post by railthunder on Jul 16, 2014 18:52:42 GMT -8
With this release Walthers now has models of all the cars used by Auto Train. All they need to do would be bring out a U36B on their U28/30B chassis and they would have the whole train. About the only thing left is the steam generator car and seeing that Walthers did the Santa Fe baggage I would presume that would be the likely at some point in the future as a Santa Fe and Auto Train prototype.
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Post by railthunder on Jul 16, 2014 19:02:42 GMT -8
I'm happy for all the B&O guys for the Capitol Limited. I'm hopeful Walthers will do the later paint variations on some of the equipment as well as later owners of the cars. One of my absolute favorite runs Walthers did was the original Empire Builder where they did all three schemes including the later BN versions followed by Amtrak at a later date. This me to pick and choose what paint I wanted to get a era specific post 1968 Builder. I would love to see them do this with passenger releases and offer the cars in later schemes.
Several of these eventually went to Amtrak. The twin unit diner is also good for the ACL/SCL. The dome sleeper and Bird Sleeper also went to SCL and Amtrak which I might order to paint in SCL. The Bird Sleeper was used on a lot of the Amtrak Florida trains in the 1970s. I've seen pictures of them on the Floridian and the Champion. Somewhere I remember seeing a picture of the ACL Florida Special in Florida in 1964 or so with the B&O Sleeper dome bringing up the rear of the train!
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Post by roadkill on Jul 17, 2014 14:04:35 GMT -8
I'm hoping that Walthers will do the coaches in the blue/yellow merger scheme at the very least. Then maybe some blue/grey merger scheme E8's and E9's to pull them
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Post by carrman on Jul 17, 2014 16:23:30 GMT -8
Glad the B&O crowd won one! Now, can we get a nice Sunset for the next train?
Dave
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Post by jaygee on Jul 17, 2014 16:42:07 GMT -8
I used to say that the Sunset would entail too many new cars, and tooling. But after this development, I'm not so sure we won't see it some time soon.
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