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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 6:56:29 GMT -8
And as far as getting kids into the hobby, let's just say if they have no real interest in trains to begin with, you are just wasting your time. And as far as clubs go, many of us have a dim view of admitting young kids into the club given the behaviors we've seen exhibited in the past. Dave My former club had a no children allowed policy. This came about after one of the member's kids did a face plant on a module which was on the floor as the layout was being set up. The member was a good person and busted their fanny to repair the considerable damage. I've seen other clubs where the kids can't keep their hands off of anything and the parent or parents are oblivious to it all. Then you have the kid that is bored stiff and decides yelling and fussing is the answer. Members of clubs spend considerable time building layouts and rolling stock. They want it to stay relatively safe. They also want a public event to be pleasant for all attendees.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 7:07:41 GMT -8
This kerfuffle over kids and model railroading comes up constantly on this forum and on all modeling forums, including plastic kits such as cars, tanks, planes, etc.. The fact is well intentioned adults seem to think that dragging junior or missy by the scruff of the neck to shows, the basement to see dad's toys, hobby shop, etc. is going to get the kid to roll over and adopt the hobby. Ain't happening. Let the child come to the hobby and they will stay a lot longer. Either they are interested or they are not. Live with it. Some adults approach getting a child interested in a hobby, like the Soviets and Chinese used to "reeducate" those that opposed the regime. Jim, you aren't going to change people who feel in some way they want to promote the hobby to the next generation. If you are feeling uncharitable or grumpy toward them, just leave them be. Just remember, some adults take the same approach with their children with sports too, even more so. Good grief I've seen some parent nearly bust blood vessels over how little league games go. There isn't much we can do about fanatics in any genre, just steer clear of them if they bother you, or skip over their posts. It's better for your blood pressure! Remember, Model Railroading is Fun! Jim Sports are worse than hobbies. Parents take the winning and the losing personally. How many times have we seen in the news brawls break out at youth sporting events? Whether its hobbies, sports, dance, after school activities or some other group thing, parents today seem to feel their children MUST PARTICIPATE. It doesn't matter that junior doesn't want to play soccer. Its what all the other kids do. I think some parents must drive an extra 10,000 miles a year flitting here and there to events with the kids. I'm an old person(mid 50's) and I sure as heck wasn't driven all over the map. For Little League, I rode my bike to practice and games. When I played football in high school I walked home after practice a distance of a couple of miles. I guess I don't understand kids today, for it is so different from when I was their age. Never thought I'd say I am a victim of the generation gap.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 7:51:35 GMT -8
To compare taking kids to a train show to Soviet Gulags is just about the most absurd comparison I have ever heard or read. To a child that has NO interest and DOESN'T want to be at a train show, etc.. It is in the mind of that child pure agony and akin to a prison sentence. My former club used to set up its modular layout at a major display only train show in the western suburbs of Chicago. You'd see some kids that you could tell were thoroughly enjoying seeing the all the layouts and displays and others that felt they were being punished. The disinterest in these kids didn't need an expert to figure it out. As experienced hobbyists we can be open and inviting to kids. Setting rules about touching, etc. is expected and acceptable. If clubs don't want young children around, so be it. It is after all the club's and member's layout and models. Respect the club's decision, it isn't necessarily a bunch of grumpy old men. The club may have previous poor experience with young people. But, if the child wants to do something other than model building, don't try to force them into model building. Some youngsters will become model railroaders for a lifetime. I just wouldn't expect a tidal wave of young people in the hobby.
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Post by carrman on Aug 1, 2014 8:34:55 GMT -8
I have been into the hobby all of my life. From my earliest years I can remember a serious interest in trains. For me, the model train hobby compliments, and is a result of my interest in the prototype. I don't think I'd be as into the hobby without a love of the real thing. For the record, I joined my club at age 15, and I'm 45 now.
Dave
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Post by riogrande on Aug 1, 2014 9:04:35 GMT -8
To a child that has NO interest and DOESN'T want to be at a train show, etc.. It is in the mind of that child pure agony and akin to a prison sentence. I think your second comment explains the first one. Todays kids are brought up differently than when I was a kid, which is probably why they act like going to an event the don't want to be at is like pure agony akin to a prison sentence. I can tell you that growing up, my parents took me to all kinds of places, some of them cool and fun, and others bored me to death but I was expected to behave myself and deal with it. If I am allowed to get up on my soapbox today, it seems many parents now coddle their kids so much that they can't endure things like trains shows, or worse, going furniture shopping all day long or some other place a kid would rather not be. Many children, due to the way they are raised and the low expectations placed on them will be utterly miserable to other people because they were never taught to be patient, not whine, respect others and endure things not to their liking. That's life! Kids need to be taught to endure things they don't like - not that we torture them on purpose. OTOH since they are all addicted to their mobile game devices or smart phones (aka pacifiers), you can take them anywhere and the will be happy as clams! It's all part of life. You can't please all kids all the time. My parents philosophy was to expose me any my sisters to everything possible, which means some things make kids feel like they are being punished. But its part of growing up and lessons for life that sometimes you get what you are given, and not everything is to your liking but you need to endure it with grace and poise. This is something sadly that many children are not being taught. Now if you are trying to expose a child to the hobby, or anything else for that matter, and after so much time it is evident that little johnny just doesn't have a thing for trains, or whatever, then move on. It's also true that not every kid is going to be like Daddy there is a point you have to give in to the Schwartz and let them find things they like, through trial and error. Rules are a good thing - when parent can't/don't/won't control their children, clubs have to take things to there own hands. If anyone complains, the answer is common sense. We've had too many things damaged and had to put a stop to it. End of story. Next!
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Post by WP 257 on Aug 1, 2014 9:16:02 GMT -8
too far off topic, deleted.
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Post by thekonquerer on Aug 1, 2014 9:35:35 GMT -8
Sometimes I lay in my bed at night, wondering what it would be like to be Batman. Pummeling criminals to a pulp with your bare hands, driving a high tech tank, blowing stuff up, swinging from rooftop to rooftop using a grappling device, flirting with a woman in a skin-tight bodysuit with car ears, and having your own personal British butler. Must be so cool...
Since this thread is so laughably off topic, I figured I shall contribute my own completely irrelevant tidbit...
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Post by SantaFeJim on Aug 1, 2014 9:49:36 GMT -8
As I always say...
Sticks and Stones may break my bones...
But Hollow Points E-X-P-A-N-D on impact.
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Post by dti406 on Aug 1, 2014 10:42:23 GMT -8
All I can say for MTH is this. They are younger than most other companies. They are improving (DCC ready locomotives, putting Kadee couplers as options for modelers, etc). All I ask for from ANY company is that they don't throw up an astronomically high B.S. price for a product that doesn't warrant the price, work on improving their products, and listen to the customer. -James To somewhat get this topic back on track, I take umbrage with the opinion that MTH listens to the customer. It took a customer to post his problems with MTH regarding warranty replacement for an item not purchased through an "MTH AUTHORIZED DEALER", the backlash on this and other forums finally led MTH to give him a replacement, but will that happen all the time. Another poster commented that BLI does not get the short shrift that MTH gets, but BLI went to the PRR Historical Society in order to build proper PRR models that have blown off the shelves while MTH builds a half-assed model of an H10 Consolidation that is neither an H9 or and H10 Consolidation, they had the same problem with the K4 Pacific, which is why they have never re-run that model, while BLI continues to make new runs. Their latest small diesel was a joke with a Tyco Pilot and myriad other errors, but did they fix any of them, no, they just go on building stuff that is not up to snuff and expect the modeler to buy it. It may work with the O-Tinplate boys but it fails with the HO scale modelers. Rick J
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:56:54 GMT -8
All I ask for from ANY company is that they don't throw up an astronomically high B.S. price for a product that doesn't warrant the price. -James Must not have looked at the horrid GP35 MTH produced for only a couple hundred per copy.
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Post by wp8thsub on Aug 1, 2014 12:16:16 GMT -8
Must not have looked at the horrid GP35 MTH produced for only a couple hundred per copy. I was at a show where MTH was pushing everybody to drool over their pre-production GP35. I told their reps I thought it looked inferior to the warmed over RPP unit a couple booths over at Athearn, and specifically noted the grilles and fans. For some reason they didn't want to talk to me after that. And let's not forget their POS PS-1. For one example, Kadee produced a nice model of this WP car: It has the correct lettering placement and color, plus the correct 7' doors. It's also actually a PS-1. Here's MTH's answer to a car supposedly in the same production batch. Did anybody research this thing? Note the lack of end reporting marks and the unpainted brakewheel to go along with the rest of the issues. It reminds me of Bachmann; the prices are moving up toward those of the better manufacturers, but nobody involved seems to respect the customer enough to do things right. I have no real animosity toward MTH, and would be open to purchasing something from them if it were well executed. To gain my interest, though, they have to do better than this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 14:54:09 GMT -8
I was at a show where MTH was pushing everybody to drool over their pre-production GP35. I told their reps I thought it looked inferior to the warmed over RPP unit a couple booths over at Athearn, and specifically noted the grilles and fans. For some reason they didn't want to talk to me after that. And let's not forget their POS PS-1. It reminds me of Bachmann; the prices are moving up toward those of the better manufacturers, but nobody involved seems to respect the customer enough to do things right. I have no real animosity toward MTH, and would be open to purchasing something from them if it were well executed. To gain my interest, though, they have to do better than this. I saw the MTH PS-1 at my dealer painted in New York Central and though the car was relatively cheap at $13.95, the paint just didn't look right.
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Post by bnsf971 on Aug 1, 2014 16:00:26 GMT -8
For $13.95, it is an assembled 1980's-era Blue Box car, with a price adjusted for inflation.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 1, 2014 16:07:52 GMT -8
All I ask for from ANY company is that they don't throw up an astronomically high B.S. price for a product that doesn't warrant the price. -James Must not have looked at the horrid GP35 MTH produced for only a couple hundred per copy. How is it horrid? Are you confusing it with the new GP in their inexpensive line?
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Post by atsfan on Aug 1, 2014 16:09:24 GMT -8
For $13.95, it is an assembled 1980's-era Blue Box car, with a price adjusted for inflation. Nobody is buying MTH freight cars. Either they sit unsold or dealers simply don't order them. So not to worry, the market is taking care of the situation.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Aug 1, 2014 16:09:41 GMT -8
All I ask for from ANY company is that they don't throw up an astronomically high B.S. price for a product that doesn't warrant the price. -James Must not have looked at the horrid GP35 MTH produced for only a couple hundred per copy.
Missed that one. Never got one in my hands so I didn't pass judgment on it.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 1, 2014 16:37:21 GMT -8
To compare taking kids to a train show to Soviet Gulags is just about the most absurd comparison I have ever heard or read. To a child that has NO interest and DOESN'T want to be at a train show, etc.. It is in the mind of that child pure agony and akin to a prison sentence. My former club used to set up its modular layout at a major display only train show in the western suburbs of Chicago. You'd see some kids that you could tell were thoroughly enjoying seeing the all the layouts and displays and others that felt they were being punished. The disinterest in these kids didn't need an expert to figure it out. As experienced hobbyists we can be open and inviting to kids. Setting rules about touching, etc. is expected and acceptable. If clubs don't want young children around, so be it. It is after all the club's and member's layout and models. Respect the club's decision, it isn't necessarily a bunch of grumpy old men. The club may have previous poor experience with young people. But, if the child wants to do something other than model building, don't try to force them into model building. Some youngsters will become model railroaders for a lifetime. I just wouldn't expect a tidal wave of young people in the hobby. Do you have children either being raised now or grown? Do you speak from actual experience with raising children ? It is ridiculous to compare a train show to prison.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 1, 2014 16:38:06 GMT -8
Must not have looked at the horrid GP35 MTH produced for only a couple hundred per copy.
Missed that one. Never got one in my hands so I didn't pass judgment on it.
It isn't that bad. It isn't great. But not "horrid".
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Post by carrman on Aug 1, 2014 16:54:52 GMT -8
They are the only company to offer a late phase GP35.....
Dave
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Post by carrman on Aug 1, 2014 16:55:56 GMT -8
To a child that has NO interest and DOESN'T want to be at a train show, etc.. It is in the mind of that child pure agony and akin to a prison sentence. My former club used to set up its modular layout at a major display only train show in the western suburbs of Chicago. You'd see some kids that you could tell were thoroughly enjoying seeing the all the layouts and displays and others that felt they were being punished. The disinterest in these kids didn't need an expert to figure it out. As experienced hobbyists we can be open and inviting to kids. Setting rules about touching, etc. is expected and acceptable. If clubs don't want young children around, so be it. It is after all the club's and member's layout and models. Respect the club's decision, it isn't necessarily a bunch of grumpy old men. The club may have previous poor experience with young people. But, if the child wants to do something other than model building, don't try to force them into model building. Some youngsters will become model railroaders for a lifetime. I just wouldn't expect a tidal wave of young people in the hobby. Do you have children either being raised now or grown? Do you speak from actual experience with raising children ? It is ridiculous to compare a train show to prison. I agree with his analogy. And, I've raised a son. Dave
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Post by WP 257 on Aug 1, 2014 18:50:16 GMT -8
Not all MTH items are "horrid". They took a reasonable looking gondola, painted and lettered it for some paint schemes that are rarely offered, and they flew off the store shelves around here. A Reading gondola in green with the yellow top chord and yellow speed lettering will fly off the shelves every single time. Pity Tangent only paints their totally correct car in the far-too-early 1940's as delivered scheme. Even a 1950's repaint to black with white speed lettering on that car would sell, and some survived until the mid-1980's as I had one photo of one in CR mow gray, but it was clearly marked with the former Reading number in the upper right corner. (Tangent may not have photo proof of the later Reading schemes on their car).
MTH knows that certain paint schemes will sell, and they offer some of them. They have quietly gained market share around the area where I live--especially during the recent shortage of Athearn and (to a lesser extent) Atlas HO freight cars. When Exactrail went direct only, some dealers simply replaced their ExactRail stock with MTH.
Are they for everyone? Perhaps not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 7:59:28 GMT -8
They are the only company to offer a late phase GP35..... Dave Which is unfortunate. When you compare the 20 year old Kato GP35 to the MTH GP35, the Kato is the better model. Kato is still the best GP35 on the market. Now if Kato would do a run of its GP35 with an upgrade here and there, a lot people will be happy.
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