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Post by atsfan on Oct 26, 2014 17:41:22 GMT -8
I received in the mail the new Accurail PS 4750 Grain Hipper kit. This has been coming for a long, long time and it is finally out. At least in a few paint jobs like AFSF Brown. Some thoughts before I build it. First it is made in the USA. That is nice. Second I paid about $15. That is nice. The car is not a shake the box kit. The ends are separate and need to be put together. The roof walk is molded with the main body. It looks nice. Not awesome but nice. For $15 it looks fine. It would be a huge pain to remove the roof and install a Plano roof. You are better off with the similar Atlas Trainman car if that is your desire. The end parts that extend are spar are pieces. The paint is typical Accurail. Very flat. The lettering is very sharp, but not bright. Almost faded looking a touch. Overall the paint is fine if you want an in service car and especially if you will weather it. The weight is flat steel. I may end up using it or adding weight instead down the three outlet basins to lower the center of gravity. The weight is thicker than an Athearn Weight. Nice trucks. Molded Mineral Brown. Plastic wheels. They seem OK but I will use metal ones. Accurate couplers. These work OK for me, I may stick with them. Overall my first impression is highly favorable. I will start building it soon. I would suggest getting some as we need more kits at reasonable prices, and it is made in the USA to boot !  |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 26, 2014 17:50:58 GMT -8
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Post by scl1234 on Oct 27, 2014 4:08:42 GMT -8
Sounds like shake the box if the roof walk is molded-on and there are no separate grabs to be installed. Is the floor one-piece like most other Accurail kits? The ends on Front Range (now Athearn) ACF 2970cf hoppers were separate...those were shake the box kits IMO.
A molded-on roof walk will kill the deal for a few. Post a few pics when you're done.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 27, 2014 4:56:28 GMT -8
While it isn't a deal breaker to me, many other shake in the box covered hoppers were manufactured with seperate roof walk parts, including Athearn and Walthers. I'm still baffled as to why Accurail, after much discussion of the CF4600 still chose to follow a similar design on the new CF4750, making it a good deal harder to replace the roof walk with an etched metal part if desired. I suppose Accurail believed if someone truly wanted an etched metal roof, they'd spring for an IMR or Tangent hopper, but options are a good thing.
Whats done is done. They still look very decent for the street price of $15 +/- and it is true that adding the etched metal roof, metal wheels and Kadee's would put it in the same price point as the street price of an Intermountain CF4750, possibly more.
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Post by catt on Oct 27, 2014 6:27:35 GMT -8
Making the roof walk a seperate piece would involve doing another mold therefore raising the start up costs for the model.I've seen the car in photos on Facebook and they look fine to me.But then again I may not be as fussy as some folks.  |
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Post by dstark on Oct 27, 2014 6:37:03 GMT -8
 There is no common tooling or any other connection between the Front Range Products/McKean ACF CF2980 and the Athearn CF2970. Different prototypes, different models... different everything. Both models being styrene and both prototypes being built by ACF is about it. Doug Stark |
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 27, 2014 8:45:13 GMT -8
A buddy of mine picked up a BN one, the paint is okay, (Accurail's paint is their own worst enemy) definitely not great. The model itself looked pretty nice. I'll probably take a chance on a D&RGW.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 27, 2014 11:35:53 GMT -8
Sounds like shake the box if the roof walk is molded-on and there are no separate grabs to be installed. Is the floor one-piece like most other Accurail kits? The ends on Front Range (now Athearn) ACF 2970cf hoppers were separate...those were shake the box kits IMO. A molded-on roof walk will kill the deal for a few. Post a few pics when you're done. You would need to shake it hard. It is not like the Athearn car or even the Accurail ACF car. To my eyes it would have been easier to tool it like Atlas did. And thus easy to put on a metal roof walk . But they tooled the roof all in. The bottom is one piece. |
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Post by jbilbrey on Oct 27, 2014 17:56:59 GMT -8
I built a Accurail P-S 4750 hopper over the weekend and echo Atsfan's comments. It took me most of a Saturday afternoon to build the car, not because of any significant problems. But, I wanted to make sure everything fitted properly. I also took the time to remove seam lines from the frame parts and braces as well as add the air lines running between the brake cylinder, air tank, and AB valve. The only parts that I found needed any trimming so they would fit better were the coupler box covers and the chain that goes from the handbrake gear housing down to the end cage. The trucks ended up in my spare parts bin. I replaced them with a pair of Ring Engineering trucks with a working EOT. This car along with couple more Accurail P-S and several more ACF hoppers will be used on a modular layout. I have several more Intermountain and Tangent hoppers that will be placed closer to the locomotives.
All in all, I am happy with them. They are not made for everyone. For starters, they are not as detailed as an Intermountain or Tangent LO. As Dave Olsen pointed out, the CSX cars are not correct detail-wise for the roadnumbers used. But at $15, they are nearly half the price of Athearn's P-S 4740 hopper (which isn't quite as nice and represents a less common prototype 13k vs. 54k built). Even if the roofwalk was molded separately, replacing that part would probably bump one up to nearly the price of IM 4750. It may not be worth that to so model railroaders in order to get the earlier body-mounted vs. truck-mounted brake gear.
James Bilbrey
LaVergne, TN
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Post by runs2waynoka on Oct 28, 2014 7:07:00 GMT -8
Imo, the plastic roofwalks are not really that big of a deal. The common Morton "round hole" style that the Accurail car appears to have can be made to look pretty good by just doing some basic washes of dark paint over them to darken the holes. It also looks good to paint them the appopriate color, usually an aluminium color on older cars that have not been repainted and have had some or all of the roofwalk sections replaced over the years. I have an early Intermountain RTR 4750 with the plastic roofwalk that I've weathered sitting on the bench right now next to an Exactrail Evans 4780 and a later IM 4750 with the etched roofwalk. You have to look very closely to pick out the one with the plastic walk....
I really like the faded "red" of the Accurail Santa Fe 4750, I think I'm going to get one to weather and upgrade a bit. Adding the brake pipe and stiffner over the ribs, and some thinning of the side ladder grabs with a sharp knife would help greatly I think. It looks like the Accurail car has thinner, correct width ribs, unlike the IM car, and it almost looks better just because of that...
Do these have the old Accurail 70 ton trucks or did they tool a new 100 ton truck?
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Post by dstark on Oct 28, 2014 9:03:18 GMT -8
Do these have the old Accurail 70 ton trucks or did they tool a new 100 ton truck? Same old Accurail 77-ton trucks per a detailed review posted on the MFCL. I expect they have 33" wheels - I don't have an Accurail 4750 yet to check to see if they fudged it by putting 36" wheels in, comparable to how Intermountain faked 125-Ton trucks on their Maxi-IV bu putting 38" wheels in their 100-Ton sideframes. |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 28, 2014 9:25:26 GMT -8
I have an early Intermountain RTR 4750 with the plastic roofwalk that I've weathered sitting on the bench right now next to an Exactrail Evans 4780 and a later IM 4750 with the etched roofwalk. You have to look very closely to pick out the one with the plastic walk.... Where the difference is most notable is when you view from the sides of the car rather from the top down, where the weathering helps them blend in the best - but the thickness of the roof walk in plastic is very evident vs. the etched metal parts. More layouts these days are built to view trains more from that sides so ... That said, it's up to the modeler if the thicker plastic roof-walks are acceptable or not. I'm ok with the Accurail paint - it looks about right to me hue-wise and the flatter finish only makes them look like they've been oxidized from some time in-use and in the sun. Think of them as slightly weathered out-of-the-box! =P |
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Post by wp8thsub on Oct 28, 2014 12:19:54 GMT -8
Do these have the old Accurail 70 ton trucks or did they tool a new 100 ton truck? They get the one size fits all roller bearing truck. Somebody somewhere measured the Accurail truck and decided it had a 5'8" wheelbase and was a 77-ton prototype. The measurement looks right at 5'10" to me and my ruler, but maybe my eyeballs aren't what they used to be. In any event, the closest prototype to Accurail's tooling looks to me like the ASF 100-ton truck, so regardless of wheelbase it just strikes me as a poorly done 100-ton truck. If somebody can show me a confirmed 7x-ton truck matching Accurail's I'd like to see it to know for sure what it is. Close-up truck photos were posted in this earlier thread atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/2676/new-accurail-pix-4750-hopper . The only wheelset they throw in is the one-piece 33" plastic abomination, which heads straight for my trash can. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 28, 2014 12:47:32 GMT -8
Do these have the old Accurail 70 ton trucks or did they tool a new 100 ton truck? They get the one size fits all roller bearing truck. Somebody somewhere measured the Accurail truck and decided it had a 5'8" wheelbase and was a 77-ton prototype. The measurement looks right at 5'10" to me and my ruler, but maybe my eyeballs aren't what they used to be. In any event, the closest prototype to Accurail's tooling looks to me like the ASF 100-ton truck, so regardless of wheelbase it just strikes me as a poorly done 100-ton truck. If somebody can show me a confirmed 7x-ton truck matching Accurail's I'd like to see it to know for sure what it is. Close-up truck photos were posted in this earlier thread atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/2676/new-accurail-pix-4750-hopper . The only wheelset they throw in is the one-piece 33" plastic abomination, which heads straight for my trash can. I will use the trucks. They are fine. And painted or molded in brown. I will install 36 inch metal wheel sets Probably Proto 2000 since I have a bunch of them. No big deal. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 28, 2014 12:48:25 GMT -8
I have an early Intermountain RTR 4750 with the plastic roofwalk that I've weathered sitting on the bench right now next to an Exactrail Evans 4780 and a later IM 4750 with the etched roofwalk. You have to look very closely to pick out the one with the plastic walk.... Where the difference is most notable is when you view from the sides of the car rather from the top down, where the weathering helps them blend in the best - but the thickness of the roof walk in plastic is very evident vs. the etched metal parts. More layouts these days are built to view trains more from that sides so ... That said, it's up to the modeler if the thicker plastic roof-walks are acceptable or not. I'm ok with the Accurail paint - it looks about right to me hue-wise and the flatter finish only makes them look like they've been oxidized from some time in-use and in the sun. Think of them as slightly weathered out-of-the-box! =P Accurail paint on this kit is fine Saves using dull coat |
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Post by fr8kar on Oct 28, 2014 16:25:09 GMT -8
I really need to get a few of these undecorated kits and rework them into BF&F, Ingalls, RTC and NACC 4750s. I'm currently upgrading four Accurail 4600s and so far they are very easy kits to work with. I expect these 4750s to be just as nice.
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Post by pltbrnch on Oct 28, 2014 19:35:14 GMT -8
Fr8kar....You do know that as soon as you complete a RTC or Ingalls 4750 someone will come out with that model, right? "Modelers law." I have been waiting for either one of those cars to be done for years. The curved roofline would be very challenging to scratch build correctly.....and I need a fleet of these cars. Thus I wait. So hurry and finish yours ...... |
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Post by fr8kar on Oct 28, 2014 22:18:58 GMT -8
pltbrnch, I'm with you. That's half the reason I build the projects I do!
I've been thinking about how to handle some of these variations, especially differences like number and arrangement of side posts, and I keep coming back to 3D printing. Most 3D printed things I've seen aren't there yet for my application as a modeler since replicating curves can result in a stepped/terraced finish, but maybe the right approach is to use that technology to model flat/angular surfaces and just build new sides.
Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of the curved roof, but I think bracing with an overlay of 0.010" sheet styrene could be effective at reproducing the curve. If not, maybe laminating sheets of styrene until you have a suitable base to begin filing/carving/sanding to shape. Then again, all that work might be better spent cleaning up a 3D printed roof smoothing out the roughness.
Well, back to the Accurail 4600 hopper project on my bench. It's an early version, pltbrnch, so maybe we'll both get something out of this build if that modeler's law holds true...
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Post by Brakie on Oct 29, 2014 2:59:19 GMT -8
I need to add to my rather small hopper fleet and will order one of these kits and build it.
As far as Accurail's paint I wish all manufacturer would tone down their bright paint but,I guest bright and pretty is a eye catching selling point.
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Post by atsfan on Nov 12, 2014 19:31:17 GMT -8
I finished the kit.
Overall I really liked it.
The fit was very good. The only two things which gave me a few issues where connecting the bottoms of the end cages to the corner braces from the body.
Not much surface to glue onto.
Also the brake chain part and fulcrum did not fit too well and was very close to the coupler draft gear.
But overall a great kit and I am glad people still make them.
I used the kit couplers. Ditched the wheels for metal ones.
The roof walk does not bother me and the paint is nice and dull.
Good job and made in the USA.
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Post by nightmare0331 on Nov 14, 2014 8:02:47 GMT -8
I picked up one of these from Accurail at Trainfest and got around to assembling it yesterday. I thought it was a well thought out car that was pretty fun to build and parts fit together nicely. Is it an Exact Rail, Tangent, Intermountain etc. level car? No, however, it's not meant to be.  Enjoy! Kelley. Attachments:
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Post by grabbem88 on Nov 14, 2014 8:33:14 GMT -8
A little weathering I'd put that on my track.
You are right it's not a tangent or intermountain But the price fits the bill and my kids can eat tonight with desert! Lol
Seriously though those are great filler cars
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2014 9:36:43 GMT -8
The end cage and stirrups look significantly finer than those on old Athearn blue box and even the Walther's red box covered hopper kits.
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Post by atsfan on Nov 14, 2014 10:52:18 GMT -8
The end cage and stirrups look significantly finer than those on old Athearn blue box and even the Walther's red box covered hopper kits. Yes they are much finer than Athearn's. Much. |
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Post by stevewagner on Nov 14, 2014 12:08:11 GMT -8
Amen.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2014 14:06:04 GMT -8
Now if we could get a newer version of the CF5250 4-bay covered hopper with finer tooling!
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jmcin
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by jmcin on Nov 16, 2014 8:06:01 GMT -8
These are very nice kits,as noted some minor trimming is need for assembly. I added a Plano roofwalk to the first kit, and it required quite a bit of cutting and sanding to provide a smooth surface for the Plano parts.I happened to have a few of the roofwalks on hand.The roofwalk is an obvious improvement compared to the molded on roofwalk, if I do another one I may try to cut to save the exsisting brackets which would allow me to glue the roofwalk with Barge cement.
Jim
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Post by riogrande on Nov 16, 2014 8:55:16 GMT -8
Especially if you view covered hoppers from the top down, the etch metal roof walks make a noticeable improvement. The cutting is major if it is like the CF4600 which I still haven't done. I have two CF4600 I was going to convert into "look alikes" for the CF5200 plastic pellet hopper by splicing two bottoms to make them a 4 bay and then cut off the roof walks to convert them to the 13 post older style - they would be much better visual matches to the D&RGW CF5200 and look better than the Athearn blue box model - which has the angle iron stiffener (wrong for the D&RGW car, which has the twin beed stiffeners along the top chord.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 16, 2014 10:11:16 GMT -8
Especially if you view covered hoppers from the top down, the etch metal roof walks make a noticeable improvement. The cutting is major if it is like the CF4600 which I still haven't done. I have two CF4600 I was going to convert into "look alikes" for the CF5200 plastic pellet hopper by splicing two bottoms to make them a 4 bay and then cut off the roof walks to convert them to the 13 post older style - they would be much better visual matches to the D&RGW CF5200 and look better than the Athearn blue box model - which has the angle iron stiffener (wrong for the D&RGW car, which has the twin beed stiffeners along the top chord. The modifications to the 4600 are not that bad. The only area you have to cut/carve/file is the end. The rest just comes right off with a set of flush cutting nippers. I'm working on three of these right now and if I get a chance will take some progress photos. Plano offers the roofwalk kit with all medium width supports, but you can also get the alternating wide and narrow supports separately. The conversion from the high twin stiffener to single stiffener isn't that bad either, but requires some reshaping of the area where the twin stiffeners used to be. I've modified one of the Accurail cars to represent an older version. If I can round up another undecorated 4600, I will do the early high handbrake version. I also have the 5250 walkway and an Athearn model awaiting its fate as a GN Grain Loading car with grain outlets and a high handbrake. If you're going to model a Plate C car, in my opinion it's better to start with a Plate C model than a Plate B model. The difference between the two cross-sections is obvious to my eyes. |
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 16, 2014 10:59:04 GMT -8
Since the floor is a separate part on these cars, I'd like to see how difficult it would be to make one of these 5450 cf cars: www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=58224It would take two bodies to account for the difference in length and number of ribs and of course the number of bays. There may be minor problems with the finished model matching the prototype exactly, but a simple slice and dice and splice would get you much closer than anything else out there. Here's a use for the clerestory roof, for those who don't mind a fair bit of scratchbuilding: www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=49095Both are cars I've wanted for some time, but that's especially true of the pellet car. Here in Texas you can't go a day without seeing dozens of pellet cars and these ribside cars are always finding themselves in trains to and from Houston. One for variety amongst my cylindrical fleet would be just fine with me. |
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