routerock
Junior Member
Rock Island in 1977
Posts: 94
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Post by routerock on Mar 1, 2015 8:23:38 GMT -8
You never know. LOL. As long as they do not do like Bachmann and trump up their MSRP to the same prices of the superior versions and put out on an inferior version of the SD70ACe I will leave it be. Al you know they will. look what they are still trying to get for their old Proto line of engines.
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Post by markfj on Mar 1, 2015 12:02:22 GMT -8
Mark, thought it was well established that Proto is the best SD45 shell? and neither Proto or Kato has the correct Reading Extended cab. so Put the Proto SD45 Shell on the Kato chassis. Your still on Your own for the Correct Reading Cab. Spikre Spikre, the point of the photos wasn’t so much to say that the P2K SD45 shell is better than the Kato one (which as you stated is pretty much an accepted fact among modelers), but rather just to show that Kato isn’t that great with their tooling in general. I know someone (probably spookshow) did a similar side-by-side comparison of Kato and Atlas shells in n scale on the old Atlas boards. There again, Kato came up short. So, my point is that I don’t see the justification for excitement over a "potential" Kato SD70ACe given their track record of so-so tooling in their shells. Frankly, I would expect the Wather’s SD70ACe shell to be crowned the hands down winner in accuracy (like the SD45), if they keep to their previous tooling standards. On a side note, the reason I purchase the UP SD45 “was” to turn it into a Reading unit (swapping drives of course), but the darn thing looks so good (even in UP dress) that I can’t bring myself to tear it apart. Mark
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Post by Spikre on Mar 1, 2015 12:18:50 GMT -8
Mark, don't lose any sleep over stripping the U.P. SD45 for Reading, U.P. wasn't that thrilled with the SD45s !! one reason they never Re-Ordered. and the Shell has those large holes behind the cab,they need to be filled in as they were on later runs. as nice as the NS Heritage Erie and DL&W locos are,dont want any. don't care about any EMDs after the 40/45 series,the 50s and 60s series are as unwanted as the 70s series here. same with GEs,any -7,or -8,-9,or Gevos are not desired at all. did want the Susie Q B40-8s,but since they sold them off they are now Non Entities also. will keep working on the RS-1 and GP18 fleets here. but am intrigued by the Special Run S-2s by Maywood Station. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on Mar 1, 2015 12:23:55 GMT -8
Mark, the Kato GP35 is still considered the best of that model so far. maybe a different crew at Kato did that tooling ? so it is odd they never did follow up with the PHS-2 models. a number of big roads had them. or in EL's case,the majority of their GP35s were PHS-2s. just no reason to pass on the PHS-2s. Spikre
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Post by jbilbrey on Mar 1, 2015 12:34:43 GMT -8
<snip> Frankly, I would expect the Wather’s SD70ACe shell to be crowned the hands down winner in accuracy (like the SD45), if the keep to their previous tooling standards. <snip> Mark The problem is that Life-Like/P1K & P2K/Walthers has had a history of botching shells. While the tooling standards might be good, the accuracy may not have been there. On another thread, there is a discussion on some of the issues with their E-units. I've ran into problems with their SD60 (slightly undersized truck sideframes and some other detailing errors, IIRC), RS-11 (hoods not tall enough), U28B (at least the first run sat a little high and shell was shortened to make up for the discrepancy, and GP38-2 (cab and hood again was not tall enough). Walthers has at least kept the promise to abandon the "gearing of the month" that plagued most of the earlier P2K runs. The real issue that I foresee is that there are multiple phases (one site claims at least 10) seen on the SD70ACe/SD70M-2. I doubt for a Mainline model, Walthers will go the effort to tool the body to represent all of the minor differences. I expect that we'll see a SD70ACe shell that accurate for either the UP Heritage or NS Heritage schemes. Hopefully that while the grab-irons will be missing, starting points for the grabs will be present. Handrails will be a little more durable (but thicker) than the Athearn model. The trucks, while not as detailed as the Athearn model, will be more detailed than the Bachmann one. The extra details included (horns, plows, brakewheel, etc.) will be either generic or matching a specific railroad's units. However, all of this is a guess at this point. We won't know for sure until we see some sort of CAD drawings or preproduction models. James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by markfj on Mar 1, 2015 13:55:04 GMT -8
Yes, theP2K GP38-2 was a debacle to be sure (I actually forgot about that one : . And true, the Kato GP35 is the best we have for now. I just see a lot of guy over on Diesel Detailer replacing all they can to get a better looking model when they start with Kato shells.
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Post by craigz on Mar 1, 2015 17:38:04 GMT -8
SD70ACe - the modern model equivalent of the F unit...
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Mar 1, 2015 20:54:39 GMT -8
You never know. LOL. As long as they do not do like Bachmann and trump up their MSRP to the same prices of the superior versions and put out on an inferior version of the SD70ACe I will leave it be. Al you know they will. look what they are still trying to get for their old Proto line of engines. You are RIGHT! That is absolutely true! I am definitely going to get em! They will find their engine on Youtube CUT UP and slammed for their artificially inflated HIGH MSRP. It would be like me putting a $70 MSRP on my Monster LEDs but continue selling them for $29. That would be artificially inflating the value on the kits to deliberately deceive buyers into believing they are getting the Kits at a whopping 43% off for a $29 "Street Price". That is not cool, but that is what Bachmann has done and what Walthers will also likely do. But what makes them worse is that they are selling a far inferior product for the same MSRP as the other superior products and tell the customers they are getting a "real good deal on a high quality engine". Shame
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Post by rails4dmv on Mar 12, 2015 12:08:48 GMT -8
More info posted up on Walthers "New Products" section for the upcoming SD70ACE release. www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-19810I notice for these upcoming models, there seems to be a lack of ditch lights in the product announcement...
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Mar 12, 2015 13:25:16 GMT -8
I'm surprised, the MSRP on the Soundtraxx model is just $199 and the non-sound models are $129. It is not a high MSRP like Bachmann models so if they do not have ditchlights or handrails it won't be deceptive to potential buyers. Now if the MSRP was $299 and $229 non sound, well modelers SHOULD expect all those handrails, ditchlights, full sound capabilities and road specific details too! Well good for Walthers, very good for them doing this. Nice job Walthers!
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 12, 2015 14:32:10 GMT -8
Well, to consider, the current market for engines in the USA is two types, GEVO series, and 70ace series. It has been that way for at least 7 or so years or. Ore, and will be that way for a long while. So, if someone wants to make an engine for today's railroading, there are two options. The SD40ace would be a nice addition to their train sets. What is the SD40ace diesel you mentioned??? SD40ace?
Larry
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Post by bnsf971 on Mar 12, 2015 16:08:16 GMT -8
The ad copy does state "3 lighting functions". Could be ditch lights, headlights, and rear headlights.
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Post by alcoc430 on Mar 12, 2015 16:40:27 GMT -8
The SD40ace would be a nice addition to their train sets. What is the SD40ace diesel you mentioned??? SD40ace?
Larry TYPO - SD70ACE
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Post by bdhicks on Mar 12, 2015 17:28:00 GMT -8
There is no SD40ACE, but if Walthers wants to produce a PR30C I'd pick one up.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 12, 2015 17:43:04 GMT -8
I want to see pictures of the actual engines.
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Post by bdhicks on Mar 12, 2015 18:01:55 GMT -8
More info posted up on Walthers "New Products" section for the upcoming SD70ACE release. www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-19810I notice for these upcoming models, there seems to be a lack of ditch lights in the product announcement... Between the art on the product page and the tooling render that I saw in Model Railroad News it looks like the grab irons aren't molded on. Of course those aren't always trustworthy but fingers crossed that they're doing separate grabs.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 12, 2015 18:22:17 GMT -8
More info posted up on Walthers "New Products" section for the upcoming SD70ACE release. www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-19810I notice for these upcoming models, there seems to be a lack of ditch lights in the product announcement... Between the art on the product page and the tooling render that I saw in Model Railroad News it looks like the grab irons aren't molded on. Of course those aren't always trustworthy but fingers crossed that they're doing separate grabs. More likely no grab irons at that price. Which is fine with me.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Mar 13, 2015 13:13:01 GMT -8
Well I even got a nice email today from Overland Hobbies about the price for these engines. I am not running out to pre-order any of them but I was just surprised at the prices
Soundtraxx/DCC MSRP $199 - Overland Hobbies price is $154.98 Standard DC MSRP $129 - Overland Hobbies price $99.98
The thing about that too is Overland hobbies will not be the cheapest price out there so I would expect to see other online retailers at $10 less than what Overland Models has them for. Now if the quality is even slightly better than Bachmanns model well it may be a great option for other model railroaders as a cheaper GOOD LOOKING model. The only thing the Walthers model has to have is 1 of 3 things to make them slightly better is; See thru grilles, seperate grab irons or ditchlights with actual lights inside that work.
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 13, 2015 13:48:27 GMT -8
Well I even got a nice email today from Overland Hobbies about the price for these engines. I am not running out to pre-order any of them but I was just surprised at the prices Soundtraxx/DCC MSRP $199 - Overland Hobbies price is $154.98 Standard DC MSRP $129 - Overland Hobbies price $99.98 The thing about that too is Overland hobbies will not be the cheapest price out there so I would expect to see other online retailers at $10 less than what Overland Models has them for. Now if the quality is even slightly better than Bachmanns model well it may be a great option for other model railroaders as a cheaper GOOD LOOKING model. The only thing the Walthers model has to have is 1 of 3 things to make them slightly better is; See thru grilles, seperate grab irons or ditchlights with actual lights inside that work. Al The quality has to better than Bachmann's attempt. Hopefully, the grab irons will be on this model and if not, just give the modeler dimples to drill the proper holes in the right places. I would expect these to run fairly well and the price seems right for a lower detailed version. They seem to be offering only the comfort type cab but in both the high and low headlight. This cab would not be correct for the UP Heritage units. The side grills for the D/B seem to be closed. Larry
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Post by atsfan on Mar 13, 2015 15:57:12 GMT -8
My money is on no grab irons. Way too labor intensive and costly.
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Post by jbilbrey on Mar 13, 2015 18:14:49 GMT -8
More info posted up on Walthers "New Products" section for the upcoming SD70ACE release. www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-19810I notice for these upcoming models, there seems to be a lack of ditch lights in the product announcement... Thank you for posting the "New Products" update on the SD70ACe. I think it removes some of the guesswork as to what we'll probably be seeing.
I think they updated the product description between last night and tonight. Tonight, it is saying, "Upper or Lower Headlight Per Prototype" and "Working Front Ditch Lights" for the standard DC version.
James Bilbrey LaVeregne, TN
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Mar 13, 2015 19:35:30 GMT -8
More info posted up on Walthers "New Products" section for the upcoming SD70ACE release. www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-19810I notice for these upcoming models, there seems to be a lack of ditch lights in the product announcement... Thank you for posting the "New Products" update on the SD70ACe. I think it removes some of the guesswork as to what we'll probably be seeing.
I think they updated the product description between last night and tonight. Tonight, it is saying, "Upper or Lower Headlight Per Prototype" and "Working Front Ditch Lights" for the standard DC version.
James Bilbrey LaVeregne, TN
BOOM! Working front Ditchlights! That makes it already a better model at a realistic MSRP than Bachmann.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 14, 2015 18:50:41 GMT -8
I am hopeful,for this engine. I want to see pictures of the actual engine but it sounds like it might fill a need at the price point. It had better be better than Bachmann's attempt though.
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Post by stevef45 on Mar 14, 2015 22:06:13 GMT -8
Any of the drawings or pics show rear ditchlights? And is the tsunami the "value" kind like bachman or full tsunami that come in athearn and whats sold retail?
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Post by atsfan on Mar 15, 2015 5:24:02 GMT -8
Any of the drawings or pics show rear ditchlights? And is the tsunami the "value" kind like bachman or full tsunami that come in athearn and whats sold retail? At the price I suspect it is the value line version. Still, not bad though.
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Post by jbilbrey on Mar 15, 2015 8:45:15 GMT -8
I think we're still a few months away from seeing photos of the actual model. At this point I am just glad that the Walthers SD70ACe isn't a wild Internet rumor (like their P1K U25C proved to be). As others have said, I think it will prove to be a better value than the Bachmann model. It won't have the features/details of the Athearn or MTH SD70ACe's, and I doubt that areas such as the D/B sides will be tooled to be "see-through". I am happy to see that they are a least providing high- or low-mounted headlight options.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by Donnell Wells on Mar 15, 2015 10:57:15 GMT -8
Hello All,
The last locomotives that were purely a Walthers creation, as in not inherited from Life-Like, were the F40PH and the GP15. Both were marketed under the Trainline brand, and were budget-friendly. The tooling was a bit soft, not nearly as sharp or crisp or clean like Athearn, Atlas, Kato, Proto, Intermountain, etc., but still good enough to produce an acceptably decent rendering of the two EMD workhorses. Before these two, Walthers produced the Dash 8-40/40BW. They also were decent for their time, with tooling comparable to the latter. That said, I expect at least the same quality of tooling with their new SD70Ace. I know it won't be Genesis-quality, but I also don't expect it to be. I do like that they standardized the drives in all their locomotives so that they all run good together. And, the price is much more reasonable, and is where Bachmann should have been!
I have a couple Athearn Aces and I do like them a lot. I may get a pair of Walthers units for comparison in the undecorated low headlight configuration and detail and paint them myself. I personally like the earlier Aces, before the isolated cabs and low-mounted headlights. This announcement also kind of makes me wonder if they plan on releasing a budget-friendly ES44AC...
Donnell
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Post by curtmc on Mar 15, 2015 12:16:44 GMT -8
Yep, after some 50+ years of variety I think we are getting close to "they all look the same so why not make just a generic one" time - in which every manufacturer will be doing either generic "value priced" or detail oriented (at higher price) versions of the SD70ACe and the GEVO, trying to steal sales away from the others, and eek their way through a shrinking market where few will survive.
That's why Athearn reps have commented not to expect much more "updates" or changes in those units from them... "Too much competition" to make the costs of changes economically wise.
PS. I'm sitting here today watching videos of UP/CNW across Illinois in 1996... New SD9043MACs, new AC4400s, plenty of SD40-2s... a local using a GP7... with coal trains, stack trains, rack trains, lots of variety in paint and and units, and very little graffiti at all on the freight cars (maybe 1 car of every 40 with some small signs of vandalism). Sort of makes me wonder if I'll ever need another GEVO or SD70ACe...
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Post by atsfan on Mar 15, 2015 12:31:46 GMT -8
Yep, after some 50+ years of variety I think we are getting close to "they all look the same so why not make just a generic one" time - in which every manufacturer will be doing either generic "value priced" or detail oriented (at higher price) versions of the SD70ACe and the GEVO, trying to steal sales away from the others, and eek their way through a shrinking market where few will survive. That's why Athearn reps have commented not to expect much more "updates" or changes in those units from them... "Too much competition" to make the costs of changes economically wise. PS. I'm sitting here today watching videos of UP/CNW across Illinois in 1996... New SD9043MACs, new AC4400s, plenty of SD40-2s... a local using a GP7... with coal trains, stack trains, rack trains, lots of variety in paint and and units, and very little graffiti at all on the freight cars (maybe 1 car of every 40 with some small signs of vandalism). Sort of makes me wonder if I'll ever need another GEVO or SD70ACe... It is amazing to see how much less graffiti there was 20 years ago. I struggle with Era Discipline but it is a way to save $.
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Post by espeenut on Mar 15, 2015 13:26:23 GMT -8
Yep, after some 50+ years of variety I think we are getting close to "they all look the same so why not make just a generic one" time - in which every manufacturer will be doing either generic "value priced" or detail oriented (at higher price) versions of the SD70ACe and the GEVO, trying to steal sales away from the others, and eek their way through a shrinking market where few will survive. That's why Athearn reps have commented not to expect much more "updates" or changes in those units from them... "Too much competition" to make the costs of changes economically wise. PS. I'm sitting here today watching videos of UP/CNW across Illinois in 1996... New SD9043MACs, new AC4400s, plenty of SD40-2s... a local using a GP7... with coal trains, stack trains, rack trains, lots of variety in paint and and units, and very little graffiti at all on the freight cars (maybe 1 car of every 40 with some small signs of vandalism). Sort of makes me wonder if I'll ever need another GEVO or SD70ACe... ...totally agree with you Curt, my cut off time for modeling is prior to the arrival of GEVO's and SD70ACe's, and there's no graffiti on my roads. So SD70's, 90's and AC4400's are my newest power. It was, in my opinion, a much nicer looking period of time prior to the advent of mass tagging of any and all railroad equipment...today's railroads are quite literally an eyesore... cheers, Lorne
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