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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 21, 2016 17:12:28 GMT -8
Yes.I did want to see the final product before I made a decision. At some point in this hobby saying no is NOT a bad thing. I look around and see lots of stuff I just had to have. In reality I don't really need any of it. I still have three of Overland's 2005 run and some point in the future I will probably buy a few of these or another brass one. Once again nothing is staggered in this hobby when delivering a products.( a lot of other stuff I ordered came in last month) It comes in all at once and people are forced to foot the bill or go without. I chose the later. Saying no isn't necessarily bad, I just noticed your excitement after the announcement and I am a little bummed you didn't at least get one. You're our resident #1 big blow fan here on Atlas Rescue Forums! Yeah that about sums me up. I've been screaming like a turbine for years to get these done. It's seems that they will be a successful addition to the plethora of fine models available from many manufactures. When I started model railroading back in the mid 80's things were so crude as compared to today. I have always been drawn to these things. Last years been up and down financially. Just delivered at the most inopportune time(ironically my birthday). Really what big UP locomotives are left to do? DD35? C855? U50C? I think I read somewhere they will be re-running 18 for May 2017 delivery. Maybe I will pick one of those up.
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 22, 2016 5:45:25 GMT -8
Saying no isn't necessarily bad, I just noticed your excitement after the announcement and I am a little bummed you didn't at least get one. You're our resident #1 big blow fan here on Atlas Rescue Forums! Yeah that about sums me up. I've been screaming like a turbine for years to get these done. It's seems that they will be a successful addition to the plethora of fine models available from many manufactures. When I started model railroading back in the mid 80's things were so crude as compared to today. I have always been drawn to these things. Last years been up and down financially. Just delivered at the most inopportune time(ironically my birthday). Really what big UP locomotives are left to do? DD35? C855? U50C? I think I read somewhere they will be re-running 18 for May 2017 delivery. Maybe I will pick one of those up. I almost cancelled my order last month, but wanted to compare the new model to my Overland Turbines. I also wanted the sound and features that the new model has installed along with my curiosity of the new company's product. My problem with the model was the tender version that was on # 26 at the museum. Pictures show both types of tenders were on the 26 and most of the pictures show the 26 had the larger tender several years before retirement. Shane responded with the option of purchasing a replacement tender and I have reserved that tender so my turbine will be as I want it to look in the later days of active service. Scale Trains has my vote for accommodating customer requests and working to create a very nice model. Is it prefect??, No, but my Overland models have some problems also. Larry
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 8:58:05 GMT -8
My only issue is that when placing a "pre-order", at some point in time after the order is placed and before the models arrive, cancellation becomes impossible for some (perhaps not all) dealers. Then they are "stuck" with a model that perhaps they won't have another customer who will want to buy it.
One of my favorite train stores makes it absolutely clear that if/when I pre-order a big ticket item, cancellation of that order is not an option, or they will simply not pre-order anything else for that particular customer again.
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Post by jaygee on Sept 22, 2016 14:06:35 GMT -8
The one weak point I've discovered thus far is the dynamic brake grills....which tend to fly off. My #30 had two grills missing off the "A" unit. Thankfully, praise the Father, they were hiding in the very bottom of the foam backing; how they got so far down there is a complete mystery. The grills are slightly over size for the openings they're supposed to inhabit, and thus they bow slightly outward, and will eventually take off for who knows where! I talked to Dave about this issue this AM, and he says he'll get some extras coming from China right away quick. Once trimmed just a touch, they fit the openings quite well, but I'm looking for something better than superglue to reinstall these guys. As you might expect, the grills are temperature sensitive...which doesn't help matters.
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Post by onequiknova on Sept 22, 2016 15:04:11 GMT -8
The one thing that jumped out at me was the corner radius of the windshield. It looks nothing like the prototype. It almost has a 90 degree corner whereas the prototype has a curve that matches the roofline. That one thing just bugs the crap out of me. If you look past the photo etched widow frame in the picture posted above, the radius on the shell doesn't look so sharp. It looks to me like the etch doesn't fit that corner very well.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 23, 2016 4:18:03 GMT -8
If you look past the photo etched widow frame in the picture posted above, the radius on the shell doesn't look so sharp. It looks to me like the etch doesn't fit that corner very well. I noticed this too, the shell windshield opening looks pretty close following the radius of the outside of the body fairly well, but the window frame itself, has a fairly sharp corner. I've always been a stickler for windshield because they are so prominently visible.
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Hergy
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Post by Hergy on Sept 23, 2016 13:10:34 GMT -8
Jaygee, I had a similar problem with my #27. I used Aileens clear gel, which has similar properties to silicone. I'm thinking this will also help with the expansion and contraction due to temp changes.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 23, 2016 15:18:37 GMT -8
If you look past the photo etched widow frame in the picture posted above, the radius on the shell doesn't look so sharp. It looks to me like the etch doesn't fit that corner very well. I noticed this too, the shell windshield opening looks pretty close following the radius of the outside of the body fairly well, but the window frame itself, has a fairly sharp corner. I've always been a stickler for windshield because they are so prominently visible. I noticed that too with the one I inspected. There were about ten minor issues with paint and decoration, dodgy paint applications around the headlight for example. Issues that I don't want to deal with a $200 model let alone $800.
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Post by eh49 on Sept 23, 2016 15:31:42 GMT -8
I have a entirely different issue than those above. I unboxed the model and all looked fine, until I put them on the track to couple them up, the rear coupler on the A unit fell off, box and all. Low and behold there was no screw holding it on! Not in the box or on the trà ck.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 8:16:00 GMT -8
*Facepalm* I'm surprised anyone wants to produce models in this hobby with the high level of nitpicking and complaining I've seen. I once had a conversation with a guy that worked for a company that makes already assembled and detailed military models. They never had nearly the level of complaining in this hobby I was showing and explaining to him. Just like with everything else, rational people returned items or ask for a replacement part. There is a huge catch 22 in this hobby where high detail will most likely result in griping because of the little breakable parts that have been added on AND if you have low detail you also catch griping. Not to mention any issues with motors, etc. Some people are motivated to pick out things because they want the model but cannot justify the cost, others are motivated just to find issues with any and every model that comes off an assembly line and knock the company down a peg or two. No wonder there isn't haste by many to enter our hobby. SMH. I get a missing screw or grille and that can be ordered but some other mentioned levels of pickyness are just absurd. In the words of a modeler I spoke to recently, right out of the box models will never be like the real things. From picking up power through the wheels to the engineering obstacles that have to be worked around to downsize operational doors, windows, etc. Models will never be perfect, the more accurate gauge would be how close to real can they get and I think the Big Blow is very close to the prototype. Considering the complexity of the project, I was impressed it turned out as near flawless as it did.
I noticed this too, the shell windshield opening looks pretty close following the radius of the outside of the body fairly well, but the window frame itself, has a fairly sharp corner. I've always been a stickler for windshield because they are so prominently visible. I noticed that too with the one I inspected. There were about ten minor issues with paint and decoration, dodgy paint applications around the headlight for example. Issues that I don't want to deal with a $200 model let alone $800.
Big Blow, how much were the Overland Models Big Blows you have that were far less accurate and functional? How was that cost justified, yet this one isn't?
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Sept 24, 2016 8:59:48 GMT -8
I don't have my turbine yet, but from what I see it's a beautiful model, probably the best yet. But it's obviously not a perfect model. There are issues, and some of them appear to be correctable. Even in James' video, these are visible, if not mentioned. I would much rather know about these issues, and decide on my own if I can fix, live with, our do without. That's what a review should be.
This is a business for most manufacturers, and we're paying real money for their product. It's not nitpicking to identify the good and bad about their products so we can make informed decisions.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 9:06:08 GMT -8
I don't have my turbine yet, but from what I see it's a beautiful model, probably the best yet. But it's obviously not a perfect model. There are issues, and some of them appear to be correctable. Even in James' video, these are visible, if not mentioned. I would much rather know about these issues, and decide on my own if I can fix, live with, our do without. That's what a review should be. This is a business for most manufacturers, and we're paying real money for their product. It's not nitpicking to identify the good and bad about their products so we can make informed decisions.MM My issue isn't people finding issues, it's with people doing so with the motive of malice or to trash the product. If I didn't want you to see the fine details and imperfections, I would provide 360p or 480p video so that people with a better eye and not on a time crunch could never see imperfections. You said something key, which was good and bad. Some people just talk about the bad. I may not catch everything in the review but I can't match the level of pickiness of some when they can watch, pause video every few seconds at high definition. I get a model and my schedule allows at max 4-5 hours looking it over with the experience of someone in the hobby for 7 years. The HD video has to do the rest.. So yes, pros and cons should be talked about, debated, etc. But there's no need to trash a model over a few inaccuracies.
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Sept 24, 2016 9:29:52 GMT -8
So yes, pros and cons should be talked about, debated, etc. Â But there's no need to trash a model over a few inaccuracies. By the same token, there's no need to gloss over those inaccuracies. It is what it is. I see very few cases of posting with malice (none on this thread), however there have been many gushing over product and manufacturers. Scale Trains had positive reviews before they announced anything. There is plenty of positve discussion of the turbines. Pointing out a few issues does not mean the positive aspects are not recognized.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 10:01:58 GMT -8
So yes, pros and cons should be talked about, debated, etc. But there's no need to trash a model over a few inaccuracies. By the same token, there's no need to gloss over those inaccuracies. It is what it is. I see very few cases of posting with malice (none on this thread), however there have been many gushing over product and manufacturers. Scale Trains had positive reviews before they announced anything. There is plenty of positve discussion of the turbines. Pointing out a few issues does not mean the positive aspects are not recognized. You didn't see the thread before many posts were cleared out by moderators where there was some bashing of the product among other things. You're right, no need to gloss over or trash. It's called normalcy. I and a few others just found it interesting that the same people trashing this model were completely fine paying for a far less accurate model that cost several times more.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 24, 2016 10:12:14 GMT -8
The one thing that jumped out at me was the corner radius of the windshield. It looks nothing like the prototype. It almost has a 90 degree corner whereas the prototype has a curve that matches the roofline. That one thing just bugs the crap out of me. "nothing like the prototype"? YMMV Yes, this should be an angle different than the 90s at the other corners, but this is a complex area and to get the needed draft angles for the shell, this may have been one of those compromises chosen to deal with this in practical terms. Some prototype pics makes this more obvious. Then there are others where it looks like there might be a different windshield surround/trim involved, as in this shot: www.railpictures.net/photo/369887Still not 90, but even less noticeable, whether it's just the angle, sun glare, whatever. It's not even close to botched, like so many windshields are. If you want to see ugly, check one of the close-up pics on this baby, which sold for about twice what Scale Trains is asking for theirs, which actually comes painted (and glazed, plus DCC/sound). www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/032266/HO-OMI-1851-UP-Union-Pacific-3-Unit-Gas-Turbine-30If your world has to be perfect, you'll probably have to DIY. Until then, I think Scale Trains did pretty well here. And considering (not having one in hand) it's likely an etched part that may be upgradeable. The parts breakdown in the manual treats the entire windshield as one part, but suggests it's an assembly, so... Not too big a deal there, maybe, like finding a screw. Course that starts getting into DIY and the hands get shaky for some. Myself? My hands are always shaky, doesn't keep me from fixing and building stuff. One thought on James's earlier comments. People frequently nitpick models to demonstrate their expertise. Nothing wrong with that. But so much of the time they then feel obligated to suggest that the model fails because they noticed some difference between the model and the 1:1. That makes you a winner if you're playing Where's Waldo, but it seems to devolve into rather graceless condemnation of the other 99.99% of many good models (or maybe 99.999% in this case, since so much is involved). If that's the intent, take it FWIW. If it's not the intent, then maybe people should try to put some perspective and context together with their critique to offer a clearer picture. We live in an imperfect world and the prefectionists are often the most unhappy about that, although it changes nothing except everyone's stress level to beat one's head against a brick wall pointing that sort of limitless dissatisfaction out to the rest of us.
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Sept 24, 2016 10:16:01 GMT -8
I've followed this thread closely and didn't see any "trashing". Pointing out problems or preferring another model with different pros and cons is not trashing. Even if there were, ignoring or downplaying others legitimate concerns is just as much a problem.
Your trashing may be anothers normalcy. Your normalcy may be others gushing.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 10:31:31 GMT -8
The one thing that jumped out at me was the corner radius of the windshield. It looks nothing like the prototype. It almost has a 90 degree corner whereas the prototype has a curve that matches the roofline. That one thing just bugs the crap out of me. "nothing like the prototype"? YMMV Yes, this should be an angle different than the 90s at the other corners, but this is a complex area and to get the needed draft angles for the shell, this may have been one of those compromises chosen to deal with this in practical terms. Some prototype pics makes this more obvious. Then there are others where it looks like there might be a different windshield surround/trim involved, as in this shot: www.railpictures.net/photo/369887Still not 90, but even less noticeable, whether it's just the angle, sun glare, whatever. It's not even close to botched, like so many windshields are. If you want to see ugly, check one of the close-up pics on this baby, which sold for about twice what Scale Trains is asking for theirs, which actually comes painted (and glazed, plus DCC/sound). www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/032266/HO-OMI-1851-UP-Union-Pacific-3-Unit-Gas-Turbine-30If your world has to be perfect, you'll probably have to DIY. Until then, I think Scale Trains did pretty well here. And considering (not having one in hand) it's likely an etched part that may be upgradeable. The parts breakdown in the manual treats the entire windshield as one part, but suggests it's an assembly, so... Not too big a deal there, maybe, like finding a screw. Course that starts getting into DIY and the hands get shaky for some. Myself? My hands are always shaky, doesn't keep me from fixing and building stuff. One thought on James's earlier comments. People frequently nitpick models to demonstrate their expertise. Nothing wrong with that. But so much of the time they then feel obligated to suggest that the model fails because they noticed some difference between the model and the 1:1. That makes you a winner if you're playing Where's Waldo, but it seems to devolve into rather graceless condemnation of the other 99.99% of many good models (or maybe 99.999% in this case, since so much is involved). If that's the intent, take it FWIW. If it's not the intent, then maybe people should try to put some perspective and context together with their critique to offer a clearer picture. We live in an imperfect world and the prefectionists are often the most unhappy about that, although it changes nothing except everyone's stress level to beat one's head against a brick wall pointing that sort of limitless dissatisfaction out to the rest of us. Very well said. But be careful, you may be accused of being too easy going to the >1% of people who are displeased with the Scale Trains version. At over 5 tons of sold product, there must be a lot of people pleased out there.
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Sept 24, 2016 10:32:28 GMT -8
One thought on James's earlier comments. People frequently nitpick models to demonstrate their expertise. Nothing wrong with that. But so much of the time they then feel obligated to suggest that the model fails because they noticed some difference between the model and the 1:1. That makes you a winner if you're playing Where's Waldo, but it seems to devolve into rather graceless condemnation of the other 99.99% of many good models (or maybe 99.999% in this case, since so much is involved). If that's the intent, take it FWIW. If it's not the intent, then maybe people should try to put some perspective and context together with their critique to offer a clearer picture. We live in an imperfect world and the prefectionists are often the most unhappy about that, although it changes nothing except everyone's stress level to beat one's head against a brick wall pointing that sort of limitless dissatisfaction out to the rest of us. Most of the people I know and see pointing out issues aren't perfectionists, they just want to know what is right and wrong. This often leads to better models, either from the manufacturer or through modeling. I've never understood why some people are so threatened of knowledge or discussion of imperfections in commercial models. If you're happy with the model, what does it hurt?
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 10:40:02 GMT -8
One thought on James's earlier comments. People frequently nitpick models to demonstrate their expertise. Nothing wrong with that. But so much of the time they then feel obligated to suggest that the model fails because they noticed some difference between the model and the 1:1. That makes you a winner if you're playing Where's Waldo, but it seems to devolve into rather graceless condemnation of the other 99.99% of many good models (or maybe 99.999% in this case, since so much is involved). If that's the intent, take it FWIW. If it's not the intent, then maybe people should try to put some perspective and context together with their critique to offer a clearer picture. We live in an imperfect world and the prefectionists are often the most unhappy about that, although it changes nothing except everyone's stress level to beat one's head against a brick wall pointing that sort of limitless dissatisfaction out to the rest of us. Most of the people I know and see pointing out issues aren't perfectionists, they just want to know what is right and wrong. This often leads to better models, either from the manufacturer or through modeling. I've never understood why some people are so threatened of knowledge or discussion of imperfections in commercial models. If you're happy with the model, what does it hurt? I'm fine with product criticism and often find errors myself in the reviews. It's just sometimes I wish the entire model railroading community were more happy than crabby. The focus sometimes seems to be on the cons. But that's life I suppose. I relate it to doing your job 99.9% right but the one or two things you do wrong your boss focuses on and will not let you live down. That is a poor existence for a work environment. Then you have this hobby that is supposed to be happy go lucky but when indulging in forums is often full of gripes. You are right though, looking back to what is currently posted no one has gotten out of hand. I do still question how an overland models version can command a price at least 3x as much as the museum quality yet the people that bought that are displeased with the scale trains version. I see a little motive there. One guy at a train show was really ripping the model then finally admitted he was upset that his brass model was going to lose half its value. That was the root cause of his gripes.
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Sept 24, 2016 10:49:26 GMT -8
 Very well said.  But be careful, you may be accused of gushing to the >1% of people who are displeased with the Scale Trains version.  At over 5 tons of sold product, there must be a lot of people pleased out there. For the record, I'm very happy with what I have from Scale Trains, have a turbine on the way, and other products from them reserved. I'm happy they appear successful and look forward to more products from them. At the same time I'm not expecting them to be perfect, and appreciate knowing any issues.
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 24, 2016 11:17:20 GMT -8
Ya know, there are manufacturing limitations when scaling down certain things in model form. Even the best manufacturers make little compromises all the time to work around tooling/casting/manufacturing limitations inherent to making miniature models, little things they don't necessarily tell you about or publicize, but are par for the course dealing with model making.
Perhaps due to shell thickness or other production/manufacturing issues with the tooling in that area of the shell (releasing the castings from the mould, how the tooling bits go together around the front nose/windshield/roof, minimum thickness requirements in order for that area to cast properly to cut down on waste and rework), they may have not been able to tool as generous a radius to the front cab windows. And the glazing etchings would have been manufactured to reflect the changes necessary to the shell.
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Post by llxlocomotives on Sept 24, 2016 13:55:34 GMT -8
From what I see the model is fantastic. It seems to be difficult to get some of the tiny parts to stay on in the transition from China to you. Rapido talks about that, but even so I have had three models with parts floating around in the packaging.
This is the museum quality, which opens them up to a lot of potential rocks. Particularly with this price point. I am interested in Jims review, because I want to see how they do on a random model, not one they have chosen for a show.
I am not interested in this particular model. It is an example of applying a great technology to the wrong application. If it were repeated to day it would be a failure as well, you just wouldn't hear it. If you work down town in a major city, you likely have a few 6000 hp gas turbine producing power to run the offices on your area. You just don't hear them. We came up with a lot of noise reduction features since this product was attempted. There are a number of issues with hauling trains that a GT is not suited to handle.
Based on what I have seen from Scale Trains, when they produce a model that is in my interest group I will be buying one. Hopefully it will not br double this cost at that time.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 24, 2016 14:04:28 GMT -8
Most of the people I know and see pointing out issues aren't perfectionists, they just want to know what is right and wrong. This often leads to better models, either from the manufacturer or through modeling. I've never understood why some people are so threatened of knowledge or discussion of imperfections in commercial models. If you're happy with the model, what does it hurt? If you want to state things in "right" and "wrong" terms, it doesn't leave much in between to not be a perfectionist. Some folks may see it that way And if the only comment made is it's "wrong" because it's too much trouble to acknowledge the hard work and effort that went into a model, well that's your privilege. It's just not constructive criticism. And if the point was commenting is supposed to improve things, then one would think it would be made in the form of "You did pretty good here, but to be outstanding that curve needs fixed..." Sounds a lot better that saying it looks like crap and is far more likely to be taken seriously? And what is the solution? I held out that possibility, but it's also the sort of thing that 99 out of 100 will likely never notice, even if someone on the internet makes it a point to make a stink about it. Does Scale Trains spend that money fixing problems most will never see as an issue or do they spend it making more trains that are pretty darn good products? I don't see any personal threat in poorly thought out criticism other than it acting to discourage people from building new models. Given most seem to want to do no more than take things out of the box, careful what ground you plow here. Do you want a critique to encourage mfg's to do better -- or just throw in the towel? I can't do anything about that other than to note that people who seem most motivated to want better -- at least that's the excuse they make when many practice the "hand grenade" sort of criticism we see far too often -- are sort of shooting themselves in the foot here if they can't be troubled to throw in an encouraging word along with noting where things fall short in their eyes. Carried far enough, a bunch of folks are going to have to learn how to build stuff. I suspect sales numbers refute the tiny tsunami of criticism over the issues I've heard and seen so far, which is a good thing, because that means more turbines.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 24, 2016 14:04:45 GMT -8
*Facepalm* I'm surprised anyone wants to produce models in this hobby with the high level of nitpicking and complaining I've seen. I once had a conversation with a guy that worked for a company that makes already assembled and detailed military models. They never had nearly the level of complaining in this hobby I was showing and explaining to him. Just like with everything else, rational people returned items or ask for a replacement part. There is a huge catch 22 in this hobby where high detail will most likely result in griping because of the little breakable parts that have been added on AND if you have low detail you also catch griping. Not to mention any issues with motors, etc. Some people are motivated to pick out things because they want the model but cannot justify the cost, others are motivated just to find issues with any and every model that comes off an assembly line and knock the company down a peg or two. No wonder there isn't haste by many to enter our hobby. SMH. I get a missing screw or grille and that can be ordered but some other mentioned levels of pickyness are just absurd. In the words of a modeler I spoke to recently, right out of the box models will never be like the real things. From picking up power through the wheels to the engineering obstacles that have to be worked around to downsize operational doors, windows, etc. Models will never be perfect, the more accurate gauge would be how close to real can they get and I think the Big Blow is very close to the prototype. Considering the complexity of the project, I was impressed it turned out as near flawless as it did.
I noticed that too with the one I inspected. There were about ten minor issues with paint and decoration, dodgy paint applications around the headlight for example. Issues that I don't want to deal with a $200 model let alone $800. Big Blow, how much were the Overland Models Big Blows you have that were far less accurate and functional? How was that cost justified, yet this one isn't? For the record when I bought my turbines there was no way to justify what I paid, like most stuff in this hobby.I sold A LOT of stuff to get those and I worked at a hobby shop and bought them 10% above cost. At the time it was what it was.You wanted a turbine you bought brass. For the record this model is less expensive than my first unpainted brass one that I bought back in 1990 which has long since departed the roster and was loaded with so many inaccuracies(slope of the windshield for starters) . I inspected two at two different stores and the one I mentioned earlier in this post has issues and these were not pointed out by me(its going back "B" unit is DOA). Now the second I inspected today was a much different animal. The minor stuff that is fixable( step fallen off) and no dodgy paint application and scratches and If I had a way to buy it I WOULD. Do you realize how upset I would be if I had went through with my order and received three models like the one I mentioned in my earlier post? Would you bought what I have seen and lived with it? I clearly said that I would by one of these down the road and AM PLEASED OVERALL, but I am not buying it sight unseen under the pre-order model.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 24, 2016 14:14:21 GMT -8
*Facepalm* I'm surprised anyone wants to produce models in this hobby with the high level of nitpicking and complaining I've seen. I once had a conversation with a guy that worked for a company that makes already assembled and detailed military models. They never had nearly the level of complaining in this hobby I was showing and explaining to him. Just like with everything else, rational people returned items or ask for a replacement part. There is a huge catch 22 in this hobby where high detail will most likely result in griping because of the little breakable parts that have been added on AND if you have low detail you also catch griping. Not to mention any issues with motors, etc. Some people are motivated to pick out things because they want the model but cannot justify the cost, others are motivated just to find issues with any and every model that comes off an assembly line and knock the company down a peg or two. No wonder there isn't haste by many to enter our hobby. SMH. I get a missing screw or grille and that can be ordered but some other mentioned levels of pickyness are just absurd. In the words of a modeler I spoke to recently, right out of the box models will never be like the real things. From picking up power through the wheels to the engineering obstacles that have to be worked around to downsize operational doors, windows, etc. Models will never be perfect, the more accurate gauge would be how close to real can they get and I think the Big Blow is very close to the prototype. Considering the complexity of the project, I was impressed it turned out as near flawless as it did.
Big Blow, how much were the Overland Models Big Blows you have that were far less accurate and functional? How was that cost justified, yet this one isn't? For the record when I bought my turbines there was no way to justify what I paid, like most stuff in this hobby.I sold A LOT of stuff to get those and I worked at a hobby shop and bought them 10% above cost. At the time it was what it was.You wanted a turbine you bought brass. For the record this model is less expensive than my first unpainted brass one that I bought back in 1990 which has long since departed the roster and was loaded with so many inaccuracies(slope of the windshield for starters) . I inspected two at two different stores and the one I mentioned earlier in this post has issues and these were not pointed out by me(its going back "B" unit is DOA). Now the second I inspected today was a much different animal. The minor stuff that is fixable( step fallen off) and If I had a way to buy it I WOULD. Do you realize how upset I would be if I had went through with my order and received three models like the one I mentioned in my earlier post? Would you bought what I have seen and lived with it? To answer your question, no I wouldn't accept the model with a DOA B unit, I would ask for a repair or replacement. I would fix a step ladder though, even at the $725 price point because things happen. But out of my unit, the one my cousin bought and the one a friend bought (all three museum quality locomotives), I haven't heard of anything wrong. I am sure with 5 tons of product there may be an absolute abomination of a museum quality locomotive out there and others with issues but that's just the law of averages. But overall what's delivered seems solid.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 24, 2016 14:16:50 GMT -8
For the record when I bought my turbines there was no way to justify what I paid, like most stuff in this hobby.I sold A LOT of stuff to get those and I worked at a hobby shop and bought them 10% above cost. At the time it was what it was.You wanted a turbine you bought brass. For the record this model is less expensive than my first unpainted brass one that I bought back in 1990 which has long since departed the roster and was loaded with so many inaccuracies(slope of the windshield for starters) . I inspected two at two different stores and the one I mentioned earlier in this post has issues and these were not pointed out by me(its going back "B" unit is DOA). Now the second I inspected today was a much different animal. The minor stuff that is fixable( step fallen off) and If I had a way to buy it I WOULD. Do you realize how upset I would be if I had went through with my order and received three models like the one I mentioned in my earlier post? Would you bought what I have seen and lived with it? To answer your question, no I wouldn't accept the model with a DOA B unit, I would ask for a repair or replacement. I would fix a step ladder though, even at the $725 price point because things happen. But out of my unit, the one my cousin bought and the one a friend bought (all three museum quality locomotives), I haven't heard of anything wrong. I am sure with 5 tons of product there may be an absolute abomination of a museum quality locomotive out there and others with issues but that's just the law of averages and but overall what's delivered seems solid. Yes I agree. That's why I like to watch your videos. I like to see what I'm getting before I buy. And in all honesty the brass ones aren't practical to run around my carpet layout. One thing I did noticed the top end speed seemed slow on the one I had on the layout at the store. Is that adjustable?
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Post by mlehman on Sept 24, 2016 14:20:35 GMT -8
Ya know, there are manufacturing limitations when scaling down certain things in model form. Even the best manufacturers make little compromises all the time to work around tooling/casting/manufacturing limitations inherent to making miniature models, little things they don't necessarily tell you about or publicize, but are par for the course dealing with model making. Perhaps due to shell thickness or other production/manufacturing issues with the tooling in that area of the shell (releasing the castings from the mould, how the tooling bits go together around the front nose/windshield/roof, minimum thickness requirements in order for that area to cast properly to cut down on waste and rework), they may have not been able to tool as generous a radius to the front cab windows. And the glazing etchings would have been manufactured to reflect the changes necessary to the shell. Well stated and given that this is a known source of trouble with moldings because of the nature of what we model, most likely the source of the issue. And I don't doubt there were meeting where a lot of work went into trying to get it looking as good as possible I think part of the issue is that the model windshield is cut from flat material and not molded, which would be considerably more expensive. The real windshield has a slight curve to it in two different directions, so slight that the economics of molding it likely didn't make sense. It would likely have not solved the issue with mold parting that is the culprit but might have disguised the needed compromise better. Hard to say, as we're talking thousandths of an inch in a 3D relationship that is tiny to begin with.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 24, 2016 15:30:31 GMT -8
I am sure with 5 tons of product there may be an absolute abomination of a museum quality locomotive out there and others with issues but that's just the law of averages. But overall what's delivered seems solid. Far from an abomination. This particular one didn't meet my expectations for a $725 model. If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a walking dead man. i may pick one up at Train Fest. But I must make some points I am elated that I finally got my wish for my favorite locomotive in a ready to Run DCC model I will be buying one/two somewhere down the road I have bought the Scale Trains tenders and am pleased with like the turbine. I have a train all set for my turbine when I buy one. I love the sound of the turbine I want to see what I'm buying first
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 24, 2016 16:04:04 GMT -8
To answer your question, no I wouldn't accept the model with a DOA B unit, I would ask for a repair or replacement. I would fix a step ladder though, even at the $725 price point because things happen. But out of my unit, the one my cousin bought and the one a friend bought (all three museum quality locomotives), I haven't heard of anything wrong. I am sure with 5 tons of product there may be an absolute abomination of a museum quality locomotive out there and others with issues but that's just the law of averages and but overall what's delivered seems solid. Yes I agree. That's why I like to watch your videos. I like to see what I'm getting before I buy. And in all honesty the brass ones aren't practical to run around my carpet layout. One thing I did noticed the top end speed seemed slow on the one I had on the layout at the store. Is that adjustable? The top end should be adjustable with cv settings. Cv 6 seems to be around 50, and cv5 is usually around 180 or so, if the decoders are like the other loksound decoders I've used.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 24, 2016 16:08:43 GMT -8
Yes I agree. That's why I like to watch your videos. I like to see what I'm getting before I buy. And in all honesty the brass ones aren't practical to run around my carpet layout. One thing I did noticed the top end speed seemed slow on the one I had on the layout at the store. Is that adjustable? The top end should be adjustable with cv settings. Cv 6 seems to be around 50, and cv5 is usually around 180 or so, if the decoders are like the other loksound decoders I've used. Thanks. We were wondering at the store. I'd like to get it adjusted to run somewhere in the 65MPH -70MPH range. I have some video and these things would fly. i wonder how they MU with other manufactures locomotives.
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