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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 20, 2016 15:08:42 GMT -8
I received my Museum Quality Turbine Tuesday afternoon and spent most of the evening doing a review. This review is LONG but that is mostly because of all the ground breaking features. Enjoy and feel free to tell me what you think!
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Post by dharris on Sept 20, 2016 17:37:06 GMT -8
WOW! Is what I am thinking.
The horn alone is the best sounding horn ever.
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Post by mvlandsw on Sept 20, 2016 17:37:47 GMT -8
What are the thick panels on both sides of the headlight? They look like they are about a scale 1" thick.
Is the front coupler copied from the prototype? It looks strange.
What size wire are the grab irons? They look oversize.
Are there hooks to attach the tender truck safety chains or do you have to make them if your curves will permit their use?
Life Like Proto 2000 diesels had operating cab doors some time ago.
Mark Vinski
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 20, 2016 18:01:43 GMT -8
What are the thick panels on both sides of the headlight? They look like they are about a scale 1" thick. Is the front coupler copied from the prototype? It looks strange. What size wire are the grab irons? They look oversize. Are there hooks to attach the tender truck safety chains or do you have to make them if your curves will permit their use? Life Like Proto 2000 diesels had operating cab doors some time ago. Mark Vinski Those are riveted panels on the nose, not sure of the purpose. They might be an inch thick on the real thing. They look better from this angle: Here is the real thing, looking a little more streamlined but who knows how many coats of paint were piled on. Plus you've got to consider it may be difficult with the manufacturing process to nail that slight difference and still not look molded in. Also couplers are close to scale but still aren't perfectly sized like Sergeant.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 21, 2016 3:22:11 GMT -8
What are the thick panels on both sides of the headlight? They look like they are about a scale 1" thick. Those plates were to give access to the lifting lugs I believe. When delivered the plates were not there. I have photograph of number 8 late in its career without the hatches.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 21, 2016 5:09:47 GMT -8
James does a great job reviewing models; the significant thing for me which is missing that I have traditionally also read reviews for is detailed knowledge of the prototype which some reviewers add in both for background and as a basis to compare the model to the prototype for fidelity. These are things I particularly read reviews for. That said, James reviews are user friendly for the purposes of getting a close up look at a new model and a chance to see the features and see it run, and if it has sound, hear it. Those are all very useful things. For the other information, such as the prototype and how it compares, that's where other reviews will come in handy.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 21, 2016 5:51:10 GMT -8
That was some marathon reviewing, James. Thanks for the thorough overlook.
Scale Trains has a really impressive product there with some amazing features. The light package is tasty. The auto-sense for flange and frog sound is remarkable. That so much moves or can be connected (all those hoses and lines!) kind of boggles. I'm definitely not a UP modeler, but this leaves me wanting one. I don't have the budget, but I also think that it's a real value for those who do. No one will miss brass much with products like these that package everything possible in an accurate and functional way.
On the slight shudders at speed step one, gotta remember the unit is not yet broke in. I suspect it'll smooth out after some runtime.
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 21, 2016 5:53:10 GMT -8
Thanks James for the review!!!
Larry
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Post by jaygee on Sept 21, 2016 6:15:48 GMT -8
I'm putting Kadee #118 couplers on all my ST Turbines.....and painting them a dusty light gray. Do this on my other Turbines to great effect !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 8:38:35 GMT -8
One of the challenges with designing and producing HO scale models is that one has to allow for paint film thickness. If all HO rivet heads were modeled to scale--guess what--you couldn't see them through the average professional quality paint job. The various manufacturers have learned that (the hard way) and deliberately (but slightly) oversize the rivet heads so that they can still be seen through the typical paint film thickness.
I suspect that the appearance of the nose plates is the way it is so that they could be absolutely sure the edges would still be visible through the typical paint film thickness.
It is a bit disingenuous to criticize the manufacturer for such a minute detail.
Even if grab irons are scale width stainless steel (for strength as opposed to using brass), by the time they are painted they will appear to be slightly too thick. Again, I do not think it fair to criticize the manufacturer for that. Then there is the durability factor. Most people want to actually be able to handle their models without details breaking, bending too easily or falling off, so some grabs may be slightly thick. So what?
If the poster doesn't like Scale Trains model, then go find and buy the brass ones instead. Good luck with that.
"Scale models" almost by definition are compromises. Not everything can be scaled down perfectly. Deal with it.
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Post by ambluco on Sept 21, 2016 9:31:52 GMT -8
As Jim Fitch said, there is still a place in reviews for how accurate a model is. Read a magazine review and they tell you the model was compared to measurements in MR Cyclopedia or a 1/82 issue of RMC, for example. Wheelbase was off, length was correct. Number of ribs correct. Hand brake too high. Those thing that lead modelers to determine if they can live with those issues.
Even Cody's Office just points at the model with a skewer and says it has wire grabs, all-wheel pickup, or an anti-climber. I can see all that already.
I think videos are useful for hearing a model run with sound or even just the motor (maybe the motor sounds like blender when running) or to show gear noise is low. But after that, without prototype comparisons, you aren't adding more than what are in photos. And you don't need prototype photos and worrying about permission. The mags don't always have proto photos. They just tell you where they looked.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2016 10:50:40 GMT -8
Moving back to the model: Looking through the screens on the side of the A unit, you see nothing. On the prototype, there's a big ole air compressor in there, plus a drive shaft for it and the cooling fan and also a "Turbine Water Tank". At least, that's what's on the UP diagram. Here's a shot of the vertical connection to the fan. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=149299One of the panels on the roof of the B unit was installed crooked. Hopefully it can be peeled off and reapplied: The doors and door supports on the B unit are pretty clunky. Perhaps they could have been done finer and still worked. Perhaps not. Perhaps if they were photoengravings......... A really nice model, overall. I surely would have liked one. Or more. But for me, with this big guy, you're in or you're out. Of Turbineness. And they just didn't run in my neck of the woods. However. Note that the trucks were reused to make U50C's. Not the most lasting of diesels, but THOSE I'd definitely be into. And speaking of sound: I've got a Lionel turbine from the olden days (purchased before I had that Turbineness revelation noted above). With sound. Turbine sounds get old REAL QUICK. An Alco S2 I can listen to its burbling all day long. A turbine would drive me nuts. Of course, I'd HAVE mine with sound. I just wouldn't have it ON very often. Ed
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 21, 2016 10:58:57 GMT -8
Sheesh. The review was already a half hour long, and some people want him to pull out a micrometer, prototype photos, research showing all the background behind a model, and a host of other stuff a simple Google search would net anybody that wanted to know, without adding another hour to an already-long video. The review was fine as it is, if I want to know more, I have Google, and I'm not afraid to use it.
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 21, 2016 11:02:20 GMT -8
Ed, I had a single Athearn turbine with sound, and I got rid of it because of the airport drone. I think after it starts, a turbine is the most noisy, boring thing I could think of listening to. What all that means is, I agree with you.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2016 11:18:31 GMT -8
Thanks to bnsf971, I DID do a Google search and found this: It's interesting (to me, anyway) because it has a different layout than the UP diagram--it's got the diesel engine slid back to where the side grills are. Ed
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Post by riogrande on Sept 21, 2016 11:35:36 GMT -8
M One of the panels on the roof of the B unit was installed crooked. Hopefully it can be peeled off and reapplied: View AttachmentThe doors and door supports on the B unit are pretty clunky. Perhaps they could have been done finer and still worked. Perhaps not. Perhaps if they were photoengravings......... A really nice model, overall. I surely would have liked one. Or more. But for me, with this big guy, you're in or you're out. Of Turbineness. And they just didn't run in my neck of the woods. Ed, I agree, these turbines are very nice but I can't afford an expensive model that's out of my genre; heck, I've got too wide a time frame as it is. As far as fit and finish, I expect since these are made in china, depending on the QAQC procedures, there will be a certain amount of crooked parts - it just seems endemic to human application of tiny parts. I noticed the operating doors on the sides and dare I say it reminded me a bit of the old Athearn box cars with the large tracks and claws on those with the doors which open and close. It may be that it is difficult to make operating doors without being oversized?
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Post by cf7 on Sept 21, 2016 11:54:42 GMT -8
The one thing that jumped out at me was the corner radius of the windshield. It looks nothing like the prototype. It almost has a 90 degree corner whereas the prototype has a curve that matches the roofline. That one thing just bugs the crap out of me.
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 21, 2016 12:17:06 GMT -8
Thanks to bnsf971, I DID do a Google search and found this: It's interesting (to me, anyway) because it has a different layout than the UP diagram--it's got the diesel engine slid back to where the side grills are. Ed Glad I could help expand your horizons.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 21, 2016 12:40:15 GMT -8
The one thing that jumped out at me was the corner radius of the windshield. It looks nothing like the prototype. It almost has a 90 degree corner whereas the prototype has a curve that matches the roofline. That one thing just bugs the crap out of me. I see what you mean - I pulled up a the photo on the Union Pacific 18 Wiki with a good front shot and compared it with the model and there is more of a curve on the windshield on the upper outer corners on the prototype. Depending on the angle you view the front of the ST turbine, the windshield seems to have less curve, although it has some. I guess that's one of those "in the eye of the beholder" things if that's an issue or not. If I were ST, I might look into tweaking that a bit.
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Post by scl1234 on Sept 21, 2016 13:25:13 GMT -8
Looks like MB Kleins has sold out of the non-sound Big Blows within one hour...half of them will turn up on ebay.
Thanks for the excellent review James.
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Post by grahamline on Sept 21, 2016 13:52:38 GMT -8
Getting the details on the "face" of the model is pretty important and I'm surprised, given their other offerings, that ScaleTrains was OK with the pair of access panels up by the headlight housing.
RioGrande said "As far as fit and finish, I expect since these are made in china, depending on the QAQC procedures, there will be a certain amount of crooked parts - it just seems endemic to human application of tiny parts.
I noticed the operating doors on the sides and dare I say it reminded me a bit of the old Athearn box cars with the large tracks and claws on those with the doors which open and close. It may be that it is difficult to make operating doors without being oversized?"
Some of the parts placement issues are down to design considerations. You don't see crooked parts on Kadee cars, and all of the Tangent cars I've received have been fine. If lugs and pins are in the proper places, it's impossible to get a piece on crooked. Take a look at an Accurail underframe -- there is only one way it can be assembled, outside of sledgehammer tactics.
Yeah, I think most operating features are kind of incompatible with HO in styrene. Have been trying to build some HO boxcars with the old Signode paper grain doors that Jaeger produces, and most of the cars don't look too great with open doors unless you hog out the opening and install an accessory market door.
ScaleTrains seems to be committed to getting it right, at least.
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 21, 2016 14:00:59 GMT -8
Looks like MB Kleins has sold out of the non-sound Big Blows within one hour...half of them will turn up on ebay. Thanks for the excellent review James. That will be interesting to find out if they bring high prices. Larry
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 21, 2016 14:09:48 GMT -8
Looks like MB Kleins has sold out of the non-sound Big Blows within one hour...half of them will turn up on ebay. Thanks for the excellent review James. That will be interesting to find out if they bring high prices. Larry Well Modeltrainstuff is already charging $75 over scale trains price, I can't imagine how much they will get on ebay once they're scarce. I predict around $900 or more for certain road numbers.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 21, 2016 14:34:27 GMT -8
That will be interesting to find out if they bring high prices. Larry Well Modeltrainstuff is already charging $75 over scale trains price, I can't imagine how much they will get on ebay once they're scarce. I predict around $900 or more for certain road numbers. Your probably right. I for one cancelled all the ones I had on order. Have not intent of frothing If I am unable to get one for a decent price sometime in the future so be it. I will not be buying one of these sight unseen from ANY online retailer. Too many parts to break anyway.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 21, 2016 15:12:41 GMT -8
Well Modeltrainstuff is already charging $75 over scale trains price, I can't imagine how much they will get on ebay once they're scarce. I predict around $900 or more for certain road numbers. Your probably right. I for one cancelled all the ones I had on order. Have not intent of frothing If I am unable to get one for a decent price sometime in the future so be it. I will not be buying one of these sight unseen from ANY online retailer. Too many parts to break anyway. Wait.... You cancelled all yours? Why? I thought you were the most excited of all of us for these. Your user ID is big blow even....what was the reason for the cancellation? If you ordered through scale trains direct your price was fixed at $725 plus free shipping. Was it because you want to see on in a hobby shop before purchase?
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Post by dharris on Sept 21, 2016 15:34:09 GMT -8
Well Modeltrainstuff is already charging $75 over scale trains price, I can't imagine how much they will get on ebay once they're scarce. I predict around $900 or more for certain road numbers. Your probably right. I for one cancelled all the ones I had on order. Have not intent of frothing If I am unable to get one for a decent price sometime in the future so be it. I will not be buying one of these sight unseen from ANY online retailer. Too many parts to break anyway. Big Blow cancelled the Big Blow ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 16:01:57 GMT -8
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 21, 2016 16:09:19 GMT -8
Your probably right. I for one cancelled all the ones I had on order. Have not intent of frothing If I am unable to get one for a decent price sometime in the future so be it. I will not be buying one of these sight unseen from ANY online retailer. Too many parts to break anyway. Wait.... You cancelled all yours? Why? I thought you were the most excited of all of us for these. Your user ID is big blow even....what was the reason for the cancellation? If you ordered through scale trains direct your price was fixed at $725 plus free shipping. Was it because you want to see on in a hobby shop before purchase? Yes.I did want to see the final product before I made a decision. At some point in this hobby saying no is NOT a bad thing. I look around and see lots of stuff I just had to have. In reality I don't really need any of it. I still have three of Overland's 2005 run and some point in the future I will probably buy a few of these or another brass one. Once again nothing is staggered in this hobby when delivering a products.( a lot of other stuff I ordered came in last month) It comes in all at once and people are forced to foot the bill or go without. I chose the later.
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Post by bigblow69 on Sept 21, 2016 16:12:56 GMT -8
Your probably right. I for one cancelled all the ones I had on order. Have not intent of frothing If I am unable to get one for a decent price sometime in the future so be it. I will not be buying one of these sight unseen from ANY online retailer. Too many parts to break anyway. Big Blow cancelled the Big Blow ? Yes. Stranger things have happened.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Sept 21, 2016 16:53:37 GMT -8
Wait.... You cancelled all yours? Why? I thought you were the most excited of all of us for these. Your user ID is big blow even....what was the reason for the cancellation? If you ordered through scale trains direct your price was fixed at $725 plus free shipping. Was it because you want to see on in a hobby shop before purchase? Yes.I did want to see the final product before I made a decision. At some point in this hobby saying no is NOT a bad thing. I look around and see lots of stuff I just had to have. In reality I don't really need any of it. I still have three of Overland's 2005 run and some point in the future I will probably buy a few of these or another brass one. Once again nothing is staggered in this hobby when delivering a products.( a lot of other stuff I ordered came in last month) It comes in all at once and people are forced to foot the bill or go without. I chose the later. Saying no isn't necessarily bad, I just noticed your excitement after the announcement and I am a little bummed you didn't at least get one. You're our resident #1 big blow fan here on Atlas Rescue Forums!
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