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Post by ambluco on Nov 17, 2016 17:17:50 GMT -8
Edward, Go back and read page 1. Another shop said past orders are being honored. So if that is the future, it looks fine. It might be the future, but I've got orders with my local I made in the PAST. And I note Shane didn't mention that they would honor those orders. So things are being rearranged. And details will be revealed later. Or not. Swell. Ed
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Post by dharris on Nov 17, 2016 17:34:23 GMT -8
Business is so good they are ....SELECTIVE ........as to who and who cannot sell their product. If my LHS is not good enough todo business with you or any other MFG with that snobbish attitude then I just wont purchase your product. I support my local or nearest hobby shop. I am going to have to report this type of behaviour to Mr Trump and you will all be fired LOL.Steve Way too much drama. Buying the products is easy. In less time than it took to complain about it, you can order tank cars.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 17, 2016 18:37:23 GMT -8
So if that is the future, it looks fine. It might be the future, but I've got orders with my local I made in the PAST. And I note Shane didn't mention that they would honor those orders. So things are being rearranged. And details will be revealed later. Or not. Swell. Ed Ed, For retailers we are no longer accepting new preorders, we will honor preorders placed by Friday 11/11. Also, you mentioned our order minimum is "humongous" earlier in this post. Our minimum opening order was $3K net which consisted of products throughout our lineup including in-stock models and preorders. We also set the expectation retailers will stock a sampling of each new release that best fits their region (local roadnames). We do this because we continually promote the Select Retailer network and want to ensure our products are on our the retailer's shelf for customer's to buy. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by Brakie on Nov 18, 2016 11:34:12 GMT -8
Shane,3K could to a lot of hard cash to a Mom & Pop hobby shop. I don't mean to sound disrespectful but,isn't your 3K order is tipping the scale in favor of on line shops and larger B&M shops while squeezing the smaller Mom & Pop shops out of the game? I dunno but,maybe those small one mixed case orders no longer pays the bills? I'm no business man but, I would think all sales mattered to the company's bottom line.
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Post by scl1234 on Nov 18, 2016 12:08:27 GMT -8
... At this point so early in the game, I would rather allow ST to make mistakes and change strategies when the circumstances dictate than try to hold them to some standard of accountability that an established company could more easily live up to. I would rather see them get the point where they are an established big player than never really hit their stride. There is so much talent in that organization and the projects have been so elegantly designed and carefully executed they deserve some slack when it comes to this. Not to mention they may have not only underestimated the demand for their product, but also how much work it would be to manage and grow the supply chain. Could be nothing more than taking action to get some relief from growing pain headaches/stress/biting off a larger chunk of the elephant than you can chew, etc. Could they have used better PR when making this announcement? yes, but they've not been in business two years yet, IIRC.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 12:54:19 GMT -8
Ordering directly from ST has been super easy amd with good service. They even have a super sale going on right now. So if that is the future, it looks fine. No, sorry, I have a different opinion. I live in Europe and, when looking at the ST site, I can't know how much I will pay EXACTLY for shipping charges. I asked about that to ST when they announced their SD40-2s and NEVER had an answer. NEVER. Maybe ST don't care for foreign customers, just don't know. But when you live outside US, you MUST know how is shipped your package. If you don't care, that just means that money isn't a problem for you... Look at the Tangent or Exactrail sites, and you'll see the shipping charges clearly. Then you can choose. So I ordered, and will continue... Pierre BARBE
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Post by nebrzephyr on Nov 18, 2016 13:06:44 GMT -8
I wonder if ST has update their "Select dealer" list on their website? I know at least 2 dealers on the list in my area that a small time players.
Those of you who were notified by your LHS that they were no longer going to be ST dealers, do they still show on ST dealer list?
Bob
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 18, 2016 13:09:39 GMT -8
Shane,3K could to a lot of hard cash to a Mom & Pop hobby shop. I don't mean to sound disrespectful but,isn't your 3K order is tipping the scale in favor of on line shops and larger B&M shops while squeezing the smaller Mom & Pop shops out of the game? I dunno but,maybe those small one mixed case orders no longer pays the bills? I'm no business man but, I would think all sales mattered to the company's bottom line. Thank you for your post Brakie. At first glance, $3K does sound like a large opening order so let's take a closer look. In just one year, we've announced 730 items including... Museum Quality HO "Big Blow" Turbine (delivered) Rivet Counter HO "Big Blow" Turbine (delivered) Rivet Counter HO Union Pacific Early Water Tender Set (delivered) Rivet Counter N "Big Blow" Turbine Rivet Counter HO SD40-2 Operator HO SD40-2 Rivet Counter HO 4566 Airslide Hopper Operator HO 4180 Airslide Hopper Rivet Counter HO 4727 Carbon Black Covered Hopper Rivet Counter HO 5750 Carbon Black Covered Hopper Rivet Counter HO Trinity Crude Oil Tank Car (delivered) Operator HO Trinity Crude Oil Tank Car (delivered) Kit Classics HO Evans Boxcar (delivered) Operator HO CIMC 53' Dry Container (delivered) Operator HO CIMC 53' Reefer Container (delivered) Operator N CIMC 53' Dry Container (delivered) Operator N CIMC 53' Reefer Container (delivered) Building a $3K order from this list with an assortment of each product type should be fairly easy for a retailer. Keep in mind, new announcements arrive over the course of several months too. The retailer pays for the merchandise when it becomes shippable. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 18, 2016 13:14:01 GMT -8
Ordering directly from ST has been super easy amd with good service. They even have a super sale going on right now. So if that is the future, it looks fine. No, sorry, I have a different opinion. I live in Europe and, when looking at the ST site, I can't know how much I will pay EXACTLY for shipping charges. I asked about that to ST when they announced their SD40-2s and NEVER had an answer. NEVER. Maybe ST don't care for foreign customers, just don't know. But when you live outside US, you MUST know how is shipped your package. If you don't care, that just means that money isn't a problem for you... Look at the Tangent or Exactrail sites, and you'll see the shipping charges clearly. Then you can choose. So I ordered, and will continue... Pierre BARBE Pierre, Please accept our apologies for not replying to your inquiry. We strive to answer every message personally and unfortunately this one slipped through the cracks. We just celebrated one year since we announced our company. During that time, our website has evolved and shipping quotes are now included in the shopping cart. If you add the item(s) you'd like to order and start the checkout process, several shipping options with pricing from the Post Office and UPS will appear on the shipping method page. Long term, we are working-on an end-to-end solution that will include brokerage fees, duties, and taxes too. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 18, 2016 13:14:41 GMT -8
I wonder if ST has update their "Select dealer" list on their website? I know at least 2 dealers on the list in my area that a small time players. Those of you who were notified by your LHS that they were no longer going to be ST dealers, do they still show on ST dealer list? Bob Bob, Our Select Retailer list is current. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 13:15:23 GMT -8
Overland Models minimum order used to be $5000 net (ie dealer net cost), and that was many years ago now. It was probably more of a "yearly" order, also, as delivery of brass models took...awhile. Again, this was a decade or more ago. Profit margin on brass from "dealer net" to "msrp" at that time (allegedly net was 67% of msrp though some large buyers received a really wholesale deal if they cornered the market on a particular run) was likely roughly similar to some of today's profit margins on the latest most detailed hybrids and plastic models.
So $3000 today is not unreasonable at all. MTH, Lionel and others have some fairly substantial order requirements that may be exceeding ST.
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Post by Brakie on Nov 18, 2016 17:07:24 GMT -8
Shane,Thank you for your reply. After losing a excellent Mom & Pop hobby shop around 12 years ago I feel for these little shops that doesn't have a very large operating fund and struggles to compete with large B&M shops as well as the on line shops. I dunno, it seems they are playing against a stack deck. I really enjoyed going to that shop.
Anyway,I bought two of your Evans boxcar kits and will say they are a excellent value for the money. I'm Looking forward to the operator SD40-2 with DCC/Sound.
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Post by dharris on Nov 18, 2016 17:51:18 GMT -8
Ordering directly from ST has been super easy amd with good service. They even have a super sale going on right now. So if that is the future, it looks fine. No, sorry, I have a different opinion. I live in Europe and, when looking at the ST site, I can't know how much I will pay EXACTLY for shipping charges. I asked about that to ST when they announced their SD40-2s and NEVER had an answer. NEVER. Maybe ST don't care for foreign customers, just don't know. But when you live outside US, you MUST know how is shipped your package. If you don't care, that just means that money isn't a problem for you... Look at the Tangent or Exactrail sites, and you'll see the shipping charges clearly. Then you can choose. So I ordered, and will continue... Pierre BARBE If you go to the Scaletrains site and order, after you put your non US address in you get pricing for many shipping methods. So the issue above is not accurate today. Now, the shipping charges are not inexpensive overseas, but that is a different matter.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 22:39:27 GMT -8
No, sorry, I have a different opinion. I live in Europe and, when looking at the ST site, I can't know how much I will pay EXACTLY for shipping charges. I asked about that to ST when they announced their SD40-2s and NEVER had an answer. NEVER. Maybe ST don't care for foreign customers, just don't know. But when you live outside US, you MUST know how is shipped your package. If you don't care, that just means that money isn't a problem for you... Look at the Tangent or Exactrail sites, and you'll see the shipping charges clearly. Then you can choose. So I ordered, and will continue... Pierre BARBE Pierre, Please accept our apologies for not replying to your inquiry. We strive to answer every message personally and unfortunately this one slipped through the cracks. We just celebrated one year since we announced our company. During that time, our website has evolved and shipping quotes are now included in the shopping cart. If you add the item(s) you'd like to order and start the checkout process, several shipping options with pricing from the Post Office and UPS will appear on the shipping method page. Long term, we are working-on an end-to-end solution that will include brokerage fees, duties, and taxes too. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc. Hello Shane, Thanks for this answer, it's very nice. So I will surely give a try when 4566s will arrive . Regards, Pierre BARBE
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 22:46:40 GMT -8
Now, the shipping charges are not inexpensive overseas, but that is a different matter. Yes, and ScaleTrains can not do as with continental US, I understand it's just impossible. But difference between shipping with USPS (I've NEVER had a problem with them !) and UPS, Fedex or DHL can be... ENORMOUS... I prefer, no, I want to put my money into model trains rather than in transport operators ! Pierre BARBE
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Post by stephen on Nov 19, 2016 12:51:35 GMT -8
I thought I would chime in on what I do know. I do not post very often. I do not know what Scale Trains problem is with DCC Trains and do not know why they dropped them. As for the $3000 minimum DCC had several Big Blow locomotives on the shelf in stock. I had gone in twice that week and the second time they asked if I wanted one. I passed and another person there at the time took it. If you are like me I like to see before I buy. Both units were gone in a week. They had well over $3000 worth on stock easily. I do not like to buy direct as that means I have to deal with to many people and shipments verses dealing with one person at a hobby shop who know me and what I like. I guess if I can not order from my hobby than Scale Train can just loose my sales. I am retired and I work to pay for my trains. Have spent anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 a year. I guess Scale Trains just cut some of their total sales for the year. Sounds like Scale Trains has some internal Problems. Just my opinion. Stephen
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Post by mowingman on Nov 19, 2016 15:16:12 GMT -8
I thought I would chime in on what I do know. I do not post very often. I do not know what Scale Trains problem is with DCC Trains and do not know why they dropped them. As for the $3000 minimum DCC had several Big Blow locomotives on the shelf in stock. I had gone in twice that week and the second time they asked if I wanted one. I passed and another person there at the time took it. If you are like me I like to see before I buy. Both units were gone in a week. They had well over $3000 worth on stock easily. I do not like to buy direct as that means I have to deal with to many people and shipments verses dealing with one person at a hobby shop who know me and what I like. I guess if I can not order from my hobby than Scale Train can just loose my sales. I am retired and I work to pay for my trains. Have spent anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 a year. I guess Scale Trains just cut some of their total sales for the year. Sounds like Scale Trains has some internal Problems. Just my opinion. Stephen I agree 100%. I am not going to buy a fairly expensive freight car, unless I can see it up close and hold it in my hands. Let alone a very expensive locomotive. Especially from a new manufacturer with no proven track record. My business will go to manufacturers who have at least a few of their products on a shelf at one of my local hobby shops. I will not be buying anything that this company makes since I can not see any of their products up close. Heck, I am paying as much for some locos now,as I used to pay for a nice used car. I would not buy the car without seeing it, either.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 15:50:58 GMT -8
Shane, since you're active in this thread I hope you'll see this. I completely support your decision. Full stop. Retailers can be a pain to deal with, running a business can mean tough decisions, and I'm not going to question your decision or throw a tantrum because I can't handle online ordering. (Heck, despite having two stores within 30 minutes of me, I can't get a Tsunami2 decoder without ordering online.) Best of luck to your business.
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Post by dharris on Nov 19, 2016 16:49:33 GMT -8
I thought I would chime in on what I do know. I do not post very often. I do not know what Scale Trains problem is with DCC Trains and do not know why they dropped them. As for the $3000 minimum DCC had several Big Blow locomotives on the shelf in stock. I had gone in twice that week and the second time they asked if I wanted one. I passed and another person there at the time took it. If you are like me I like to see before I buy. Both units were gone in a week. They had well over $3000 worth on stock easily. I do not like to buy direct as that means I have to deal with to many people and shipments verses dealing with one person at a hobby shop who know me and what I like. I guess if I can not order from my hobby than Scale Train can just loose my sales. I am retired and I work to pay for my trains. Have spent anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 a year. I guess Scale Trains just cut some of their total sales for the year. Sounds like Scale Trains has some internal Problems. Just my opinion. Stephen I agree 100%. I am not going to buy a fairly expensive freight car, unless I can see it up close and hold it in my hands. Let alone a very expensive locomotive. Especially from a new manufacturer with no proven track record. My business will go to manufacturers who have at least a few of their products on a shelf at one of my local hobby shops. I will not be buying anything that this company makes since I can not see any of their products up close. Heck, I am paying as much for some locos now,as I used to pay for a nice used car. I would not buy the car without seeing it, either. Scaletrains has released multiple products and all are excellent. I would order a new product from them online with no reservation. I met the Scaletrains crew in Indy and they Seemed to be honest and earnest. I think online direct ordering will grow in use in the future.
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Post by 12bridge on Nov 19, 2016 17:02:55 GMT -8
All of my LHS's are good for paint, glue, supplies, etc, but thats about it. Everything else is done online. I dont feel guilty about it either.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 20:22:55 GMT -8
Most of my stuff is bought online these days...either ordering direct; or from an online hobby shops. If Scale Trains had cut back my online dealer...since I don't have a local hobby shop...then I'd order it direct from them. I did with ExactRail...and will do so for them.
I just use their "advance reservation" button to pre-order their stuff. Same thing as reserving it from the hobby shop...you're getting the item direct from them. You don't get charged until your item is in stock and ready to ship to you.
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Post by Brakie on Nov 20, 2016 1:57:18 GMT -8
Guys,I'm at a point where my monthly modeling needs no longer justifies a monthly order so,I would welcome a Mom & Pop hobby shop for my limited needs since I'm beyond that old modeler's "gotta have" stage we all go through at one point. The only locomotives that I have solid plans on buying is ST operator SD40-2 with DCC/Sound and freight car buying is limited to bulkhead flatcars and select Evens and Thrall mill gons at one or two a month the savings wouldn't be sufficient between LHS and on line by the time you add shipping.
My modeling consist of painting wheel faces and I'm starting a winter project of weathering freight cars with PanPastel artist's pastels. I finish the upgrade on my Athearn BB SW7 with DA cab windows. I still haven't decided if I want to add a white frame stripe.
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Post by bobschuknecht on Nov 20, 2016 2:42:19 GMT -8
It appears as though Scaletrains is making sure their dealers carry their products on the store shelves rather than just place special orders when a customer wants something special. I don't see a problem with that.
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Post by Brakie on Nov 20, 2016 5:45:01 GMT -8
It appears as though Scaletrains is making sure their dealers carry their products on the store shelves rather than just place special orders when a customer wants something special. I don't see a problem with that. The only problem I see is the smaller Mom & Pop stores getting squeezed out of the game because they don't have deep pockets like larger B&M and on line shops..$3,000 can be a lot of cash for these shops for stock that may set on their shelves for months since these new models can be bought cheaper on line or the larger shops. A cold question the owners may need to ask is "Do we tie up that $3,000 in models that may not sell or ay restock items that sell?" A tough question if you have limited operation funds.
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Post by stephen on Nov 20, 2016 5:47:37 GMT -8
My shop sure has stock even Exact Rail as well as Scale Trains. What is Scale Trains problem with DCC Trains I not sure. They have plenty of stock, not a bunch of old unsaleable items nobody wants. I always purchase something when I am in there. I could not name all the diverse inventory that they have. As I said, DCC Trains sure met the $3000 requirement! Maybe they will change their minds when they work out there dealer problems. Scale Trains it is your turn now to follow up here on the forum and expand to me and your customers, as your starting to turn your customer base off over this. Especially me and Cincinnati customers. A large city at that. You know we LHS customers talk and it has not been positive for you. Stephen
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Post by Brakie on Nov 20, 2016 8:34:23 GMT -8
While I don't live in the Queen City or anywhere near it I also don't understand the reason DCC Trains was drop since it has a on line presence and seems to be a well stock shop judging by their on line catalog.
They do keep odd business hours--IMHO.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 20, 2016 9:53:01 GMT -8
My shop sure has stock even Exact Rail as well as Scale Trains. What is Scale Trains problem with DCC Trains I not sure. They have plenty of stock, not a bunch of old unsaleable items nobody wants. I always purchase something when I am in there. I could not name all the diverse inventory that they have. As I said, DCC Trains sure met the $3000 requirement! Maybe they will change their minds when they work out there dealer problems. Scale Trains it is your turn now to follow up here on the forum and expand to me and your customers, as your starting to turn your customer base off over this. Especially me and Cincinnati customers. A large city at that. You know we LHS customers talk and it has not been positive for you. Stephen Stephen, I’ve thought about what to say and have come to the conclusion anything we post will not change your opinion about our decision to make adjustments to our retailer network. Our team spent a-lot of time discussing this subject and the potential effects on our business. We did not take this change lightly. Unfortunately sharing more information could potentially do more harm than good – just look how my earlier post about the $3K opening order has been misinterpreted. The fact remains… we are continuing to sell our models directly to dozens of local retailers including two in your area. Our products are also available directly from us. We hope we will offer models you would like to have someday and we have the opportunity to earn your business. Sincerely, Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by stephen on Nov 20, 2016 11:10:14 GMT -8
Shane: Sorry to hear that you are not selling to DCC Trains which is a larger store. So bottom line Shane, DCC had met the $3000 and you just don't want to sell to real train shop. The other shop in our area that you choose to sell to is mostly ship, planes and rockets with very - very little Train stock if any. Why would I go to a hobby shop that does not specialize or stock trains? You can change my opinion if you had presented a good reason, which you have not. Maybe it is the other way round and "IT IS YOUR OPINION THAT CANNOT BE CHANGED!" Being a business man myself, and knowing for a fact the DCC trains has met your $3000 order, and that they had stock on the self, I would conclude that Scale Trains has a personal vendetta with the owners. Sorry to see personal decisions get in the way of good business decisions. I would like everyone across the country to know I personally talked to the owners and the problem is personal with Scale Trains. With that said I believe Scale Trains and DCC Trains need to get over this petty childish behavior and make amends. Sad to see a good company start out in one year and turned a positive into a negative that the whole country is reading online now. Lost customer with deep pockets, Stephen .
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 20, 2016 12:01:29 GMT -8
Shane: Sorry to hear that you are not selling to DCC Trains which is a larger store. So bottom line Shane, DCC had met the $3000 and you just don't want to sell to real train shop. The other shop in our area that you choose to sell to is mostly ship, planes and rockets with very - very little Train stock if any. Why would I go to a hobby shop that does not specialize or stock trains? You can change my opinion if you had presented a good reason, which you have not. Maybe it is the other way round and "IT IS YOUR OPINION THAT CANNOT BE CHANGED!" Being a business man myself, and knowing for a fact the DCC trains has met your $3000 order, and that they had stock on the self, I would conclude that Scale Trains has a personal vendetta with the owners. Sorry to see personal decisions get in the way of good business decisions. I would like everyone across the country to know I personally talked to the owners and the problem is personal with Scale Trains. With that said I believe Scale Trains and DCC Trains need to get over this petty childish behavior and make amends. Sad to see a good company start out in one year and turned a positive into a negative that the whole country is reading online now. Lost customer with deep pockets, Stephen . Being a "business man", you should full well know that ScaleTrains can't publicly disclose any issues surrounding the specifics of why or why not DCC Trains, or any other specific retailer, may or may not stock their products. Disclosing the specific reasons between them and that store to the public would be unprofessional business conduct. $3000 on the shelves is just that - it may not necessarily be a commitment to order more on a regular basis to meet any minimums, and there may be other things going on behind the scenes with that shop and/or Scaletrains that you, I or anyone else isn't privy to (financing or payment issues, disagreements about minimums, complaints about product received or returned, etc). Just because a shop may qualify for minimums, other issues might be preventing them from continuing on as a dealer. Alluding to or alleging the issues in public like you just did however, is quite unprofessional. Whatever alleged "personal vendettas" (whether they be true or false) is between them and should be settled between the two companies, without either being dragged in the mud in public. One has a right to sell or to refuse to sell the other's products, and the other has the right to sell to or to refuse to sell their products to the other.
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Post by scl1234 on Nov 21, 2016 5:41:56 GMT -8
Sorry to hear that you are not selling to DCC Train s ... What city is this "DCC Train s" hobby shop located in? Do they have a web site? (Google searched but couldn't locate it if Train is plural) As for people stating they must "see" and "hold" ("Look but don't touch" is a 1960's meme that had all but evaporated by the late 70's) any model before purchasing, it's a bit difficult to understand that. The model detail can be seen via close-ups on Scale Trains site. If a manufacturer's QC is so bad that one third of the models have parts falling off, you usually hear about that before ordering. Yes, we've all been burned by having to return something that was broken when received, but really that's the ~1 percent dissatisfaction/"price we pay" for the enjoyment of this hobby.
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