Guck
New Member
Posts: 6 
|
Post by Guck on Nov 16, 2016 16:00:28 GMT -8
just got an email from my local shop, Scaletrains called them and told them they were no longer going to be a dealer. Had quite a few products on order and was going to order the black carbon cars. It's nice to go to your local hobby shop and see the product and not have to rely on pictures on the Internet. has anybody else heard of anything like this?
|
|
|
|
Post by dharris on Nov 16, 2016 16:19:04 GMT -8
Had not heard it.
Probably has something to do with discounting retail vs wholesale.
I had not seen their products in stores other than Spring Creek in Nebraska.
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 16, 2016 16:41:12 GMT -8
I ordered some of the SD40-2's through my local. I rather expect Scaletrains should fulfill existing orders. There is a contract, after all.
Subsequent orders could, of course, be under a new contract.
I do know that Scaletrains had a rather humongous minimum for hobby shops.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by llxlocomotives on Nov 16, 2016 17:04:10 GMT -8
I'm not sure what is happening n this case. However, this could be for a number of reasons. They probably have a mnimum number of sales that are require to be a dealer. It is hard to understand a company who has only been in business for a short time cutting off sales outlets, unless they have decided to direct sale everything. This tends to be the favored model today. Scale trains may have decided to go mostly with direct sales and only work with large sales volume LHS.
These are just the first ones I thought of. I'm sure there are many more reasons possible. Scale Trains seems to be moving a lot of product so they may be focusing on the most efficient systems to handle the new models going forward.
This points to the brick and motor retail problems. Unless things change, it is had to see how they survive. I came across a interesting thing today. I was at a store looking at a non train item. I had looked at it on line and it was $30. These are new items and "not on sale". The same item in the store was $21. There was no explanation. I asked at the checkout why that would be. They did not know. Was it a fluke or a trend? That would be one way to protect your brick & motor outlets. Again, not sure if is a mistake or a plan
|
|
|
|
Post by jlwii2000 on Nov 16, 2016 17:52:45 GMT -8
I'm not sure what is happening n this case. However, this could be for a number of reasons. They probably have a mnimum number of sales that are require to be a dealer. It is hard to understand a company who has only been in business for a short time cutting off sales outlets, unless they have decided to direct sale everything. This tends to be the favored model today. Scale trains may have decided to go mostly with direct sales and only work with large sales volume LHS. These are just the first ones I thought of. I'm sure there are many more reasons possible. Scale Trains seems to be moving a lot of product so they may be focusing on the most efficient systems to handle the new models going forward. This points to the brick and motor retail problems. Unless things change, it is had to see how they survive. I came across a interesting thing today. I was at a store looking at a non train item. I had looked at it on line and it was $30. These are new items and "not on sale". The same item in the store was $21. There was no explanation. I asked at the checkout why that would be. They did not know. Was it a fluke or a trend? That would be one way to protect your brick & motor outlets. Again, not sure if is a mistake or a plan I guarantee you're on to something there with minimums or other stipulations. I know of several dealers that are still dealers as of this moment. |
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Nov 16, 2016 18:07:57 GMT -8
Not sure how things work nowadays. Maybe the dealer didn't pay their bill?
|
|
|
|
Post by dtinut on Nov 16, 2016 20:11:03 GMT -8
I got an email from the B&M store I order stuff from, and although they arent huge, they have a significant customer base, and I am sure they sell enough to cover dealer minimums. Below is the note:
Hey Everyone
I just got a call from Scaletrains and was told we are no longer available as a dealer with them. Im not a 100% sure why, but he said they were making some business decisions. To my knowledge I dont believe we did anything wrong, but at this time i can not accept any Black Carbon car orders.
I apologize, but I'm shocked as you might be.
SD40-2 orders are fine. All current preorders will be filled.
But I will not be able to accept Scaletrains order from here on out.
Thanks
--
This smells like ER... Going to a direct sales model....
Bummed
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Nov 16, 2016 20:17:55 GMT -8
Sent an email to my sales guy, see what he says.
|
|
wictl
Junior Member
Posts: 74
|
Post by wictl on Nov 17, 2016 6:01:21 GMT -8
One of my local shops received the same notice that past week. One has to wonder what is going on.
Darin Umlauft
A WC, SOO and GBW fan in Slinger, WI
|
|
Tom
Full Member
Posts: 229
|
Post by Tom on Nov 17, 2016 6:27:19 GMT -8
This is a little unclear. Does Scaletrains also act as a distributor (similar to Walthers and Horizon) as well as a manufacturer selling directly to the shops? or do they work with the conventional method and sell to a distributor who then sells to the retailer?
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2016 7:11:28 GMT -8
This smells like ER... Going to a direct sales model.... Bummed Brian Fewer purchase options is generally not a good thing. The more posts I read, the more that appears to be the case. But ST appears not to have sent out an announcement to that effect which is odd. ER did make a statement about their plans to go direct sales only. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but MB Klein has been stocking ExactRail rolling stock for the past month or so in limited quantities but a fairly wide variety of older and newer items. Prices are a little funky - some are higher than ER's direct prices and a few are slightly lower. And of course ER is selling through the new Trainlife shop and website - the inventory appears to be synchronized with that on ER's direct sales site. Anyway, I think I like Tangents model the best. They do have direct sales but they also sell though a variety of shops too at a small discount. I do order ExactRail rolling stock periodically through their website but like the option of being able to mix brands in an order like I just did from MBK to pick up a couple of Tangent covered hoppers and a few Intermountain PFE ice reefers for a "one off" train for my only steam engine (SP Cab Forward) to pull. BTW, those IMR PFE ice reefers sold out within a couple hours! They showed up in the late afternoon and after supper ALL were sold! *whoosh* So far I do not own any ST products because almost all are out-of-scope for my modeling focus. The only piece ST has out on the market I could use are the Evans box cars, which I already had a bunch from Atlas. The only ones from ST I would like to buy seem to be sold-out, so go figure. I'll probably get one or two carbon black cars if I can figure out which would be good candidates for 1970's Rio Grande. |
|
|
|
Post by scl1234 on Nov 17, 2016 7:13:33 GMT -8
...and before the thread gets to 3-4 pages, I'll search for "Exactrail Business Model" threads and post the links below. Reasons should be mostly the same as why ER went this route with their business. No sense in a rehash. Business decisions are business decisions. forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=70311&whichpage=1 |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2016 7:20:56 GMT -8
Ed, fair enough. But as I recall, ER did state up-front the changes they intended to make, rather than just quietly telling hobby shops that "funs over" (as my wife likes to say). Sure, I get it. As the British guy said in Pirates of the Caribbean: "It's just good business"!
When ER went direct only, it did squelch my purchasing of their products for a bit but I built a bridge and got over it. I now have to find windows in my budget and order small batches a few times a year and life goes on.
Question now is, will ST make a public statement (which I expect they will) and when?
|
|
Tom
Full Member
Posts: 229
|
Post by Tom on Nov 17, 2016 7:30:59 GMT -8
ER went that way, and in just over two years, has not announced or produced, any new products. Plenty of paint on things that have been released, but nothing new.
Scaletrains is new and I'm waiting for an SD40-2 from a dealer, so I was curious which distribution practice they used. That is still unanswered.
-Tom
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2016 8:21:52 GMT -8
ER went that way, and in just over two years, has not announced or produced, any new products. Plenty of paint on things that have been released, but nothing new. Yes, that hasn't been lost on many of us; so Tom, are you postulating that the switched to the new sales model is to blame (in part or whole) for the lack of any "all new model" releases for a long time? ST often checks these forums so I expect it is a matter of time until we get some clarification on the hobby shop question. |
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Nov 17, 2016 9:41:55 GMT -8
I notice MBK has ER back in stock..Let us hope that's more then another warehouse find.
I'm hoping ST will continue selling to MBK since that is my main hobby shop-on line or other wise..
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cutler III on Nov 17, 2016 10:06:36 GMT -8
It would have been nice if ST had done this from Day 1. They are all experienced guys in the hobby business and they knew what they were getting into. The direct sales model has been well-established by ER and others; ST could have chosen that from the beginning. Instead they went conventional and used the LHS market to help establish their business with the Big Blows, boxcars, tanks, then the containers and SD40-2's. But just days after starting to take pre-orders on the Trainfest-announced carbon black car, they rip the rug out from under the LHS by canceling their accounts?
Not cool, man.
Worse, instead of announcing it at Trainfest, doing a press release on their own website or on their FB page (or heck, even here on the ARF), they start calling hobby shops and just telling them they won't be dealers any more? With no explanation other than "a business decision"? What's up with that? In this era of instant communication, this is a poor business model to follow. It just ticks people off.
Note that I don't object to ST going direct sales (that ship has sailed), only with the way they've handled it. What ST should have done was publically announce the change in sales model before Trainfest on their own website and FB page, start calling LHS's to tell them they've been eliminated as dealers, then announce the carbon black cars at Trainfest.
Edit: Just digging through ST's FB page, and Shane had still been talking about offering the Carbon Black cars to retailers as of 11/13/16:
"Is the pre order special only on your website or hobby shops also??"
November 13 at 7:44am ScaleTrains.com: "we're offering retailers an incentive as well. It's up to the retailer whether or not they pass along the savings. Shane"
Weird. Did something change in the past 4 days?
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2016 10:29:26 GMT -8
I notice MBK has ER back in stock..Let us hope that's more then another warehouse find. At first I thought "warehouse find" was stuff MBK lost track of at their warehouse and put back on the website, which is how it sounds, but after seeing quite a few bunches listed now, it made me wonder, how could they lose track of that much stuff, that many times? But it also could be a warehouse find at Horizon or somewhere else and MBK is taking it on? Not really sure. Either way, the ExactRail items are not warehouse find's because most of the rolling stock listed is from long past when ER went to direct sales - some of them are from this year like the PC&F box cars for example. ... I don't like the high(er) shipping costs when I can find other freight cars for less money in person at my local dealer, and thus save money. You do know for orders over $100 it's free shipping - which is like maybe 3 freight cars. As long as ER can continue that, it will be a system I can work with. Sure, it would be nice to inspect first but ER has always stood behind their products so in the rare cases I had a problem, they made sure I received a replacement and it didn't cost me extra. And ... most of the stuff ER has on their direct sales website is not going to be found at your LHS, unless it's really old ER stock from before they went to direct sales - at least as a rule. MBK is an exception I have noticed lately. Nothing wrong with the monthly sales. I take advantage of them if they offer something I need and the timing is right. Good if you have a local dealer - I don't. But I believe it is worthwhile to buy the newer, more expensive cars and direct isn't a show stopper if I can order enough with free shipping or modest shipping costs. I really like the Moloco cars I've gotten |
|
Tom
Full Member
Posts: 229
|
Post by Tom on Nov 17, 2016 11:27:34 GMT -8
ER went that way, and in just over two years, has not announced or produced, any new products. Plenty of paint on things that have been released, but nothing new. Yes, that hasn't been lost on many of us; so Tom, are you postulating that the switched to the new sales model is to blame (in part or whole) for the lack of any "all new model" releases for a long time? More just a curiosity. Not to hijack, but the move for them was to "better serve the customer," which I don't entirely comprehend, but I figured they'd see a larger return on their own products. One would think that would lead to some new R&D or an announcement or two. As for ST, I'm sure they'll answer. I was just curious which method they used for distribution. -Tom |
|
Guck
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by Guck on Nov 17, 2016 11:38:00 GMT -8
I called scale trains today to ask them to clarify what was going on with them dropping my local hobby shop as a dealer. They said that my local hobby shop did not meet the criteria for being a dealer anymore, would not tell me what the criteria was.They said the last thing they wanted to do was inconvenience the customer, seems like the biggest inconvenience you could do to the customer.
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2016 12:10:11 GMT -8
the move for them was to "better serve the customer," which I don't entirely comprehend, but I figured they'd see a larger return on their own products. What I recall is that, at the time, cost increase were a much talked about issue, and (from memory) ER stated that going direct would help to control/minimize the increases - profits would remain static; to decrease profits would obviously endanger longevity. As Jason has said, making models isn't a way to get rich. I would assume the rational was, if you cut out the middle man (i.e. the LHS, or distributor chain), then ER can, instead of raising prices more, keep them in check by removing that padding. That was the theory anyway. Less "other parties" taking a piece of the action was supposed to keep costs from rising even more. Much more than a new announcement or two. For at least a couple years or so, ER did continue to announce a number of new models after the direct sales went into effect. Some examples: Bethlehem 4000, 3483 and 3737 coal cars GSC 42 and 53' flat cars Johnstown America Autoflood hoppers Magor 4948 "Big John" hopper Thrall 63' "Opera Window" Center-Beam Thrall 54' Coil Cars Trenton Works 67' Bulkhead Flat Car Trinity TRINCool 64' Reefer Likely I've missed a few. But that said, only re-runs now for the last year or two so we've been left wondering when or if ER will offer more "all new" models. My hands are pretty full with what is being offered as it is, but I do wonder too. |
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Nov 17, 2016 12:29:13 GMT -8
I heard back from my guy; I can't buy Scaletrains wholesale through this distrubutor, they ceased business earlier this year.
Which is fine with me, I'm not sure I want to try to sell products from a company who outright looks to screw hobby dealers, between selling their stuff at my cost at shows and now pulling the rug out from under shops who sold their items, I don't care how nice it is, I won't buy any more. This business is hard enough as it is without guys who should know better playing these kind of games to establish themselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by ScaleTrains.com on Nov 17, 2016 12:41:24 GMT -8
The title of this thread is misleading. While we have stopped accepting new retailers and have adjusted the number of dealers we sell to, we remain committed to selling directly through our website as well as our Select Retailer network. In fact, we have a major promotion starting Monday that will be available online and at participating Select Retailers. This promotion along with a retailer listing will be advertised in "Railroad Model Craftsman"," Model Railroad News"," NMRA Magazine", and "Model Railroad Hobbyist" starting later this month. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc. |
|
|
|
Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Nov 17, 2016 12:46:13 GMT -8
The title of this thread is misleading. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc. Why that couldn't POSSIBLY be the case. This is the Internet read it,live it, believe it!  |
|
Guck
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by Guck on Nov 17, 2016 13:35:08 GMT -8
The title of this thread is misleading. While we have stopped accepting new retailers and have adjusted the number of dealers we sell to. Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc. I did not think the title was misleading, I shop at Dcc train and no longer can order scaletrains through them. ( they are no longer a dealer) because I work out of town I don't like having packages shipped to my house. Which makes it difficult to order items when I cannot go pick them up myself. |
|
|
|
Post by dtinut on Nov 17, 2016 13:40:19 GMT -8
Why on earth would you choose to STOP accepting New Retailers? Isn't the GOAL of any company to SELL product they manufacture?
I would think that having MORE sales people rooting for you by SELLING your PRODUCTS, that it would mean more sales, which leads to more GROWTH for the company.
If a LHS meets your minimums, than they should qualify to be a part of your sales team.
It's hard enough to FIND a LHS anymore, as almost all of them have gone the way of the
Thylacine
Quagga
Passenger Pigeon
Golden Toad
Caribbean Monk Seal
Pyrenean Ibex
Bubal Hartebeest
Javan Tiger
I am NOT a sales person nor a business analyst, but this certainly doens't make sense to me!
Regards,
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by dharris on Nov 17, 2016 13:51:07 GMT -8
Ordering directly from ST has been super easy amd with good service.
They even have a super sale going on right now.
So if that is the future, it looks fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 17, 2016 14:10:34 GMT -8
So if that is the future, it looks fine. It might be the future, but I've got orders with my local I made in the PAST. And I note Shane didn't mention that they would honor those orders. So things are being rearranged. And details will be revealed later. Or not. Swell. Ed |
|
|
|
Post by steveturner on Nov 17, 2016 14:57:12 GMT -8
Business is so good they are ....SELECTIVE ........as to who and who cannot sell their product. If my LHS is not good enough todo business with you or any other MFG with that snobbish attitude then I just wont purchase your product. I support my local or nearest hobby shop. I am going to have to report this type of behaviour to Mr Trump and you will all be fired LOL.Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Nov 17, 2016 16:52:44 GMT -8
I live in the sixteenth largest city in the United States and the fourth largest metro area in the US. I can name one hobby shop in this area where I can order models in advance and where I can go to browse new releases. The only trouble is this shop is over an hour away during off-peak traffic. That's a little too far to just pop in for browsing or to sift through a dwindling part and decal selection. So, over the past decade my purchases have stopped coming from the increasingly rare and irrelevant LHS and instead come from dealers like MBK, ebay and direct sales from the manufacturer.
As with any new business venture, ST needs to be flexible and make the most out of their opportunities. If the dealer network is costing them money, it could impact the health of the company negatively. So by not being flexible and sticking with strategies that lose money the entire business could suffer.
At this point so early in the game, I would rather allow ST to make mistakes and change strategies when the circumstances dictate than try to hold them to some standard of accountability that an established company could more easily live up to. I would rather see them get the point where they are an established big player than never really hit their stride. There is so much talent in that organization and the projects have been so elegantly designed and carefully executed they deserve some slack when it comes to this.
|
|
