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Post by ambluco on Mar 29, 2019 3:47:09 GMT -8
Boxcab please. How about an SW-1 and a Box Cab, all new tooling and current quality drive?
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Post by John Sheridan on Mar 29, 2019 4:01:51 GMT -8
On the topic of ALCo S-series... How about proper S-3 and S-4 models? To date, it seems that manufacturers are good with sticking AAR-A trucks under an S-1 or S-2. I have noticed that many (all?) S-3/4 are more welded, especially cabs, than the S-1/2. Maybe it is a "phase" thing, or production date cut over, maybe someone here knows. The S1/S3 has a shorter frame (1ft) & different wheelbase than the S2/S4 - Hence the reason why Atlas has not gone for them. In order to do it correctly, you would need to start from scratch.
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Post by John Sheridan on Mar 29, 2019 4:04:10 GMT -8
To my post above, likely a phase thing. Note the car body vents are different, hood and cab seem to be missing rivets, and cab windows are rounded on the corners (gasketed?). But we know not all S-4 units had this vent configuration. Absolutely not just an S-2 with AAR trucks. Almost an S-6 look to it. Not to mention that the S4s had 2 different cab types - Riveted & welded. The riveted cab is very close to the S2 cab while the welded cab is more rounded & has rounded windows with gaskets. We won't even get into the bodyshells, handrails, etc.
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Post by roadkill on Mar 29, 2019 6:44:14 GMT -8
On the topic of ALCo S-series... How about proper S-3 and S-4 models? To date, it seems that manufacturers are good with sticking AAR-A trucks under an S-1 or S-2. I have noticed that many (all?) S-3/4 are more welded, especially cabs, than the S-1/2. Maybe it is a "phase" thing, or production date cut over, maybe someone here knows. The S1/S3 has a shorter frame (1ft) & different wheelbase than the S2/S4 - Hence the reason why Atlas has not gone for them. In order to do it correctly, you would need to start from scratch. What's wrong with the P2K S1/S3???
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Post by GP40P-2 on Mar 29, 2019 10:17:43 GMT -8
The S1/S3 has a shorter frame (1ft) & different wheelbase than the S2/S4 - Hence the reason why Atlas has not gone for them. In order to do it correctly, you would need to start from scratch. What's wrong with the P2K S1/S3??? Nothing is wrong with it, it's a great little model, and Walthers really should rerun it. I wish that I had not sold off my P2K undec a few years ago. However, is the S-3 correct with just slapping AAR-A trucks under it? That's the big question. If the gasketed windows, welded cab, etc are a phase thing, or just a customer option, a given S-3 may or may not be correct (see Chairman Meow's post near this one).
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Post by 12bridge on Mar 29, 2019 10:21:50 GMT -8
The proto S line, considering its age, are fantastic switchers. They pull great and have lots of detail. The issue is they are not even remotely DCC friendly. Doable, just not a plug and play.
I would like to see the Proto S line revived, or somebody else step up and do them. Atlas was supposedly going to do the rest of theirs after the S2, but that never happened.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Mar 29, 2019 10:23:18 GMT -8
Absolutely not just an S-2 with AAR trucks. Almost an S-6 look to it. Not to mention that the S4s had 2 different cab types - Riveted & welded. The riveted cab is very close to the S2 cab while the welded cab is more rounded & has rounded windows with gaskets. We won't even get into the bodyshells, handrails, etc. Chairman: Have you found anything that would show if the welded cab, gasketed windows, late car body vents, etc are a production cutover change by build date (i.e. phases), or a customer option thing?
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Post by 12bridge on Mar 29, 2019 10:28:42 GMT -8
I do believe the welded cab was a late phase thing and not an option. The hood was also welded (atleast on the RS1s). They are certainly a minority though.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 29, 2019 12:19:18 GMT -8
What about the EMD SW7 Late phase EMD NW2 phase V I think?
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 29, 2019 12:34:00 GMT -8
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Post by grahamline on Mar 29, 2019 12:44:58 GMT -8
A proper TR5 set would ne nice. Lots of variations but maybe not big market. Since we're spitballing anyway.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 29, 2019 12:52:24 GMT -8
Late phase EMD NW2 phase V I think? GN 147 should be a phase II, by its build date. But a phase II didn't have louvers on the doors, making 147 look like a phase III. I'm a'guessin' the louvered doors were added later. 'Cause it's a Good Idea. Ed
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Post by packer on Mar 29, 2019 15:29:33 GMT -8
What about the EMD SW7 Late phase EMD NW2 phase V I think? Broadway makes both. However they don’t do a whole lot for details, and the diecast walkways are a pain to drill for details. But they do pull really well (even more so if you pull out broadway’s vacuum tube electronics and replace it with something else and fill the void with lead). I have two, and am trying to part with one.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 29, 2019 15:58:52 GMT -8
Broadway doesn't make an NW2 that looks like the GN switcher. The GN loco has the early slope in front of the cab, the BLI the later one.
Ed
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Post by trainworm on Mar 29, 2019 18:28:41 GMT -8
If someone would just come out with an accurate SP C415 I'd buy it.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 29, 2019 19:31:20 GMT -8
trainworm, I hope you know that this ("You should make a ______; I'd buy one!") is a saying that model manufacturers get all the time.
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Post by trainworm on Mar 29, 2019 23:04:38 GMT -8
trainworm, I hope you know that this ("You should make a ______; I'd buy one!") is a saying that model manufacturers get all the time. Only every 18 seconds
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 3:08:38 GMT -8
A "definitive model" of the SW7 would be very cool. We have the Athearn blue box version (incorrectly labeled SW1500 for years); and the "Broadway". I really don't consider Broadway Limited a source for anything diesel; but that's me.
Athearn could spruce theirs up like they did the actual SW1500; put the mashima motor in it; and re-tool the shell and frame. Kato's NW2 probably won't ever get a different version...and their switchers really lack the detail when compared to the Genesis MP15AC and RTR SW1500.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Mar 30, 2019 3:48:00 GMT -8
A "definitive model" of the SW7 would be very cool. We have the Athearn blue box version (incorrectly labeled SW1500 for years); and the "Broadway". I really don't consider Broadway Limited a source for anything diesel; but that's me. Athearn could spruce theirs up like they did the actual SW1500; put the mashima motor in it; and re-tool the shell and frame. Kato's NW2 probably won't ever get a different version...and their switchers really lack the detail when compared to the Genesis MP15AC and RTR SW1500. I heard that the Athearn SW7 shell has all sorts of dimensional errors.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 3:58:33 GMT -8
I have not inspected the Athearn SW7 in years...but you could be correct. It could really then use a complete overhaul. I used to have them as "stand-in" models for SW1200's (I replaced the headlights and other parts with Detail Associates stuff); before the Proto SW1200's came out.
A totally re-done version would be especially cool. Maybe Rapido could use their SW1200 chassis and do the model justice? They would be a "pinnacle model" IMO.
Athearn Genesis would be an excellent model as well.
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Post by csx3305 on Mar 30, 2019 5:24:56 GMT -8
A "definitive model" of the SW7 would be very cool. We have the Athearn blue box version (incorrectly labeled SW1500 for years); and the "Broadway". I really don't consider Broadway Limited a source for anything diesel; but that's me. Athearn could spruce theirs up like they did the actual SW1500; put the mashima motor in it; and re-tool the shell and frame. Kato's NW2 probably won't ever get a different version...and their switchers really lack the detail when compared to the Genesis MP15AC and RTR SW1500. I heard that the Athearn SW7 shell has all sorts of dimensional errors. Doesn't that tooling date back to the early 60's? I built one almost twenty years ago, and I remember thinking at that time how archaic it looked. EDIT: 1966.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Mar 30, 2019 7:08:07 GMT -8
What I heard was that Athearn designed it to fit on the S-12 chassis they had already -- which is a bit longer, so the hood of the SW7 got longer. To keep the proportions correct, they made the hood taller as well. Baldwin S-12 prototype length: 46' 6 1/4",source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_S-12EMD SW7 prototype length: 44' 5", source: www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20SW7.HTMLThe difference in length works out to a bit more than 1/4" in HO scale, noticeable at least.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 30, 2019 8:50:03 GMT -8
Colin,
Since the Athearn SW7 predates their S-12 by a number of years, your reasoning isn't looking too good, there.
However, the Athearn body IS about .1" too long and .04" too high.
And a re-do of the NW2/SW7 would be very nice. Maybe Rapido will keep the ball rolling.
Ed
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Post by roadkill on Mar 30, 2019 9:40:06 GMT -8
Colin, Since the Athearn SW7 predates their S-12 by a number of years, your reasoning isn't looking too good, there. However, the Athearn body IS about .1" too long and .04" too high. And a re-do of the NW2/SW7 would be very nice. Maybe Rapido will keep the ball rolling. Ed Excactly. The "SW1500" was introduced by Athearn in 1966 along with the GP35, SDP40, and the SD45, and the S12 was introduced in 1974.
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Post by 12bridge on Mar 30, 2019 10:47:00 GMT -8
A TR set would fill a major hole in switchers. The only one ever done was the Athearn bastardization. I can see them being hesitate to touch these, as they would need an all new frame tooled for them. There is what, 3 or 4 versions of the TR B unit?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 30, 2019 11:09:01 GMT -8
Why would a new frame need to be made?
Ed
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Post by 12bridge on Mar 30, 2019 11:17:07 GMT -8
The Proto uses a cast metal frame/step that is one piece. The Rapido, now that I think about it, would just need a new sill assembly.
The TR B units dont have steps on the one end. Either way, it would essentially have to be an all new model, even the hood would likely have to be retooled due to the way the cab portion fits together.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Mar 30, 2019 12:00:36 GMT -8
What I heard was that Athearn designed it to fit on the S-12 chassis they had already -- which is a bit longer, so the hood of the SW7 got longer. To keep the proportions correct, they made the hood taller as well. Baldwin S-12 prototype length: 46' 6 1/4",source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_S-12EMD SW7 prototype length: 44' 5", source: www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20SW7.HTMLThe difference in length works out to a bit more than 1/4" in HO scale, noticeable at least. Almost. The S-12 is crunched down to fit the SW chassis.
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Post by Judge Doom on Mar 30, 2019 14:55:54 GMT -8
The Proto uses a cast metal frame/step that is one piece. The Rapido, now that I think about it, would just need a new sill assembly. The TR B units dont have steps on the one end. Either way, it would essentially have to be an all new model, even the hood would likely have to be retooled due to the way the cab portion fits together. I think you're thinking of the older Atlas S-series switchers that have the frame/sill as one metal piece. The Proto 2000 units have a plastic body & sill that rests on a metal chassis, like most modern production models these days have. It wouldn't be too hard for Walthers to tool up a new SW7 body/sill and plop it on their existing chassis mechanism. The Kato is similar but uses a wonky N-scale-ish split-frame chassis, that some people chuck in favour of putting them on a P2K chassis. The proto S line, considering its age, are fantastic switchers. They pull great and have lots of detail. The issue is they are not even remotely DCC friendly. Doable, just not a plug and play. I would like to see the Proto S line revived, or somebody else step up and do them. Atlas was supposedly going to do the rest of theirs after the S2, but that never happened. Au contraire, the P2K S1/S3 units have DCC 8-pin plugs and are wired to be DCC plug and play. It's a little tight under there however, but the provisions are made. The earlier SW9/1200 and the like need to be hardwired, but it's relatively easy considering it's just a matter of connecting the wires and stashing the decoder somewhere. Or one could use the specially-designed NCE P2K drop-in replacement decoder making it a snap. A "definitive model" of the SW7 would be very cool. We have the Athearn blue box version (incorrectly labeled SW1500 for years); and the "Broadway". I really don't consider Broadway Limited a source for anything diesel; but that's me. Athearn could spruce theirs up like they did the actual SW1500; put the mashima motor in it; and re-tool the shell and frame. Kato's NW2 probably won't ever get a different version...and their switchers really lack the detail when compared to the Genesis MP15AC and RTR SW1500. Athearn's better off forgetting everything about their SW7/SW1500 and tooling up one from scratch. Or better yet, Walthers or Rapido tackling it as an extension of their existing SW tooling. The Athearn cab is horrible, the hood is too long and the detail clunky or could be done better. Throw the baby and bathwater out together and start over with crisper more modern modular SW7 tooling.
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Post by 12bridge on Mar 30, 2019 15:43:14 GMT -8
Judge,
The new Walthers/Proto SW's have cast metal chassis, similar to how the Atlas switchers are.
I must have forgotten the S1 has an 8 pin plug - I simply gut and rewire everything from scratch these days anyway.
The Kato NW2 is a pretty good model, but it is long, long outdated. It is by far one of the hardest DCC installs one can do. I have yet to attempt putting one on a Proto drive. They sure can outpull just about anything with that oversize N scale drive.
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