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Post by cprengineer on Apr 17, 2019 19:28:50 GMT -8
NP had two REAL FP7's: 6600 & 6601. They went to BN as 9792 and 9794. They were bought for service on NP's trains 61/62 (St. Paul and Duluth) and 11/12 (St. Paul and International Falls). NOT for the North Coast Limited or the Mainstreeter. GN had a goodly number of boiler equipped A-unit F's. At least in a GN diagram book, they were called F's. Ed The FP7's were later rolled into the regular passenger locomotive rotation, so they would have made occasional runs runs on the MCL and MS.
And Walthers has already done a Proto passenger F7 for the Empire Builder and Manymany Chiefs, so if they were to do the NCL, most of the locomotive details are already tooled. But why not do the NP FP7's, as well?
I'm glad to see the Hiawathas being rerun, as I think there's still a market for them. But I'd also like to see the NCL. I know tooling costs have gone up considerably in recent years, but maybe it's time Walthers does an all-new train again, instead of minor retools being called "all new". Even so, there are a number of items from the EB, such as the domes and even possibly the observation cars, that could be used in an NCL, as well as the aforementioned Slumbercoaches. That ought to offer some savings, if only a little bit. All I can say is to keep posting to the new product suggestion page on the Walthers website, and keep the faith!
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Post by fmilhaupt on Apr 18, 2019 4:09:03 GMT -8
Didn't the NP have some baggage-express cars outfitted with water tanks to feed the steam generators in the F-units?
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Post by fmilhaupt on Apr 18, 2019 4:20:16 GMT -8
It looks like Walthers tooled up a new single-window door for the baggage-express car. Not exactly what Wade Wilson would call "maximum effort", but a change. Since I built out the TC Hiawatha during its first run, this doesn't do anything for me. However, I think that the three-car "Cannonball" offering is an interesting experiment. I really hope that it succeeds, and proves the value of having a shorter train available. Yes, you and I know that anyone could order just those cars a la carte and do the same thing as the pre-packaged "Cannonball", but this might be an eye-opener for some folks who'd just write the whole release off as 9-10 cars being too big a set to get into. A lot of our brethren, whose money is just as good as ours, sometimes just need a little nudge, and a little information, to see that there are shorter consists they can make from these cars.
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Post by roadkill on Apr 18, 2019 6:18:28 GMT -8
A lot of our brethren, whose money is just as good as ours, sometimes just need a little nudge, and a little information, to see that there are shorter consists they can make from these cars. This! Walthers could do many shorter trains with what they already have, just takes a little research.
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Post by stevewagner on Apr 18, 2019 7:15:19 GMT -8
Re what el3672 wrote about Erie Lackawanna stand-ins:
Rapido's model of the EL "Spirit of Youngstown" and another named for the same city are actually spot on correct for those sleepers. I have the "Spirit" because it spent some time on the Delaware & Hudson, still in EL livery.
I concentrate mostly on D&H and B&M, with some CN, CP and numerous sleepers and head end cars from other roads. One of these days I'll want to get a Milwaukee Road baggage car in orange and maroon.
I'm delighted that Walthers may be bringing back its kit for the building the firm once occupied on North Water Street in downtown Milwaukee. I visited the place in the early 1960s, and putting a partial version of the kit as a background structure on my layout is very tempting.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 18, 2019 7:16:49 GMT -8
Didn't the NP have some baggage-express cars outfitted with water tanks to feed the steam generators in the F-units? Yes. NP 400-407 and 1650-1655. Ed
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Apr 18, 2019 22:15:16 GMT -8
Wish they would've dug out the Proto 1000 tooling and done some Erie Builts for these trains.
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wsor
Full Member
The Route of the Ruptured Duck
Posts: 131
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Post by wsor on Apr 19, 2019 5:33:11 GMT -8
Wish they would've dug out the Proto 1000 tooling and done some Erie Builts for these trains. Which Erie-Builts, though? The early ones had different cab windows. The Erie-Builts only lasted until 1963 or so, in yellow and gray, while the FP7s lasted into the 1970s. I'll probably look to acquire a yellow Skytop. Other than that, unsure if I'll get any more. I'm covered with the pair of Genesis FP7s and FP45 I have.
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Post by trainguy99 on Apr 19, 2019 13:06:24 GMT -8
The P1K Erie Builts are decent midrange models but not up to today's detail standards. They also have molded grabs.
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Post by cprengineer on Apr 19, 2019 18:28:20 GMT -8
The P1K Erie Builts are decent midrange models but not up to today's detail standards. They also have molded grabs. If P1k is analogous to today's Mainline series, would it be beyond the pale to re-tool to remove the molded-on grabs, and re-issue them? It could be done, but I wouldn't hold my breath. They are decent models, and I doubt anyone else will ever do them in plastic anymore.
I have a former UP P1k Erie-Built B unit that I scrubbed the lettering off of, and lettered Milwaukee with a set of Streamstyle Graphics decals. The yellow is a bit orangey for my taste, but it mixes up the consist from the all-EMD lashups usually seen. I'll probably weather the snot out of it, because they were oily beasts in their yellow years anyway. At the end of their careers, the FM cabs were seen in Chicago commuter service, while the B's stayed on in the mainline passenger pool, until being used for trade-in credit on the GP30's.
Marty
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 19, 2019 20:12:23 GMT -8
The P1K Erie Builts are decent midrange models but not up to today's detail standards. They also have molded grabs. If P1k is analogous to today's Mainline series, would it be beyond the pale to re-tool to remove the molded-on grabs, and re-issue them?
Well, yes. Walthers only does "Mainline". P1K is "mainline". There would be no reason to re-tool, since it is already at Walthers' standard. This can also explain why, although Walthers has P2K versions of the Alco FA1's, they only do their "mainline" version. Walthers is currently only a "mainline" operation. They will not produce anything high-end. Ed
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 20, 2019 1:26:39 GMT -8
Walthers is currently only a "mainline" operation. They will not produce anything high-end. Ed Odd. I have two brand new Proto GP9's with Loksound. Have to say I don't think they are really worth around 90 bux more than the Mainline version, but yes they do make Proto's yet.
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Post by trainguy99 on Apr 20, 2019 4:17:47 GMT -8
If P1k is analogous to today's Mainline series, would it be beyond the pale to re-tool to remove the molded-on grabs, and re-issue them?
Well, yes. Walthers only does "Mainline". P1K is "mainline". There would be no reason to re-tool, since it is already at Walthers' standard. This can also explain why, although Walthers has P2K versions of the Alco FA1's, they only do their "mainline" version. Walthers is currently only a "mainline" operation. They will not produce anything high-end. Ed Actually the new Mainline F units have separate handrails, and so do the Alco PAs. Plus they retooled the Proto Geeps and SW1200, and just announced a new Proto FP7. The new Proto Jordan Spreader is pretty cool. So while they may not be making the things you want, it looks like they are making Proto items.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 20, 2019 5:09:56 GMT -8
"They will not produce anything high end"
My Walthers Proto GP9s, GP30s, GP35s and GP60s would say otherwise!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 6:11:47 GMT -8
"Proto Jordan Spreader"--what's new about it? (other than the plastic they squirted in the old molds)
Yes, they have re-issued a lot of P2K stuff. How innovative. Keep in mind that that stuff was sold by a company called Lifelike previous to Walthers.
We COULD add in the Proto F's, of course. Like the GN ones I bought, that had generic roof details and no cut levers or air lines.
Please give me a list of the Proto stuff that Walthers has created from scratch over the last, oh, 5 years. A few passenger cars come to mind.
Ed
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Post by 12bridge on Apr 20, 2019 6:33:05 GMT -8
"Proto Jordan Spreader"--what's new about it? (other than the plastic they squirted in the old molds) Yes, they have re-issued a lot of P2K stuff. How innovative. Keep in mind that that stuff was sold by a company called Lifelike previous to Walthers. We COULD add in the Proto F's, of course. Like the GN ones I bought, that had generic roof details and no cut levers or air lines. Please give me a list of the Proto stuff that Walthers has created from scratch over the last, oh, 5 years. A few passenger cars come to mind. Ed There is not one single part that is recycled from the old Jordan Spreader. This one is a 100% new tooling.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 20, 2019 6:38:44 GMT -8
Sounds pretty innovative to me!
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Post by 12bridge on Apr 20, 2019 6:41:08 GMT -8
And also... There is so little in common anymore with the Walthers Proto engines, compared to the original Life Like stuff. A very large portion of them have been completely re-tooled, not to mention all new drives as well.
Typical manufacturer hate because something new that is not wanted by a specific person.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 7:12:01 GMT -8
"Proto Jordan Spreader"--what's new about it? (other than the plastic they squirted in the old molds) Yes, they have re-issued a lot of P2K stuff. How innovative. Keep in mind that that stuff was sold by a company called Lifelike previous to Walthers. We COULD add in the Proto F's, of course. Like the GN ones I bought, that had generic roof details and no cut levers or air lines. Please give me a list of the Proto stuff that Walthers has created from scratch over the last, oh, 5 years. A few passenger cars come to mind. Ed There is not one single part that is recycled from the old Jordan Spreader. This one is a 100% new tooling. That's what I read. But when I opened the box, I had trouble seeing that. How do you know? Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 9:37:17 GMT -8
I was just on their website. There are currently 920 items in the Proto line There are 910 items in the Mainline series [/quote] Of the Proto: 184 locomotives showing. The only thing that Walthers created on their own was the GP35 phase II. And that was not a total winner. And, of course, there's the upcoming FP7. 67 freight cars. There's flush decks. Pretty nice. Pretty old. Evans 4780's--not really high end at all. Some 53' well cars--kinda nice. And some tank cars--Walthers not being known for being very good at tank cars. I guess that would leave several hundred passenger cars. I didn't look. I think the last full train Walthers did was the 20th Century. Very nice. I would have bought one if I had felt more flush. Not much since. So. Does the above list look like Walthers is actually committed to high-end stuff? Aside from (maybe) the intermodal, is there anything up above that can compete with Genesis Tangent Moloco Exactrail................. Ed
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Post by simulatortrain on Apr 20, 2019 12:20:08 GMT -8
There is not one single part that is recycled from the old Jordan Spreader. This one is a 100% new tooling. That's what I read. But when I opened the box, I had trouble seeing that. How do you know? Ed While I can't confirm that no parts are reused, they aren't the same prototype. I have an old one I built from a kit when I was a little too young to do so, with eventual plans to salvage it as a WM spreader. When the new one was announced, I was excited to potentially save myself the work, but it's different and a lot further from my prototype.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 12:45:30 GMT -8
That's odd. I just looked at the Walthers site. They have a shot of one of the old kit ones there (932-5359), and I can't see any difference between it and the current ones.
Ed
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Post by simulatortrain on Apr 20, 2019 13:24:17 GMT -8
That's odd. I just looked at the Walthers site. They have a shot of one of the old kit ones there (932-5359), and I can't see any difference between it and the current ones. Ed Maybe they have some alternate pieces now. I remember differences with cylinders and blades before.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 13:46:01 GMT -8
The current undec kit seems to give you parts to do every version, except you don't get the plain-bearing trucks.
It appears they strengthened the hinge points, so that the flexi-pieces work better and more reliably. I AM looking forward to building mine, and turning it into SP&S X-4 or X-19.
Ed
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Post by 12bridge on Apr 20, 2019 15:56:55 GMT -8
Old on Left, New on Right. Old on top, new on bottom. Old on top, new on bottom. Old on Left, new on Right. Old on top, new on bottom. Old on Left, new on Right. Old on Left, new on Right. There is not one single reused piece in the new Spreader. The only thing in common between them is that they are both Jordan 2-200 Spreaders.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 20, 2019 16:07:46 GMT -8
Thank you very much. GREAT photos!
I can't imagine WHY they redid it, but I'm glad they did. New one's better.
I hope the fact that the first run of undecs of a re-do of an old model was a complete sell-out (I mean the term in the good way) prompts them to further explore the possibilities.
But.
They do seem to me to be enamoured of the Mainline concept.
Ed
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Post by carrman on Apr 20, 2019 17:50:01 GMT -8
"Proto Jordan Spreader"--what's new about it? (other than the plastic they squirted in the old molds) Yes, they have re-issued a lot of P2K stuff. How innovative. Keep in mind that that stuff was sold by a company called Lifelike previous to Walthers. We COULD add in the Proto F's, of course. Like the GN ones I bought, that had generic roof details and no cut levers or air lines. Please give me a list of the Proto stuff that Walthers has created from scratch over the last, oh, 5 years. A few passenger cars come to mind. Ed The GP35.
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Post by simulatortrain on Apr 21, 2019 8:22:19 GMT -8
Thanks for those spreader comparison shots. Not sure what I was looking at before and thinking I was seeing big differences. From other shots online, it does appear they give two different options for the cylinders up top next to the cab.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 22, 2019 6:51:53 GMT -8
Thank you very much. GREAT photos! I can't imagine WHY they redid it, but I'm glad they did. New one's better. I hope the fact that the first run of undecs of a re-do of an old model was a complete sell-out (I mean the term in the good way) prompts them to further explore the possibilities. But. They do seem to me to be enamoured of the Mainline concept. Ed Of course they're enamored with Mainline. It's their bread and butter. It's what sells.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 22, 2019 7:26:49 GMT -8
Of course they're enamored with Mainline. It's their bread and butter. It's what sells. That does explain a lot. Too bad Proto doesn't sell. Ed
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