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Post by Baikal on Sept 26, 2022 7:38:26 GMT -8
Not true. You need to review the facts, and your timeline is fantasy.
Like you know what happened.
You can't make the arguement that Rapido is an honest company (see: multiple broken promises and massive BS & boasting). So it's just a matter of degrees of dishonesty we're talking about. Like I said, business as usual for some people.
On the other hand there are honest companies, like Bowser. In fact most model RR companies are honest. A company is a reflection of it's people.
I think you need to put the pipe down, because you are dreaming up some pretty hilarious (and blatantly false) alternate history.
So you're saying Rapido is an honorable company. Facts show otherwise, as seen here in multiple complaints about dishonest marketing.
It's a company that repeatly says one thing, then does another. Prove me wrong.
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Post by typhoon on Sept 26, 2022 11:10:38 GMT -8
I think you need to put the pipe down, because you are dreaming up some pretty hilarious (and blatantly false) alternate history.
So you're saying Rapido is an honorable company. Facts show otherwise, as seen here in multiple complaints about dishonest marketing.
It's a company that repeatly says one thing, then does another. Prove me wrong.
Complaints are not always fact based. One of the Rapido "complaints" was that Rio Grande PA's did not have black painted grab irons. Pictures from a 2 second Google search proved otherwise. You hate Rapido, we got it. No one really cares. Don't buy from them, I am sure they will do just fine. |
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Post by Baikal on Sept 26, 2022 11:16:22 GMT -8
I'd buy an Atlas or Bowser RSD12. I've avoided the BLI "comes with smoke sooner or later whether you want it or not" engines. Edit: Even if you discount the Mexico and Brazil engines, 69 US units is more than the C430 sold. Two to three paint schemes per original owner. Not disputing that at all. However, the C-430 actually won an online poll as being THE most desired diesel model that had not already been made in plastic. It was over on the original Atlas Forum...
In January 2008, 2010, and 2013, relatively well-formed "Most Wanted Diesel" surveys were conducted across 3 to 5 model RR forums, including here. Results were widely distributed, including to manufacturers. Almost 200 people responded in 2013. Top-8 "Most Wanted" models for each year: 2008: GP7 / GP9 / B units RS-3 U25B U25C S-6 / T-6 E7 SD39 C-636 2010: GP7 / GP9 / GP18 / GP20 U25C C-636 / M630 / M636 C-415 S-5 / S-6 / T-6 SW-1 U25B RS-3 2013: U25C / Early U28C C-415 SDP45 S-5 / S-6 / T-6 SDP40F U33B / U36B B23 / 30 / 36-7 family SD40-2
What was the survey on the Old ARF? Is there a summary of the results somewhere? I'm glad many of these models have been made, inc the C-430. Still waiting for the C-415, I'll buy a couple- SP & SP&S. I think it would be a good seller.
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Post by atsf_4 on Sept 26, 2022 17:35:22 GMT -8
Hey Typhoon--
A more thorough picture search of Rio Grande Alco PA-1's reveals that more of the photos actually indicate the grab irons were painted adjacent body color, whether Grande Gold, silver, grey on top the nose, or green on top the nose (both colors of top nose paint were used) than black. Also the two second search of Google does not explain why Rapido used the wrong type of grab irons on their PA's? Most if not all real PA's did not have drop style grab irons. The two second search does not explain why Rapido could not be bothered to mold the bolt heads onto the body, as they are now doing on the GP-38, and why they could not be bothered to use actual metal scale sized grab irons instead of oversized ridiculously fat plastic grab irons. (Note they've had some project managers leave for whatever reason I won't speculate).
The two second Google search does NOT explain why when pilot models were commented upon, and the error was caught, Rapido still chose to have their factory glue the brake cylinders onto the trucks crooked on most PA-1 models, and one cannot even break all of them loose to fix that visually unappealing detail (in real life, if not mounted horizontally, the brake cylinders would fail more often due to uneven wear.) That's why the real railroads have them in a horizontal position in the first place.
There still were issues with both the headlight bezel and the front windows and adjacent trim piece as modeled by Rapido.
Their "stainless steel finish" does not look like stainless steel. Athearn, Walthers Proto series, and BLI all manage to do a better job on "stainless steel".
Finally, it seems actually kinda unwise, that Rapido showed photos of sample models, allegedly for comments, when it turned out the actual models were already on the water. It's a bit late at that point to change anything, unless they never intended to make any revisions at all and were maybe just trying to pacify somebody, idk, or generate some kind of favorable buzz?
I'm actively looking for certain passenger diesels. If/when the E-8 arrives, if it is better than the PA-1, I might buy multiples. However, both the BLI E units (I know are not perfect models either) and the Walthers Proto E units will probably still be available at a better price point. I need to learn more about which models and versions. I just got a BLI PRR E-8 and a CB&Q Walthers Proto E-9 is in the mail.
I could or would be interested in Rapido E units. However, the unpainted bare plastic few sample models available on their website are somewhat uninspiring to say the least, and I've learned the vivid lesson that one cannot trust their drawings, as their drawings do not match the finished models delivered (LV PA's with different roof color than drawing, and of course those DRGW black grab irons that were not shown on the drawings).
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Post by Baikal on Sept 26, 2022 18:48:25 GMT -8
I'm actively looking for certain passenger diesels. If/when the E-8 arrives, if it is better than the PA-1, I might buy multiples. However, both the BLI E units (I know are not perfect models either) and the Walthers Proto E units will probably still be available at a better price point. I need to learn more about which models and versions. I just got a BLI PRR E-8 and a CB&Q Walthers Proto E-9 is in the mail.
There's a review in the Sept RMC of the Broadway ATSF E1A & B. They came out over 2 years ago(?) Pretty nice looking model, all-around. Replace all the electronics.
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Post by Baikal on Sept 27, 2022 6:29:44 GMT -8
So you're saying Rapido is an honorable company. Facts show otherwise, as seen here in multiple complaints about dishonest marketing.
It's a company that repeatly says one thing, then does another. Prove me wrong.
Complaints are not always fact based...
Yet the vast majority (95 percent +) of the complaints about the Rapido PA & E unit are true. (It doesn't matter that you don't believe in photos).
Rapido repeatedly over-promises then fails to deliver. Says one thing, then does another... There's a word for that.
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Post by schroed2 on Sept 27, 2022 8:42:24 GMT -8
Rapido repeatedly over-promises then fails to deliver. Says one thing, then does another... .
true, but I would rather suspect some degree of incompetence (in combination with overadvertising) there then intention. What I find especially strange is the wide variety in their products...even the same model sometimes looks much better for some roadnames then for others |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Sept 27, 2022 8:48:37 GMT -8
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
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Post by typhoon on Sept 27, 2022 13:12:02 GMT -8
Hey Typhoon-- A more thorough picture search of Rio Grande Alco PA-1's reveals that more of the photos actually indicate the grab irons were painted adjacent body color, whether Grande Gold, silver, grey on top the nose, or green on top the nose (both colors of top nose paint were used) than black. And your point would be? There are far more pictures on the internet of a PRR RSD12 with the name spelled out along the hood than the Keystone logo only scheme. If Bowser came out with the Keystone logo only on a RSD12 model, that would not make the scheme incorrect, regardless of the amount of pictures searched. |
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Post by keystonefarm on Sept 27, 2022 13:27:43 GMT -8
Hey Typhoon-- A more thorough picture search of Rio Grande Alco PA-1's reveals that more of the photos actually indicate the grab irons were painted adjacent body color, whether Grande Gold, silver, grey on top the nose, or green on top the nose (both colors of top nose paint were used) than black. And your point would be? There are far more pictures on the internet of a PRR RSD12 with the name spelled out along the hood than the Keystone logo only scheme. If Bowser came out with the Keystone logo only on a RSD12 model, that would not make the scheme incorrect, regardless of the amount of pictures searched. The PRR ordered the RSD-12's to replace early F unit helpers in the Altoona area. They purchased the RSD-7's with steam generators for passenger helpers. The paint scheme in 1956-57-58 was the spelled out Pennsylvania with no keystones . Later on in the mid 60's some of the RSD-12's moved to yard and transfer service. Some were repainted in the larger cab number/keystone scheme and some were simply renumbered with the Pennsylvania still on the hood sides. All were renumbered in the June 1966 pre PC renumbering so after that date all units would have had the larger numbers on cab sides . Looks like at least 3 different paint schemes on the PRR alone . Original scheme in the 8600 series, renumber scheme 6800 series with Pennsylvania on the hood side and complete repaint Keystone only scheme in the 6800 series. At least 2 in PC as a few did get the red P. --- Ken |
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Post by trainiax on Nov 20, 2023 19:38:33 GMT -8
I'm a year late in answering here, but I just spent the past week making RSD-12 drawings (for the first time). While I'm not familiar with all the HO model options, I think I can at least answer the questions about dimensions that weren't previously addressed. The RSD-12 is 14 inches longer than the RS-11 over the underframe. Above the walkway, all of that length was added immediately behind the cab: about 9.5" between the cab and the first hood seam, and about 4.5" between the seam and the first hood door. All the rest of the short hood, cab and long hood (including the hood-to-pilot distances) is exactly the same as on the RS-11 - with the following exceptions: 1. The dynamic brake hatch on the roof is 2 feet longer, with 3 instead of 2 bolted panels along the middle (as on the RSD-7 and RSD-15) 2. In place of the two widely spaced air intakes behind the cab, there are three unevenly spaced intakes 3. In place of the equipment box behind the cab on the conductor's side, there is a curved duct (which remained on later units when the equipment box was removed on concurrent RS-11 production) In the underframe, the walkway height is the same as the RS-11, but there are some minor height differences: - The bottom of the underframe is higher to clear the Tri-mount trucks - The outer walkway sideframe is slightly thinner (8.5" instead of 9.5") - The air reservoirs are mounted about 2" lower relative to the walkway, exposing the tops of the tanks None of these would be obvious on a model, although the air reservoirs would need to be relocated compared to the RS-11 to remain centered between the trucks. The most obvious difference (on a model shell) would be the wider jacking pads lined up with the truck centers, and the first 5 handrail stanchions spaced incrementally farther apart. Regarding related ALCO models: - The RSD-5 has truck centers that are 8" shorter than the RSD-12. While this doesn't sound like much, if a scale-sized fuel tank were used with the correct Tri-mount trucks with outer brake shoes, there would be clearance problems. - SP RSD-12's reused trucks from RSD-5's but were otherwise physically similar to other RSD-12's, including in all main dimensions. - An RSD-15 shell would not provide a very good base for the RSD-12 other than for the dynamic brake hatch and cab. The short hood, center hood section and radiators are all too long. Additionally, the trucks (in addition to being 8' 1" farther apart) are 3 inches farther from each pilot than on the RSD-12. I've posted the RSD-12 drawings (along with many earlier RS-11 drawings) online at trainiax.net |
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Post by Baikal on Nov 21, 2023 5:57:58 GMT -8
I'm a year late in answering here, but I just spent the past week making RSD-12 drawings (for the first time). While I'm not familiar with all the HO model options, I think I can at least answer the questions about dimensions that weren't previously addressed. The RSD-12 is 14 inches longer than the RS-11 over the underframe. Above the walkway, all of that length was added immediately behind the cab: about 9.5" between the cab and the first hood seam, and about 4.5" between the seam and the first hood door. All the rest of the short hood, cab and long hood (including the hood-to-pilot distances) is exactly the same as on the RS-11 - with the following exceptions: 1. The dynamic brake hatch on the roof is 2 feet longer, with 3 instead of 2 bolted panels along the middle (as on the RSD-7 and RSD-15) 2. In place of the two widely spaced air intakes behind the cab, there are three unevenly spaced intakes 3. In place of the equipment box behind the cab on the conductor's side, there is a curved duct (which remained on later units when the equipment box was removed on concurrent RS-11 production) In the underframe, the walkway height is the same as the RS-11, but there are some minor height differences: - The bottom of the underframe is higher to clear the Tri-mount trucks - The outer walkway sideframe is slightly thinner (8.5" instead of 9.5") - The air reservoirs are mounted about 2" lower relative to the walkway, exposing the tops of the tanks None of these would be obvious on a model, although the air reservoirs would need to be relocated compared to the RS-11 to remain centered between the trucks. The most obvious difference (on a model shell) would be the wider jacking pads lined up with the truck centers, and the first 5 handrail stanchions spaced incrementally farther apart. Regarding related ALCO models: - The RSD-5 has truck centers that are 8" shorter than the RSD-12. While this doesn't sound like much, if a scale-sized fuel tank were used with the correct Tri-mount trucks with outer brake shoes, there would be clearance problems. - SP RSD-12's reused trucks from RSD-5's but were otherwise physically similar to other RSD-12's, including in all main dimensions. - An RSD-15 shell would not provide a very good base for the RSD-12 other than for the dynamic brake hatch and cab. The short hood, center hood section and radiators are all too long. Additionally, the trucks (in addition to being 8' 1" farther apart) are 3 inches farther from each pilot than on the RSD-12. I've posted the RSD-12 drawings (along with many earlier RS-11 drawings) online at trainiax.net
Great info Trainiax. I bookedmarked your drawings page.
So it's pretty safe to say that SP's RSD-12s (21 units delivered early 1961) were not truly"rebuilds" of their RSD-5s but just trade-ins that reused the trucks and maybe a few other components. But not the frames. I've read that SP carried the RSD-12's on the books as rebuilds for accounting reasons.
I've always considered the loco frame the component that determines the unit's heritage. A new frame = different loco. Re-used frame = rebuild, upgrade, etc.
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