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Post by hudsonyard on Jan 1, 2023 9:34:21 GMT -8
Heard in a couple different places that the Whitcomb they did does not have RP-25 wheels and has a big fat euro style traction tire, definitely some work to be done to get it to run on an American layout, I'd imagine these are similar.
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Post by Baikal on Jan 1, 2023 10:44:41 GMT -8
Heard in a couple different places that the Whitcomb they did does not have RP-25 wheels and has a big fat euro style traction tire, definitely some work to be done to get it to run on an American layout, I'd imagine these are similar.
Whitcomb doesn't have RP-25 flanges, but nothing like pizza-cutters.
I've seen one running on a layout in Arizona, USA. Why would it not run on your "American layout"?
I hope the KM doesn't have traction tires, or they can be easily replaced.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 1, 2023 11:29:14 GMT -8
I believe one can order replacement wheelsets for the Whitcomb from Piko without the traction tire(s).
The K-M's for the American market are apparently a ways out. They are expected to make variations of the paint schemes and of the detailing.
For a locomotive that only had six copies in the US, I think they'll sell pretty well.
Ed
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Post by keystonefarm on Jan 1, 2023 13:31:37 GMT -8
I believe one can order replacement wheelsets for the Whitcomb from Piko without the traction tire(s). The K-M's for the American market are apparently a ways out. They are expected to make variations of the paint schemes and of the detailing. For a locomotive that only had six copies in the US, I think they'll sell pretty well. Ed Nope no replacement wheelsets yet. The part number is 52464-61. I've tried numerous sites with no success. --- Ken |
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 1, 2023 14:40:44 GMT -8
Of course Rivarossi made these with several runs both sold by AHM and Rivarossi themselves. I will grab them at shows if they're priced cheap because they usually sell for a decent price on eBay. So I also think these will sell well.
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thmy
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Post by thmy on Jan 1, 2023 16:30:20 GMT -8
No #9010 option? That should have been a no brainer but Piko comes up empty on that for some reason.
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Post by ssw on Jan 1, 2023 16:51:33 GMT -8
No #9010 option? That should have been a no brainer but Piko comes up empty on that for some reason. Other than both being Maybach powered, 9010 and the 9000's that PIKO are doing are two completely different beasts. |
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Jan 1, 2023 16:52:40 GMT -8
No #9010 option? That should have been a no brainer but Piko comes up empty on that for some reason. Piko is making the original 'cab unit' style with a full-width body. 9010 is the later 'hood unit' version that has the side walkways. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 1, 2023 17:32:44 GMT -8
If the American sales are "adequate", I expect Piko would do the later versions (SP 9003-9017). I'm gonna assume they could re-use the trucks and the drive system from the first version.
I see they're also planning on doing ACL 70 and 71--Whitcombs--this year.
Ed
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Post by Baikal on Jan 1, 2023 18:09:20 GMT -8
If the American sales are "adequate", I expect Piko would do the later versions (SP 9003-9017). I'm gonna assume they could re-use the trucks and the drive system from the first version. I see they're also planning on doing ACL 70 and 71--Whitcombs--this year. Ed
Trucks are different. The original "cab" units have odd European trucks, the later look like a equal spaced axle Trimount trucks with the outside equalizers.
I don't see anything on the exterior that's the same on the two versions. Probably different lengths too.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 1, 2023 18:22:23 GMT -8
Oh, my. I see. Yup, those trucks are certainly different.
"Never mind."
Ed
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Post by cera2254 on Jan 1, 2023 19:38:29 GMT -8
The original cab unit version isn’t bad looking, but that later version is woof. Lol Even the early version would have looked better if the whole unit was the height of the cab and didn’t have that step down.
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bz
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Post by bz on Jan 2, 2023 12:33:14 GMT -8
Well, it was worth joining the Forum to join in the discussion about the PIKO Krauss-Maffei. (When they shine the KM Bat Signal, BZ must answer!) :-)
Let's start at the top:
- The 1961 Prototypes are the only units on the docket at present. The 1964 Series Units are not currently in the pipe at PIKO.
- All significant configurations are under consideration for the U.S. market -- SP and DRGW, in various paint and detailing configurations.
- The U.S. release order may/will differ from the PIKO home market order of variations.
As far as the PIKO ML4000 models, yes they'll have RP25 flanges, DCC functions reflecting customary U.S. expectations, and custom sound files as far as we know at present. The information being used to develop has been gathered through the fourteen-year ongoing restoration efforts on the beautiful (!) sole surviving Series Unit roadswitcher, SP 9010 in Niles Canyon, California. There are bits of info that have never been well-known outside the people who worked on these units in the 1960s, and have never been correctly modeled or represented.
They will not be warmed-over 1960s Rivarossi -- which were very, very good for their time, save for a very odd drive system and TGV-ICE track speeds!
As for the future, there is interest in the 1964 Series Units too, by modelers. The market potential has always slowed other manufacturers from considering. The configuration and basic dimensions of the units are nearly identical, but all the details vary, with the exception of certain identical exterior components and fittings. There are absolutely no plans by PIKO to do the Series Units like 9010, but there is also absolutely no reason why the 1964 roadswitcher could not be a follow-on project. It's how well these do in the U.S. for PIKO that, of course, could determine that.
PIKO is establishing a good reputation with a couple of U.S.-facing models (Whitcomb and Sprinter DMU) and has a very solid track record of making quality, reliable, well-executed and detailed, good-running models.
Sound: there will likely be some custom recording of unique sounds to the U.S. version, and it's possible that the Series Unit, SP 9010, can provide some. Currently the rear Maybach 2,000HP turbo V-16 is under final rebuild process, and may not be up and running enough to go through a recording regime in time for production on the PIKO ML4000s. Sounds unique to the U.S. are the pre-lube pump startup sequence with the Brown-Boveri/BBC Dynastarter, as well as the U.S.-source ancillaries like the bronze bell, Nathan air horn, and various Westinghouse/Wabco air brake sounds. It's hoped those can be included.
The basic sound of a twin MD870/1 V-16 KM has not surfaced in recordings in nearly fifteen years of public awareness! (If any are out there, please let the 9010 team know!) I heard the SP units at work; they do not sound like the existing locomotives in preservation which have the same motor, but only as a 'single.' Those units -- in Germany and in the UK -- have a more active exhaust note. The U.S. KMs were mellow, not roaring, and the closest sound to what I distinctly recall as a mellow note -- and have heard, briefly, from SP 9010's single working MD870/1 V-16 -- are the twin MD655 V-12 installations in British hydraulics built under license, and existing in preservation operation in the UK. PIKO also presumably has access to many exisiting prime mover sound file options, and I expect there to be very studious effort to get it right.
PIKO America are a great group, well aware of U.S. styles in modeling, and the expectations we all have for these unique units. I'll post what I can as things develop!
Also, one note: for nearly fifteen years, an international volunteer crew has taken a rusted "Titanic" of a railroad artifact, and created one of the most stunning and unlikely restorations of a diesel locomotive. When you work around the KM, you see what incredible, skill, and effort went into the craftsmanship and engineering. They failed in the U.S. for many reasons, economics as well as mechanical. But it's good to leave behind all assumptions about why they failed here, and appreciate them for what they attempted, within the bounds of very different cultures, regulations, customs, and mechanical standards.
To that end, the group in Niles Canyon has a jar. If you use the "U Word" for how they look, in goes five bucks towards the restoration! And when you spend any significant time studying and working around a USA KM, you begin to see them as beautiful, and I'm hardly joking. :-)
Cheers, and nice to be here!
~ Bob Z.
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bz
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Post by bz on Jan 2, 2023 12:39:26 GMT -8
More on the 1961 Krauss-Maffei diesel-hydraulic Prototypes is here, at the SP 9010 website: sp9010.ncry.org/cabunits.htmAlso, you can search Facebook for 'Southern Pacific 9010' to catch up on the incredible restoration process of SP 9010. ~ BZ |
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Post by Gino Damen on Jan 2, 2023 14:02:19 GMT -8
A very nice model and a brave move by Piko.
Do be aware that their decoders are of their own make and that currently they aren't easily programmed with JMRI. They do have their own programmer but that has a ridiculous price especially if you only need it for one engine.
But unlike BLI they also offer a decoderless option so you can add an decoder to your liking.
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Post by autocoach on Jan 3, 2023 16:53:46 GMT -8
They surely look like fun. If someone shows a photo of them testing on the BN, I'll start scrimpin' and savin'. Ed Before the BN existed... |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 3, 2023 17:24:08 GMT -8
Good point. I guess they were 10 years ahead of their time, in my little brain.
Put another way, steam was still running on UP just 5 years before them. And lots of other roads.
I have ZERO official excuse to buy some, but.......
Ed
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Post by slowfreight on Jan 3, 2023 17:33:31 GMT -8
Well, it was worth joining the Forum to join in the discussion about the PIKO Krauss-Maffei. (When they shine the KM Bat Signal, BZ must answer!) :-) Let's start at the top: - The 1961 Prototypes are the only units on the docket at present. The 1964 Series Units are not currently in the pipe at PIKO. - All significant configurations are under consideration for the U.S. market -- SP and DRGW, in various paint and detailing configurations. - The U.S. release order may/will differ from the PIKO home market order of variations. As far as the PIKO ML4000 models, yes they'll have RP25 flanges, DCC functions reflecting customary U.S. expectations, and custom sound files as far as we know at present. The information being used to develop has been gathered through the fourteen-year ongoing restoration efforts on the beautiful (!) sole surviving Series Unit roadswitcher, SP 9010 in Niles Canyon, California. There are bits of info that have never been well-known outside the people who worked on these units in the 1960s, and have never been correctly modeled or represented. They will not be warmed-over 1960s Rivarossi -- which were very, very good for their time, save for a very odd drive system and TGV-ICE track speeds! As for the future, there is interest in the 1964 Series Units too, by modelers. The market potential has always slowed other manufacturers from considering. The configuration and basic dimensions of the units are nearly identical, but all the details vary, with the exception of certain identical exterior components and fittings. There are absolutely no plans by PIKO to do the Series Units like 9010, but there is also absolutely no reason why the 1964 roadswitcher could not be a follow-on project. It's how well these do in the U.S. for PIKO that, of course, could determine that. PIKO is establishing a good reputation with a couple of U.S.-facing models (Whitcomb and Sprinter DMU) and has a very solid track record of making quality, reliable, well-executed and detailed, good-running models. Sound: there will likely be some custom recording of unique sounds to the U.S. version, and it's possible that the Series Unit, SP 9010, can provide some. Currently the rear Maybach 2,000HP turbo V-16 is under final rebuild process, and may not be up and running enough to go through a recording regime in time for production on the PIKO ML4000s. Sounds unique to the U.S. are the pre-lube pump startup sequence with the Brown-Boveri/BBC Dynastarter, as well as the U.S.-source ancillaries like the bronze bell, Nathan air horn, and various Westinghouse/Wabco air brake sounds. It's hoped those can be included. The basic sound of a twin MD870/1 V-16 KM has not surfaced in recordings in nearly fifteen years of public awareness! (If any are out there, please let the 9010 team know!) I heard the SP units at work; they do not sound like the existing locomotives in preservation which have the same motor, but only as a 'single.' Those units -- in Germany and in the UK -- have a more active exhaust note. The U.S. KMs were mellow, not roaring, and the closest sound to what I distinctly recall as a mellow note -- and have heard, briefly, from SP 9010's single working MD870/1 V-16 -- are the twin MD655 V-12 installations in British hydraulics built under license, and existing in preservation operation in the UK. PIKO also presumably has access to many exisiting prime mover sound file options, and I expect there to be very studious effort to get it right. PIKO America are a great group, well aware of U.S. styles in modeling, and the expectations we all have for these unique units. I'll post what I can as things develop! Also, one note: for nearly fifteen years, an international volunteer crew has taken a rusted "Titanic" of a railroad artifact, and created one of the most stunning and unlikely restorations of a diesel locomotive. When you work around the KM, you see what incredible, skill, and effort went into the craftsmanship and engineering. They failed in the U.S. for many reasons, economics as well as mechanical. But it's good to leave behind all assumptions about why they failed here, and appreciate them for what they attempted, within the bounds of very different cultures, regulations, customs, and mechanical standards. To that end, the group in Niles Canyon has a jar. If you use the "U Word" for how they look, in goes five bucks towards the restoration! And when you spend any significant time studying and working around a USA KM, you begin to see them as beautiful, and I'm hardly joking. :-) Cheers, and nice to be here! ~ Bob Z. Thanks for jumping in, Dr. Zenk! This is currently my favorite active restoration project for the sheer magnitude of effort and accuracy. I liken 9010 to the locomotive equivalent of a German automobile. Looking forward to some updates on Howard's progress reassembling everything. |
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bz
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Post by bz on Jan 3, 2023 21:32:59 GMT -8
Very welcome! I'll pass along the compliments!
~ BZ
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Post by bigblow69 on Jan 4, 2023 19:14:47 GMT -8
I welcome the addition of this unique loco to HO!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 4, 2023 19:59:55 GMT -8
I welcome the addition of this unique loco to HO! Uh. Re-addition:  Though likely with some improvements. Ed |
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Post by jonklein611 on Jan 5, 2023 7:12:17 GMT -8
Very welcome! I'll pass along the compliments! ~ BZ BZ, On a Piko related tangent I've been trying to chase down a Piko 97040 but they seem impossible to find anywhere. Is there anyplace to order one? |
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Post by Baikal on Jan 12, 2023 6:59:49 GMT -8
"The models will have RP-25 wheels" per PIKO, in writing.
Sereral vendors are accepting pre-orders.
...https://www.trainworld.com/piko-97445-ho-sp-km4000-diesel-9001-as-delivered-sound.html USD$310.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jan 25, 2023 13:11:16 GMT -8
Is there any guess as to when these will show up
?
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Post by slowfreight on Jan 25, 2023 13:50:09 GMT -8
Is there any guess as to when these will show up ? I thought of half a dozen responses to that question, none helpful but many quite humorous. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Jan 25, 2023 14:53:23 GMT -8
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Post by valenciajim on Mar 20, 2023 17:26:51 GMT -8
I have not had an opportunity to post much in the past couple of months, but I did want to say that I reserved three of these (one of each number) from Reynaulds. When I spoke with the salesperson at Reynaulds, he was very knowledgeable about this model.
With respect to the sound, apparently there are recordings of the sounds emitted by the prototype which Piko has located. As a side note, about twelve years ago I purchased a brass Krauss Moffei from Caboose Hobbies. I had them install a decoder and sound. They located a sound chip which they claimed was authentic. While I cannot vouch for the authenticity, I certainly can say that the sound was unique. Unfortunately, the locomotive did not run well and now is a static model.
Getting back to information from the guy at Reynaulds, he told me that the November expected delivery date may be a bit optimistic. He said that Piko and the other German manufacturers have been experiencing delays in deliveries of European prototypes because they are having difficulties getting the chips needed for sound and DCC. I have waited for this model for years, so I guess I can wait a while longer. I am truly excited to see these.
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Post by Gino Damen on Apr 12, 2023 12:45:29 GMT -8
Hi, Changes are that they reuse the sound they have from German engines. Those are diesel-hydraulic. For a idea search the ESU-website for Maybach 870 (MB 870 engine). projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/search?q=maybach+870The first engine is the BR 216 / V160 which has a single MB 870. The ML400 has two of these. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jan 5, 2024 10:56:44 GMT -8
Is there any guess as to when these will show up ? ???Why yes, Karl....Jan 4, 24 THEY'RE HERE!!! Sold out at Piko  Mine is enroute from Brooklyn.. Anyone have an idea on decoder for a silent one?  |
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Post by Christian on Jan 5, 2024 13:43:49 GMT -8
Hi, Changes are that they reuse the sound they have from German engines. Those are diesel-hydraulic. According to Bob Zink, (posts as "Notch16") the idle sounds are from the preserved unit at Niles Canyon which has only one engine. Running sound which isn't as distinctive comes from locomotives in Germany. Again, according to Zink PIKO has a sound department and has for quite some time made their own decoder files. Zink (who consulted on the project) noted that from inception to delivery the project took PIKO twelve months. According to PIKO's website, there are over 600 PIKO employees. A project green-lighted by PIKO moves quickly. |
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