|
Post by crblue on Feb 3, 2023 21:19:04 GMT -8
I'm pretty excited for the 611. I think the MTH model is the best version, and am looking forward to the ScaleTrains re-run, along with the N&W passenger cars.
|
|
|
Post by nsc39d8 on Feb 4, 2023 6:52:13 GMT -8
How is the ScaleTrains running quality? Esp at slow speeds.
So far in my testing and speed matching efforts the Scaletrains does fine. The Proto seemed to start at a lower voltage and has a ESU Lokpilot 5 where the Scaletrains has a Loksound 5. I did the autotune with them matched together but they did not pair up to great with this. I had to tweak CV2 a little on the sound decoder. Side note: I use Sergent couplers between my consisted locos so there is no coupler play between them.
|
|
|
Post by ssw on Feb 4, 2023 8:22:54 GMT -8
I am not seeing rudeness or arrogance from ScaleTrains in the above post. If it's there, it disappeared (for me) in the "crudeness" of the copy/paste job. I am not entirely sure who said/wrote what. Ed I used to be a member (key word there) of the club in question. That I am seeing one name from that group mentioned and then there is an ensuing blow up tells me nothing has changed there since I left 5 years ago.
|
|
tomoc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by tomoc on Feb 4, 2023 8:56:59 GMT -8
Interesting here-say discussions. Facebook replies are meaningless in my book as proof of anything.
I have ST equipment, I have issues with the couplers but have no issues with quality of running. I maybe have been lucky.
I have Rapido, Intermountain and Athearn Genesis but have had issues with a few things. Tangent and Exactrail have been wonderful. I am a model railroader and it doesn’t bother me to fix something minor. While I agree the QC has slipped across the board for Chinese products everyone and their brother should have expected that with the Covid crisis over there. It still is up to these RR model Manufacturers to QC the products before it hits the market. With the price we pay, QC should be 95%+. I will have no issue returning product to my dealer or direct.
I think ST has done a great service to the modeling community by airing publicly the QC mess that they brought on themselves. They are IMO rushing things to market and need a pause to make things right again. But to state the extent that they have issues is commendable IMO.
Those Shane haters, who cares what you think on personal complaints. I have a friend of a friend who says ST is a great place to work.
Thanks for the tutorial on the Blocking member button. I have used it successfully twice.
Road tripping. Most higher ups in business (any business, big or small) in the USA leverage their office or company standing to turn something personal into a tax deductible business trip. Until the tax codes are changed that will always be the case. But that might be political so I won’t go further than that. Let’s just says, it’s very common.
Enjoy the day TomO
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 4, 2023 9:23:59 GMT -8
Yeah. Gets me thinking of all those musicians who go "on the road". Gotta wonder how many of those are just so they can write off the cost for their idyllic cross country jaunt.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 4, 2023 12:29:30 GMT -8
I went to the Scale Trains gathering here in Omaha, I found it interesting and informative. Except for potential product announcements, Shane didn't dodge any questions.
|
|
|
Post by hudsonyard on Feb 4, 2023 13:09:49 GMT -8
Yeah. Gets me thinking of all those musicians who go "on the road". Gotta wonder how many of those are just so they can write off the cost for their idyllic cross country jaunt. Ed
I would have loved to have written off some of the dozen or so tours I did between 2010 and 2020, and when you're working road crew for someone it turns into a tax headache once you start to make a livable wage.
|
|
|
Post by crblue on Feb 4, 2023 16:15:42 GMT -8
I've worked for a few small companies, and the CEO position was mostly ceremonial. The board of directors would set the direction, the VP's would execute, and the CEO would travel the world trying to secure funding.
In ScaleTrains case, there's a lot of lone wolf model railroaders who aren't online. Maybe they're connected to clubs, or maybe they know someone in a club, and maybe they're the type to buy multiple thousands of dollars of trains. Given that ScaleTrains doesn't have a dealer model - not in the traditional way at least - driving across the US, meeting each and every modeler, seems like a great use of their advertizing budget. I met Shane at my local club some years back. He flew in, spoke, demo'd some trains, drove to a few other clubs in the area, then left. It was good advertizing. He met some guys who were ancient, who had no idea about Scale Trains, and don't know how to Internet. But now they do know about Scale Trains.
What I'm trying to say, is that just because they're reaching out to us modlers where we are, instead of posting humorous YouTube videos and expecting us to follow them online, well that's their choice. I doubt that a F-150 + Trailer is much more expensive than Jeremy Fleming's sallary for a few years. And if I'm being perfectly honest, I appreciate someone who reaches out to me, and tries something different.
|
|
|
Post by nsfantodd on Feb 4, 2023 17:22:35 GMT -8
Click on their username, click on the gear and click block member. That was easy, like the Easy Button from Staples.... Thanks, that was easy! I couldn't figure it out on my phone, then switched to desktop and it worked
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 4, 2023 20:51:51 GMT -8
I've worked for a few small companies, and the CEO position was mostly ceremonial. The board of directors would set the direction, the VP's would execute, and the CEO would travel the world trying to secure funding. In ScaleTrains case, there's a lot of lone wolf model railroaders who aren't online. Maybe they're connected to clubs, or maybe they know someone in a club, and maybe they're the type to buy multiple thousands of dollars of trains. Given that ScaleTrains doesn't have a dealer model - not in the traditional way at least - driving across the US, meeting each and every modeler, seems like a great use of their advertizing budget. I met Shane at my local club some years back. He flew in, spoke, demo'd some trains, drove to a few other clubs in the area, then left. It was good advertizing. He met some guys who were ancient, who had no idea about Scale Trains, and don't know how to Internet. But now they do know about Scale Trains. What I'm trying to say, is that just because they're reaching out to us modlers where we are, instead of posting humorous YouTube videos and expecting us to follow them online, well that's their choice. I doubt that a F-150 + Trailer is much more expensive than Jeremy Fleming's sallary for a few years. And if I'm being perfectly honest, I appreciate someone who reaches out to me, and tries something different. if someone is so out of the loop that they don't even know who Scaletrains is, what is the point of going to meet them at all? Do these people not even read MR or the like? If they are really that disconnected, they will never even know when Scaletrains (or anyone else) is coming out with a product. In the case of Scale Trains specifically, even if they somehow did find out something was coming out, they would not even be able to buy said product since they are 99% direct sales only. so the 'advertising benefit' of such a trip seems extremely low, from where I'm sitting.
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Feb 4, 2023 23:07:40 GMT -8
You'd be surprised how many guys don't do train shows or online. I know one guy who was close with the folks at Hojacks for years and has tons of stuff but rarely goes to shows. He got into other things and didn't even run his layout for years. I'm sure there's others, because I am always buying things cheap at the shows and they bring more online.
hence why a sales model that cuts out the normal wholesaler to hobbyshop channel is not the best idea.
One of the local auctioneers has a sale posted months out and there's some HO and N trains and looks like he hasn't bought anything new in 30 years. No layout, just a couple of shelves full of stuff. I will probably go, its local, but with these people sitting there looking it up on their phones it's getting harder and harder to buy stuff cheap enough where I can make any money on it.
|
|
tomoc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by tomoc on Feb 5, 2023 7:41:07 GMT -8
I don’t follow the logic that you need a “dealer” network to sell Scaletrains. We have writings from folks here and on other forums that don’t have Local Hobby Shops. So why have a dealer network? If modelers don’t have the LHS it’s the internet they must rely on or shows. But ST does have a network. It maybe smaller then we would like but there are quite a few spread across the country. The price they sell online and what the dealer sells at is the same. Heck if you spend enough direct it is free shipping from ST. That’s a good deal to me.
As for the road shows, while personally I am not a fan, IMO it’s great publicity. I’d much rather meet ST and other Mfg’s at a train show. Rapido does the occasional dog and pony show but we don’t seem to hear complaints about that. Jason is the owner there so does that allow some slack that we are not allowing the lead guy(Shane) but admittedly not the sole owner at ST.
YMMV on this discussion
TomO
|
|
|
Post by ncrc5315 on Feb 5, 2023 7:46:15 GMT -8
I have close to 35 Scale Trains locomotives, and a bunch of their cars, and all of them came from a brick and mortar dealer.
|
|
|
Post by ambluco on Feb 5, 2023 8:32:22 GMT -8
One more thing from the YT video is that ST says customers have a 30 day window (announce to pre-order close) to email changes, artwork corrections, etc. I think it's assumed by many you can keep contacting them as you find things up until fairly far into the production run.
|
|
|
Post by NS4122 on Feb 5, 2023 8:51:57 GMT -8
With dealers dropping like flies, depending on a "dealer network" to sell trains would not be a good business decision. You need to get the word out as ST does in as many ways as possible. I don’t follow the logic that you need a “dealer” network to sell Scaletrains. We have writings from folks here and on other forums that don’t have Local Hobby Shops. So why have a dealer network? If modelers don’t have the LHS it’s the internet they must rely on or shows. But ST does have a network. It maybe smaller then we would like but there are quite a few spread across the country. The price they sell online and what the dealer sells at is the same. Heck if you spend enough direct it is free shipping from ST. That’s a good deal to me. As for the road shows, while personally I am not a fan, IMO it’s great publicity. I’d much rather meet ST and other Mfg’s at a train show. Rapido does the occasional dog and pony show but we don’t seem to hear complaints about that. Jason is the owner there so does that allow some slack that we are not allowing the lead guy(Shane) but admittedly not the sole owner at ST. YMMV on this discussion TomO
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Feb 5, 2023 12:01:12 GMT -8
I don’t follow the logic that you need a “dealer” network to sell Scaletrains. We have writings from folks here and on other forums that don’t have Local Hobby Shops. So why have a dealer network? If modelers don’t have the LHS it’s the internet they must rely on or shows. But ST does have a network. It maybe smaller then we would like but there are quite a few spread across the country. The price they sell online and what the dealer sells at is the same. Heck if you spend enough direct it is free shipping from ST. That’s a good deal to me. As for the road shows, while personally I am not a fan, IMO it’s great publicity. I’d much rather meet ST and other Mfg’s at a train show. Rapido does the occasional dog and pony show but we don’t seem to hear complaints about that. Jason is the owner there so does that allow some slack that we are not allowing the lead guy(Shane) but admittedly not the sole owner at ST. YMMV on this discussion TomO If I can't get it wholesale, I can't sell it. Customer buys elsewhere. That's a bit of profit I don't get. The less profit I make the harder it is to keep the lights on. Meanwhile, some guys need to see it in person before they'll buy it, or will have no idea it exists because it's not in a store. That's less sales Scaletrains makes. It would be interesting to see the total sales numbers for a particular run of say Atlas locomotive compared to a similar Scaletrains. You could probably figure from that total roughly what each one profits on them, and see who does better - Atlas who sells most of their products wholesale, up front, or Scaletrains who sells most of their products direct. That would tell you which one is the better business model. I did note in my initial comment that Scaletrains has some "friends" they do apparently wholesale to. it's just not very many. I can find guys with Tangent cars before ST items, who went to Tangent and bought a big enough quanity with them to get a discount.
|
|
tomoc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by tomoc on Feb 5, 2023 17:56:23 GMT -8
Ivrr325. I was unaware you are a hobby shop owner. Of course your experiences and needs will be different from the modeler. I do understand profits and loss and how hard retailers have it.
I frequently am amazed by the inventory that certain brick and mortar shops carry. Hiawatha Hobbies is a huge ST dealer and the amount of inventory they carry for ST is staggering. They also are huge online but are still limited by ST as to what they can sell for. To me that’s not fair to Hiawatha but since they agreed to it, it must be working out for them
Tom0
|
|
wictl
Junior Member
Posts: 74
|
Post by wictl on Feb 6, 2023 5:07:38 GMT -8
How is the ScaleTrains running quality? Esp at slow speeds.
So far in my testing and speed matching efforts the Scaletrains does fine. The Proto seemed to start at a lower voltage and has a ESU Lokpilot 5 where the Scaletrains has a Loksound 5. I did the autotune with them matched together but they did not pair up to great with this. I had to tweak CV2 a little on the sound decoder. Side note: I use Sergent couplers between my consisted locos so there is no coupler play between them. I think you need to re-evaluate that statement about the WalthersProto units, They do indeed have Loksound 5.0 in them. The WalthersMainline have the ESU decoders. That is one of the differences between the two brands. My Proto units have the full Loksound functions. Darin Umlauft A WC, SOO and GBW fan in Slinger, WI
|
|
|
Post by nsc39d8 on Feb 6, 2023 6:26:40 GMT -8
So far in my testing and speed matching efforts the Scaletrains does fine. The Proto seemed to start at a lower voltage and has a ESU Lokpilot 5 where the Scaletrains has a Loksound 5. I did the autotune with them matched together but they did not pair up to great with this. I had to tweak CV2 a little on the sound decoder. Side note: I use Sergent couplers between my consisted locos so there is no coupler play between them. I think you need to re-evaluate that statement about the WalthersProto units, They do indeed have Loksound 5.0 in them. The WalthersMainline have the ESU decoders. That is one of the differences between the two brands. My Proto units have the full Loksound functions. Darin Umlauft A WC, SOO and GBW fan in Slinger, WI Um, well seeing how I purchased a Proto DC/DCC ready version and installed the LokPilot 5 myself I believe my statement is correct. The Scaletrains came factory installed sound, which I did not preorder but got second hand on very low offer on Ebay.
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Feb 6, 2023 12:33:37 GMT -8
They also are huge online but are still limited by ST as to what they can sell for. To me that’s not fair to Hiawatha but since they agreed to it, it must be working out for them Tom0 Multiple manufacturers have a MAP or Minimum Advertised Price contract. It's their attempt to slow down the big discounters selling them for 5% over cost so nobody else can compete. Broadway Limtied's dealer promotional flyers have the minimum right on them. Without one, you get things like this - Atlas imported some HO Cararama construction vehicles which showed up maybe 2020-ish, around a $22 retail price. I got a few and sold them around 20% off. Between shows, I thought about putting some on eBay. Another seller had them on for $15 or $16 but that included shipping. I did some math and as close as I could tell they were making 25 to 50 cents per unit. The only reason that works is he sold 1000 or so of them. When you're only selling a dozen or so it's not worth the trouble to make three bucks.
|
|
|
Post by NCC42768 on Feb 6, 2023 22:43:59 GMT -8
I'm pretty excited for the 611. I think the MTH model is the best version, and am looking forward to the ScaleTrains re-run, along with the N&W passenger cars. I may be the only person who would ever ask for a LIGHTER model loco. Having owned (and sold) an MTH 611---it is RIDICULOUSLY heavy. A lighter tender at least would actually increase how many cars it could pull, I assume. It's basically pulling a brick behind the cab. My kingdom for a "basic" DC version.
|
|
|
Post by wagnersteve on Feb 7, 2023 5:35:54 GMT -8
NCCd42768, I appreciate the meaning of your last sentence. Some model railroad suppliers and some dealers do not appear to appreciate that there are still some of us who, for very good reasons, cannot run locos with sound effects at home and have little prospect of joining a club where everything runs on DCC. I do have one DC/ DCC equipped loco of a type I really wanted to get that was simply unavailable in straight DC form, which, if it existed, should have been less expensive. I am glad Bowser, for one, still produces DC locos without sound.
|
|
|
Post by sd80mac on Feb 7, 2023 6:16:15 GMT -8
Finally had time to sit down and watch the whole video. I have to say I'm pretty excited that I'll be getting a free CN Dash 9 and that I get to keep the one I already bought, too.
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 7, 2023 6:56:06 GMT -8
Other than the fact that they are missing the as- advertised ground lights and the fuel tank is wrong, what exactly is the deal with the CN Dash 9s that they feel the need to give everyone a new one?
It seems to me it would be easier on the bottom line to give everyone new chassis with the proper lights and a new fuel tank rather than giving everyone an entire brand new locomotive.
|
|
|
Post by sd80mac on Feb 7, 2023 9:03:21 GMT -8
Other than the fact that they are missing the as- advertised ground lights and the fuel tank is wrong, what exactly is the deal with the CN Dash 9s that they feel the need to give everyone a new one? It seems to me it would be easier on the bottom line to give everyone new chassis with the proper lights and a new fuel tank rather than giving everyone an entire brand new locomotive. As discussed in the video, the bodies used for the CN/IC Dash 9s this run turned out to be completely wrong for the actual CN/IC 2700 series. They didn't come out and say "it's actually good for a standard CN C44-9W", but they are sending everyone a decal sheet so that you can renumber your Dash 9 into an "appropriate number series", in addition to giving everyone who purchased a CN/IC Dash 9 a brand new model of the correct locomotive for free. The replacement models will be DCC ready, but they will upgrade it to DCC/Sound for $49 if you want.
|
|
|
Post by PennCentral on Feb 7, 2023 9:36:09 GMT -8
If I can't get it wholesale, I can't sell it. Customer buys elsewhere. That's a bit of profit I don't get. The less profit I make the harder it is to keep the lights on. Meanwhile, some guys need to see it in person before they'll buy it, or will have no idea it exists because it's not in a store. That's less sales Scaletrains makes. It would be interesting to see the total sales numbers for a particular run of say Atlas locomotive compared to a similar Scaletrains. You could probably figure from that total roughly what each one profits on them, and see who does better - Atlas who sells most of their products wholesale, up front, or Scaletrains who sells most of their products direct. That would tell you which one is the better business model. I did note in my initial comment that Scaletrains has some "friends" they do apparently wholesale to. it's just not very many. I can find guys with Tangent cars before ST items, who went to Tangent and bought a big enough quanity with them to get a discount. lvrr325, Where is your brick and mortar store located? I've done business with a number of dealers that carry Scale Trains products. The one thing I've noticed is that every one of them has an actual physical store where they stock Scale Trains products. Do you have an actual physical store or just work the train show circuit? Nothing wrong with being a train show dealer. But if Scale Trains dealer terms require their dealers to have a physical store and you do not meet that requirement, I fail to see how this is Scale Trains issue. Scale Trains isn't required to change their dealer terms to support your side hustle. Even out here in the corn fields of Indiana, we have a legit Scale Trains dealer. He has an actual physical store. The building is not huge but his inventory is impressive. We have another train shop that opened last fall and they are a Tangent dealer. The common denominator seems to be that these dealers have done what it takes to meet the manufactures dealer contract terms. Jason C Indiana
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 7, 2023 10:15:39 GMT -8
As discussed in the video, the bodies used for the CN/IC Dash 9s this run turned out to be completely wrong for the actual CN/IC 2700 series. They didn't come out and say "it's actually good for a standard CN C44-9W", but they are sending everyone a decal sheet so that you can renumber your Dash 9 into an "appropriate number series", in addition to giving everyone who purchased a CN/IC Dash 9 a brand new model of the correct locomotive for free. The replacement models will be DCC ready, but they will upgrade it to DCC/Sound for $49 if you want. what a cluster-you-know-what... so basically the body is correct for the earlier 25xx units, same series that Athearn did? Those with DPU-equipped models will have to be careful which numbers they choose if they choose to renumber their existing ones, a lot of those earlier built units never got DPU-equipped. Based on my photos it looks like only the 2520s and 30s which got it. Good that ST is doing right by the customer, but they've gotta get these issues under control or they'll be in big trouble. The SD38s, that run of tank cars that got rejected and now this are all big hits to take.
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Feb 7, 2023 10:33:42 GMT -8
I think they get-it. But I imagine having a lot less presence at the factory is part of the problem too.
|
|
|
Post by NS4122 on Feb 7, 2023 11:08:35 GMT -8
Don;t expect an answer as several posters have asked the same question over time without a response. As best as I have determined, he is a former hobby shop owner who now just sells on ebay or at trainshows. If I can't get it wholesale, I can't sell it. Customer buys elsewhere. That's a bit of profit I don't get. The less profit I make the harder it is to keep the lights on. Meanwhile, some guys need to see it in person before they'll buy it, or will have no idea it exists because it's not in a store. That's less sales Scaletrains makes. It would be interesting to see the total sales numbers for a particular run of say Atlas locomotive compared to a similar Scaletrains. You could probably figure from that total roughly what each one profits on them, and see who does better - Atlas who sells most of their products wholesale, up front, or Scaletrains who sells most of their products direct. That would tell you which one is the better business model. I did note in my initial comment that Scaletrains has some "friends" they do apparently wholesale to. it's just not very many. I can find guys with Tangent cars before ST items, who went to Tangent and bought a big enough quanity with them to get a discount. lvrr325, Where is your brick and mortar store located? I've done business with a number of dealers that carry Scale Trains products. The one thing I've noticed is that every one of them has an actual physical store where they stock Scale Trains products. Do you have an actual physical store or just work the train show circuit? Nothing wrong with being a train show dealer. But if Scale Trains dealer terms require their dealers to have a physical store and you do not meet that requirement, I fail to see how this is Scale Trains issue. Scale Trains isn't required to change their dealer terms to support your side hustle. Even out here in the corn fields of Indiana, we have a legit Scale Trains dealer. He has an actual physical store. The building is not huge but his inventory is impressive. We have another train shop that opened last fall and they are a Tangent dealer. The common denominator seems to be that these dealers have done what it takes to meet the manufactures dealer contract terms. Jason C Indiana
|
|
|
Post by lvrr325 on Feb 7, 2023 13:39:25 GMT -8
When Scaletrains released their first Kit Classics car, they apparently needed to recover some funds quickly so they sold a batch wholesale to a distributor I use, making it look like they were going to do like most other companies. But it turned out they sold to several retailers at that same price, and I read at least one report that ST was selling them themselves at some big shows, so they were all selling them to the public for about what it cost me to get them. This made it very hard to sell mine, the last couple took literally years to move. So I have no desire to even try to sell used ST stuff.
The only point is because they handle it direct a lot of shops can't get the items. So that's potential sales they lose. Maybe it's just one or two here and there, but it's still a loss. It doesn't help the hobby retailer, it takes away from him. Even somebody like Tangent, as you mentioned, it's possible to buy at a sort of wholesale level from. But you go to them and buy enough stuff in one shot to get a discount, is how that works. There is a vendor who does Springfield who is out of Maryland or somewhere who does this, I bought my Tangent from them this year.
I don't know of anyone in my area who is able to sell ScaleTrains items, they just do not exist at the shows here.
Look into what's involved in a Horizon account. You'd pass out from the shock. The only guys who seem to be able to manage them also sell R/C car stuff.
I don't post details because I'm not going to use a free forum as advertising space. Plus I've no desire to dox myself, you never know what some of these cranks are going to try to pull because they don't like what you said on here. Which I have explained before, but has apparently fallen on deaf ears. If I sell something to guys here once in a while, great, if not, I have my other outlets, which includes about a dozen shows a year and eBay, among other things.
|
|