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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 11, 2024 13:11:28 GMT -8
I cant believe this hasn't been posted yet (if it was I missed it sorry), all my local railfan friends are talking about it and its all over facebook, but there's apparently a new model manufacturer called Cardinal River Models and their debut model is a high tier Nickel Plate Road S-2 2-8-4 (765). I mean this is what I've daydreamed over forever. I absolutely loathe the MTH and bachmann versions. Looks like this will have Synchronized smoke and cylinder steam! ESU electronics and a lot of details all the predecessor versions were lacking in. I model SP transition era to modern day but I have a soft spot for 765 as I saw her on the Joliet Rocket trip. Thus, I pre-ordered 765 in modern day and 50s era. I cannot wait to see what these models are like. The CRM guys are also doing the other Van Sweringen berks and they'll be out soon apparently if the S-2 project fares well, and I mean how could it not lol
Just thought I'd edit and say these are diecast according to the website, lots of info on there
What do you guys think? I mean this is awesome for us steam people who actually care about details and quality...
Oh their website is cardinalrivermodels.com
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 11, 2024 13:30:35 GMT -8
Plastic? Brass? Pot metal?
Smoke and steam seems kind of gimmicky.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 11, 2024 13:39:07 GMT -8
This guy thinks he'd like to hear (and see) a lot more about the model, itself. Being told it's going to be wonderful isn't enough. Smoke? I think I'd sooner have a second speaker in that location, for better sound. Ed |
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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 11, 2024 14:09:54 GMT -8
Pot metal lol I updated and said diecast though, its on the website |
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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 11, 2024 14:10:41 GMT -8
Plastic? Brass? Pot metal? Smoke and steam seems kind of gimmicky. I personally like smoke and it can always be turned off. I usually just use it for fun every once in a blue moon |
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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 11, 2024 14:11:50 GMT -8
This guy thinks he'd like to hear (and see) a lot more about the model, itself. Being told it's going to be wonderful isn't enough. Smoke? I think I'd sooner have a second speaker in that location, for better sound. Hopefully we'll have pre production models before long, I mean looking at the CAD I's good enough for me with that detail, I can already see its a fine model |
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Post by markfj on Jun 11, 2024 15:43:44 GMT -8
This is a really ambitious project for a company that is relatively new to model train manufacturing. Of course Scale Trains came into the market with their UP “Big Blow” Turbine, so maybe CRM is trying to follow suit.
Mark
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 11, 2024 16:13:48 GMT -8
Hopefully we'll have pre production models before long, I mean looking at the CAD I's good enough for me with that detail, I can already see its a fine model Well, you can see the drawings might be used to make a fine model. It's a leap to assume that that necessarily translates into the model itself being a fine model. Things happen. Think Arbour Models (who also made one). I spent more time looking over the info. It IS very promising, and I hope they make good on the promise. The frame, chassis (isn't that the same thing?), cab, boiler and tender are to be zinc alloy, hopefully a good quality Zamac. The weight should be good, though. Sprung drivers, good. Traction tire(s), bad. They SHOULD include a non-traction replacement. Lit number boards, good. Lit class lights, good if not too big and clunky. It's a good choice for a model. There's been a number of versions already done. Somewhere, I have my old Hobbyline; always good for filling up a roundhouse. Neat! Ed |
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 11, 2024 17:10:02 GMT -8
I picked up a rough Rivarossi one with no tender at a local show and found the right tender at Springfield for $5. They must have made 100,000 of them over the years.
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Post by Baikal on Jun 11, 2024 17:28:58 GMT -8
Hopefully we'll have pre production models before long, I mean looking at the CAD I's good enough for me with that detail, I can already see its a fine model Well, you can see the drawings might be used to make a fine model. It's a leap to assume that that necessarily translates into the model itself being a fine model. Things happen. Think Arbour Models (who also made one). I spent more time looking over the info. It IS very promising, and I hope they make good on the promise. The frame, chassis (isn't that the same thing?), cab, boiler and tender are to be zinc alloy, hopefully a good quality Zamac. The weight should be good, though. Sprung drivers, good. Traction tire(s), bad. They SHOULD include a non-traction replacement. Lit number boards, good. Lit class lights, good if not too big and clunky. It's a good choice for a model. There's been a number of versions already done. Somewhere, I have my old Hobbyline; always good for filling up a roundhouse. Neat! Ed
A popular prototype. Did AHM make one? Lots of people find them good looking. Same with other Lima superpower & "Van Sweringen" locos. C&O, PM, Erie? NYC Berkshires were also nice looking.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Jun 11, 2024 18:01:20 GMT -8
I'm glad that we are addressing steam locomotives other than PRR, ATSF, and UP, but at the same time, is this really a model we need? It seems like every steam manufacturer has offered a Lima Superpower Berkshire at one point. MTH, Bachmann, Proto 2000, AHM/Rivarossi, Precision Scale, Overland, Key, PFM. Any that I'm missing? There are a lot of good brands in there with respectable models. What does this new one offer that the MTH or Proto model doesn't, and is it worth double or triple the price?
If the goal was to make a Nickel Plate steam locomotive, I think the effort would have been better spent on making a model that hasn't been done before. Maybe a smaller switcher or light road locomotive? It seems like everyone overlooks the local power in favor of heavy locomotives, even though most layouts are more suited to smaller engines. There were many more Mikados and Mountains built compared to Northerns and Berkshires, but they are underrepresented in the hobby offerings.
Obviously big and flashy locomotives sell, but it would be nice to have greater steam variety, even some more budget models aimed at beginner and intermediate modelers. Bachmann is the only one serving that space right now. Walthers has been doing well with the Mainline series of rolling stock, so maybe we can get a Mainline steam locomotive? A nice diecast model like the NW2 that doesn't break the bank and provides some opportunity for detail upgrades and customization would be fun.
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Post by tony on Jun 11, 2024 18:13:50 GMT -8
Did Life-Like Proto 2000 do this engine years ago?
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Post by tony on Jun 11, 2024 18:16:53 GMT -8
Has anyone taken a close look at the detail features? Some of what I've seen could present issues with injection molding and or 3D printing.
CB&T models flashed in my mind.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 11, 2024 19:21:15 GMT -8
Did Life-Like Proto 2000 do this engine years ago? Yes. Ed |
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Post by hudsonyard on Jun 11, 2024 21:06:36 GMT -8
Did Life-Like Proto 2000 do this engine years ago?
Yes, a guy in a local club stocked up on them with the intentions of building a koester-size NKP. Layout never materialized and almost all the ones he bought are shelved with some kind of gear issue. Lots of early-mid 2000s plastic steam is not aging gracefully.
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Post by PennCentral on Jun 12, 2024 4:33:25 GMT -8
Another opinion on this. We all know what that's worth but here it is anyway.
I'm NOT a steam modeler. I LOVE riding behind steam. I've ridden (and chased) 765 in Indiana, Ohio and Illinois. It probably helps that I live 5 miles from the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Societies shop where they maintain the 765 and 40 minutes south of the Indiana Northeastern railroad where they run 765 every year. I've also ridden behind PM 1225, SP 4449, Grand Trunk 6325, Little River Railroad 110, a couple of the East Broad Top's steamers, something at Roaring Camp (I think a Shay, it was 20+ years ago). Also chased UP 3985 over Cajon Pass and even chased dead steam being transported across NS between museums. I really like REAL steam.
All that said, I still have about zero interest in actually modeling or collecting HO models of steam. Except for the 765. Due to the efforts of the Fort Wayne group, the 765 is probably the most active of all the operable mainline steamers. In the tri-state area (Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio), the 765 is THE local steamer. You can ride behind it multiple times each season. I'll be riding behind it twice in one weekend this October at the NKP convention on Friday and again on Sunday for the all-day Tri-State excursion that runs in Ohio, Indiana and up into Michigan. One of these days, I will have a model of the 765. It will not be the Bachmann, Rivarossi, MTH, etc. The Cardinal River 'modern day with Mars light' might finally be the one that gets my money.
Jason C
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Post by jonklein611 on Jun 12, 2024 5:13:25 GMT -8
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Jun 12, 2024 5:15:26 GMT -8
Maybe it's just me, but why does the OP post read like a bad t-shirt selling post that you see on Facebook? Everyone is talking about it. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. etc. They even like their own post. Makes me leery.
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Post by wagnersteve on Jun 12, 2024 5:16:44 GMT -8
June 12, 2024
starting just after 9 a.m., EDT
As I recall, the very first HO mass produced NKP Berkshire was an unpowered polystyrene kit sold by Hobbyline in the 1950s. I think an outfit named Sims, perhaps in Canada, made a mechanism for it. I should have noticed, but didn't, that Baikal already referred to the Hobbyline model. My apologies to him and others about that.
Like many others born too late to notice many steamers in regular service in the USA, I have seen more than one NKP Berkshire in action, I'm sure including the 765, in excursion service, in Massachusetts and other places. I went to college in northeastern Ohio and enjoyed seeing NKP diesels in Cleveland, some of which wore liveries resembling the Delaware & Hudson's original dieel livery of black with yellow stripes and lettering. I did ride behind mainline steam in Europe in 1966, notably a semi-streamlined 4-8-2 in what was then still Czechoslovakia, from Ceske Velenice to Praha. I've ridden behind steam on many tourist lines, among others the Edaville, Steamtown both in Vermont and in Pennsylvania, the Strasburg, the East Broad Top and a former line operating from Marquette on Michigan's Upper Peninsula that used ex-LS&I steamers.
I would be most enthusiastic about a prototypical, not too expensive, HO model of a modest sized D&H 4-6-0, preferably with a single rear cab, and a similar B&M 2-6-0 with typical Alco featires including an arched window on each side of its cab.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 12, 2024 5:26:46 GMT -8
I hope one of the options would be to have to come in the colors of those CAD drawings.... Pink, lime green, powder blue, red, etc.
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Post by grahamline on Jun 12, 2024 7:43:33 GMT -8
Maybe it's just me, but why does the OP post read like a bad t-shirt selling post that you see on Facebook? Everyone is talking about it. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. etc. They even like their own post. Makes me leery. Given some of the performances over the past couple of years, I only "pre-order" from outfits like Moloco and Tangent with an ironclad history of accuracy and quality. Until someone like Dan Cortopassi, RMC, or my neighborhood hobby shop has a chance to examine one and comment, no sale. If I miss Bison Range Models of the Harriman 2-8-0 multikit, well, then I've missed it. So many of the bubbling endorsements here are from unknowns with 9 posts. |
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ST974
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Post by ST974 on Jun 12, 2024 8:57:01 GMT -8
Maybe it's just me, but why does the OP post read like a bad t-shirt selling post that you see on Facebook? Everyone is talking about it. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. etc. They even like their own post. Makes me leery. Given some of the performances over the past couple of years, I only "pre-order" from outfits like Moloco and Tangent with an ironclad history of accuracy and quality. Until someone like Dan Cortopassi, RMC, or my neighborhood hobby shop has a chance to examine one and comment, no sale. If I miss Bison Range Models of the Harriman 2-8-0 multikit, well, then I've missed it. So many of the bubbling endorsements here are from unknowns with 9 posts. Dan Cortopassi? The same Dan Cortopassi that is a self proclaimed SP expert but didn't know that ditch lights flash on an SP diesel locomotive he reviewed? That's just one of countless omissions, errors, overlooks, over reactions, clickbait videos and other nonsense he spreads online. I went to their website and the pre orders look like no payment information is taken so I will put in one and hope they turn out well. If not I will return it and if I don't get my money back I'll contact my credit card company. |
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Post by timvanmersbergen on Jun 12, 2024 11:14:01 GMT -8
I could see Moloco but nobody pre-orders from Tangent. |
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Post by prr 4467 on Jun 12, 2024 14:33:22 GMT -8
Another opinion on this. We all know what that's worth but here it is anyway. I'm NOT a steam modeler. I LOVE riding behind steam. I've ridden (and chased) 765 in Indiana, Ohio and Illinois. It probably helps that I live 5 miles from the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Societies shop where they maintain the 765 and 40 minutes south of the Indiana Northeastern railroad where they run 765 every year. I've also ridden behind PM 1225, SP 4449, Grand Trunk 6325, Little River Railroad 110, a couple of the East Broad Top's steamers, something at Roaring Camp (I think a Shay, it was 20+ years ago). Also chased UP 3985 over Cajon Pass and even chased dead steam being transported across NS between museums. I really like REAL steam. All that said, I still have about zero interest in actually modeling or collecting HO models of steam. Except for the 765. Due to the efforts of the Fort Wayne group, the 765 is probably the most active of all the operable mainline steamers. In the tri-state area (Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio), the 765 is THE local steamer. You can ride behind it multiple times each season. I'll be riding behind it twice in one weekend this October at the NKP convention on Friday and again on Sunday for the all-day Tri-State excursion that runs in Ohio, Indiana and up into Michigan. One of these days, I will have a model of the 765. It will not be the Bachmann, Rivarossi, MTH, etc. The Cardinal River 'modern day with Mars light' might finally be the one that gets my money. Jason C Hello Jason C-- I have to say that in my opinion you and those NKP 765 fans have been LUCKY. 765 is located in an area where it is able to actually run. Granted, the Society that owns the loco is first rate and has a reputation for being very reputable, professional, and efficient. They clearly know how to do trips. However, there are other steam locomotives with similar historical value to a NKP Berkshire that have been pushed inside a building for 40 years and only once in a while get wheeled outside for photos--and that's it--the likelihood of the local railroads where that engine is located EVER allowing it to run on their rails is virtually impossible, not gonna happen. In doing a little research (after ordering two BLI models) recently, I learned that Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #610 has been sitting around since the 1980's, with nowhere to run. When it arrived in Palestine, it was under its own power! Yet there was then and is now nowhere for it to run (local railroads UP and BNSF do not want any steam power on their rails...at least none that wasn't theirs originally). Now I get it. Due to some very, very unwise people at the Gettysburg Railroad blowing up a steam locomotive some years ago, all the locos in the US are subject to much more stringent boiler safety requirements than before, and as a result, many are now dead and in need of extensive and costly boiler work to ever run again. Unlike NKP 765, many of those cold engines are located near railroads which have a stated "NO steam loco policy" or perhaps in the case of some "NO steam loco without XXX Insurance" policy. From what I've read in various issues of Trains and elsewhere, the insurance costs for some of these other organizations are so outta sight that they couldn't possibly afford to run a steam trip even if they had an operable engine to run, which they currently don't. All of those factors conspire together to make it such that we may be approaching a day when only NKP 765 and a handful of other engines are able to run, at least anywhere outside of Strasburg, Steamtown, and a few other last bastions of operable steam. I've only ever seen steam locos operate at Strasburg, New Hope & Ivyland, Steamtown and Grand Canyon Railway, and was born a bit late (1968). I did see the Freedom Train when it came through Williamsport, PA, with the Reading T-1 pulling it, but I only saw that loco sitting still and simmering. I can't really say that I've ever really seen real steam run--at least not where they could really open up and let the loco run as it was built to run. For some of us, we only have the models to play with. |
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Post by prr 4467 on Jun 12, 2024 14:53:37 GMT -8
So many of the NKP 2-8-4 models that have been made have issues such that a new model, if well done, probably will sell well.
The PFM/United NKP Berkshire has some features of an S-2 class and some features of an S-3. I was told by better modelers than me that out of the box it is not correct for either version, just is "close". That was why I traded mine back into Armand Mazzetti at The Caboose years ago in favor of something else. (On trade-ins, Armand actually allowed you what you had paid for your trade-in, up to a certain point in time. That made it easy to change your mind and get something else.)
The Precision Scale brass NKP 2-8-4's look beautiful, and some of them can run well, but others I've personally seen can experience failures like broken axle bearings, etc. Since their value is not very far above the original selling price, that tells me they just do NOT have a good reputation.
The Proto 2000 2-8-4's have a reputation for gear failures. Sad for a recent production model.
Arbor Models...for the master craftsman who wants to put in many many hours to make them look and run well...are not for typical modelers.
In short, there are lots of "decent" Berkshire models out there, but plenty of opportunities for a hopefully "better" version to come along.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jun 12, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -8
I cant believe this hasn't been posted yet (if it was I missed it sorry), all my local railfan friends are talking about it and its all over facebook, but there's apparently a new model manufacturer called Cardinal River Models and their debut model is a high tier Nickel Plate Road S-2 2-8-4 (765). I mean this is what I've daydreamed over forever. I absolutely loathe the MTH and bachmann versions. Looks like this will have Synchronized smoke and cylinder steam! ESU electronics and a lot of details all the predecessor versions were lacking in. I model SP transition era to modern day but I have a soft spot for 765 as I saw her on the Joliet Rocket trip. Thus, I pre-ordered 765 in modern day and 50s era. I cannot wait to see what these models are like. The CRM guys are also doing the other Van Sweringen berks and they'll be out soon apparently if the S-2 project fares well, and I mean how could it not lol Just thought I'd edit and say these are diecast according to the website, lots of info on there What do you guys think? I mean this is awesome for us steam people who actually care about details and quality... Oh their website is cardinalrivermodels.com I posted a link to the Cardinal River Models announcement a week or two back, but it was buried in another thread and didn't get many views. Where can I find a BLI Paragon 4 I-1sa?
While I don't personally care for the synchronized and cylinder steam, I wish them the best of luck in their endeavor. I also found the Bachmann 2-8-4 a bit lacking in the details department but figure it will just be a matter of time before Scaletrains makes an announcement for their revised, ex-MTH 2-8-4. I also have been bitten by the cracked-gear problem with the P2K 2-8-4. Between it and the BLI S-1 6-4-4-6, it would be a no-brainer as to where I would spend my $$$. Whiie some of my friends don't see a logic with their release, it makes sense to me. The NKP 2-8-4's, speciifically NKP 765, have always been popular locomotives in the eyes of the railfans. It certainly doesn't hurt that NKP 765 has been well-travelled. Throw in the fact that you have a preserved, working member of the class also helps as far s the research goes. |
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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 13, 2024 8:24:55 GMT -8
Maybe it's just me, but why does the OP post read like a bad t-shirt selling post that you see on Facebook? Everyone is talking about it. Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet. etc. They even like their own post. Makes me leery. lol, sorry that wasn't my intention, if you're insinuating I made the post for them then yes I technically did, but not at their request, I was just super excited and wanted to make a post. For what its worth I never made a post to announce a model before, I'm usually not active on forums and just scroll. I did like my own post but thought I unliked it, I see it didn't take so just manually unliked it now cause I agree that looks dumb. Yes to be fair everybody who models steam is talking about it, or at least they were within the last week and I really cannot believe someone hadn't posted yet here before mine |
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Post by espeedude07 on Jun 13, 2024 8:32:29 GMT -8
I cant believe this hasn't been posted yet (if it was I missed it sorry), all my local railfan friends are talking about it and its all over facebook, but there's apparently a new model manufacturer called Cardinal River Models and their debut model is a high tier Nickel Plate Road S-2 2-8-4 (765). I mean this is what I've daydreamed over forever. I absolutely loathe the MTH and bachmann versions. Looks like this will have Synchronized smoke and cylinder steam! ESU electronics and a lot of details all the predecessor versions were lacking in. I model SP transition era to modern day but I have a soft spot for 765 as I saw her on the Joliet Rocket trip. Thus, I pre-ordered 765 in modern day and 50s era. I cannot wait to see what these models are like. The CRM guys are also doing the other Van Sweringen berks and they'll be out soon apparently if the S-2 project fares well, and I mean how could it not lol Just thought I'd edit and say these are diecast according to the website, lots of info on there What do you guys think? I mean this is awesome for us steam people who actually care about details and quality... Oh their website is cardinalrivermodels.com I posted a link to the Cardinal River Models announcement a week or two back, but it was buried in another thread and didn't get many views. Where can I find a BLI Paragon 4 I-1sa?
While I don't personally care for the synchronized and cylinder steam, I wish them the best of luck in their endeavor. I also found the Bachmann 2-8-4 a bit lacking in the details department but figure it will just be a matter of time before Scaletrains makes an announcement for their revised, ex-MTH 2-8-4. I also have been bitten by the cracked-gear problem with the P2K 2-8-4. Between it and the BLI S-1 6-4-4-6, it would be a no-brainer as to where I would spend my $$$. Whiie some of my friends don't see a logic with their release, it makes sense to me. The NKP 2-8-4's, speciifically NKP 765, have always been popular locomotives in the eyes of the railfans. It certainly doesn't hurt that NKP 765 has been well-travelled. Throw in the fact that you have a preserved, working member of the class also helps as far s the research goes. Well said, yeah I'm one of those who missed the post apparently. Can I ask though why some of your friends don't see the logic in their release? I mean there has never been a good S-2 model made outside of maybe Division Point or Precision Scale brass and 765/759 are pretty famous US locos. Not to mention they now will have the tooling to work on the other Van Sweringen 2-8-4s such as 1225, which has never had an accurate representation either. Then we have the C&O K-4 which is a whole other ordeal etc. I see it as logical cause it kinda secures their footing with a model that should be successful, after this one they can bring new prototypes to the market that some would say are rather risky investments, like the NC&STL J3 576, not to mention some of the western steam I so want... |
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 13, 2024 9:02:24 GMT -8
The Proto 2000 2-8-4's have a reputation for gear failures. Sad for a recent production model. Is that a fixable condition, or is it fatal? Like you said, sad that it's something that in theory they should have learned to get right decades earlier.
The only Proto steamers I've seen in person were gorgeous, but I don't think I've seen any in use.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 13, 2024 10:43:23 GMT -8
The Proto 2000 2-8-4's have a reputation for gear failures. Sad for a recent production model. Is that a fixable condition, or is it fatal? Like you said, sad that it's something that in theory they should have learned to get right decades earlier.
The only Proto steamers I've seen in person were gorgeous, but I don't think I've seen any in use.
The problem probably is there's no replacement gears, unless somebody like a NWSL was to make one. |
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