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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 9:08:06 GMT -8
Relax James... There's only 4 UP numbers there - but 3 with flags! (8 stock numbers for UP due to sound and no-sound versions each) The 4 UP numbers announced are all from the same order - all built at London and delivered in early 2002 (Jan-March 2002) The 4 NS numbers announced are all from the same order too - all built at London and delivered in mid 2003 (April-June 2003) (Note NS 2591 in white face scheme as delivered (changed 2004), others in white-brow scheme circa 2004 on) PS. Feeling sharp pain in wallet area too... The 8 numbers are NS and UP combined. I was thinking of some NS but probably won't get one. All four of the UP road numbers will be mine though,
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Post by curtmc on Jan 26, 2014 9:42:02 GMT -8
Other research data on the 4 Athearn announced UP numbers (data from UtahRails.net web site by Don Strack) UP 4714 delivered on 1/11/02 UP 4737 delivered on 1/30/02 UP 4742 delivered on 2/26/02 UP 4756 delivered on 3/24/02
From the data on that site I've determined #4737 was the 4th UP flagged/flared SD70M delivered to UP (3 days after the first two, #4735 and #4736, and a day after #4738). So if Athearn ever wants to do the first UP flagged/flared SD70Ms in a future run, #4735 and #4736 are the numbers.
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Post by trebor on Jan 26, 2014 10:04:02 GMT -8
Good looking models!! I prefer the Union Pacific spelled out on the hood, personally. Yeah, UP should have to pay licensing fee to me for MY flag. I'm going for the lettered version, plus an ooglie NS.
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Post by curtmc on Jan 26, 2014 10:14:06 GMT -8
That's cool (I know you originally posted 16 numbers - after seeing 16 stock numbers - but I didn't quote you )... I'm going to try to limit myself to UP #4737 and #4742. A few years ago I had #4738 and #4743 in brass (OMI). Might have to get a NS #2591 too... as I've seen that unit nearby (Manassas). By the way, the Athearn ETA is now late September which probably means November... so as I said, they're going to affect your/our holiday budgets...
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 10:31:18 GMT -8
That's cool... I'm going to try to limit myself to UP #4737 and #4742. A few years ago I had #4738 and #4743 in brass (OMI). Might have to get a NS #2591 too... as I've seen that unit nearby (Manassas). By the way, the Athearn ETA is now late September which probably means November... so as I said, they're going to affect your/our holiday budgets... I'm not sure they're running late as much anymore. They've been on time a lot lately. I will plan for it to affect my Halloween budget. I have a Halloween display that almost equals the amount of money invested in my model trains. I guess I won't be adding to that this year.
-James
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 26, 2014 11:33:22 GMT -8
James This seems to be a course all of us should be taking!!!! thanks for the humor. Larry
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 26, 2014 14:03:15 GMT -8
I just watched UP SD70M "flair" 4884 pull 4-8-8-4 4014 east from Bassett, CA today. Not a bad looking unit. The steam loco was nice too. Here's a photo by Matthew Griffin (better than my photos): www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=467659The dispatcher was calling out the UP4884 on the radio. Nice touch for the Union Pacific to use that particular diesel to pull the train to Colton. The 1996 pulled it out of the Fair grounds. Larry
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 14:16:46 GMT -8
I just watched UP SD70M "flair" 4884 pull 4-8-8-4 4014 east from Bassett, CA today. Not a bad looking unit. The steam loco was nice too. Here's a photo by Matthew Griffin (better than my photos): www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=467659
Here it is in model form with an OMI flared radiator:
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Post by espeenut on Jan 26, 2014 16:44:14 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks...
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 17:31:48 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks...
I'm not old and I'm afraid to replace bulbs. At least the ditch lights scare me anyway. I still haven't had an Athearn bulb burn out on me, but I don't run much because I run different stuff all the time.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 26, 2014 17:36:42 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks... It is well known Athearn engines have two defects. Lousy bulbs that burn out. And warped and fragile handrails. Athearn is not however, going to do a darn thing about either. If they would fix these two things there engines would be perfect. But you can't fix them on facebook.
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 26, 2014 18:33:39 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks...
I'm not old and I'm afraid to replace bulbs. At least the ditch lights scare me anyway. I still haven't had an Athearn bulb burn out on me, but I don't run much because I run different stuff all the time.
James I noticed your 4014 already has been converted to an oil fired locomotive, but it looks like the ash pans are still on the locomotive. How about a close up???/ It does make for a nice setup of something that just happened today! Thanks Larry
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 18:40:06 GMT -8
I'm not old and I'm afraid to replace bulbs. At least the ditch lights scare me anyway. I still haven't had an Athearn bulb burn out on me, but I don't run much because I run different stuff all the time.
James I noticed your 4014 already has been converted to an oil fired locomotive, but it looks like the ash pans are still on the locomotive. How about a close up???/ It does make for a nice setup of something that just happened today! Thanks Larry Larry, I left the ash pans on. They don't come off the locomotive to my knowledge without breaking off. I "converted" the tender from coal to oil by swapping out the top piece with an oil tender from my older athearn 844 locomotive. -James
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Post by coaldrag on Jan 26, 2014 18:40:14 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks... The ACes aren't bad to swop out bulbs because the cab roof comes off. If the flare's have this I'll probably get a couple. If not ... oh well ...
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jan 26, 2014 19:01:55 GMT -8
...looked at the newly released specs on their site and noticed they're still going with the c**ppy bulbs, and only doing one non flag unit, which is the scheme I want, so when I get mine it will most likely not be the lead unit in any consist once the bulbs burn out... ...and before anyone jumps on me about not ripping the thing apart to replace the lights - these getting older eyes just don't see small stuff as well anymore and the fingers no longer like playing with fiddly little parts. As far as I'm concerned, for the money they're asking for new models, they should all just work fine out of the box. All my Atlas and Kato stuff does so what's with Athearn? Once again, the only reason I'm buying an Athearn product is it's the only game in town in order to get a specific plastic version of the model. The silver lining in all this is I don't have to get a sound unit so I can save a hundred bucks... The ACes aren't bad to swop out bulbs because the cab roof comes off. If the flare's have this I'll probably get a couple. If not ... oh well ... But how do you change the ditch lights?
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Post by diburning on Jan 26, 2014 23:01:16 GMT -8
My wallet... isn't safe Talking to the Athearn rep, he said that the SD70M with the flared radiator is mostly new tooling.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 27, 2014 4:52:38 GMT -8
My wallet... isn't safe Talking to the Athearn rep, he said that the SD70M with the flared radiator is mostly new tooling. That is good news. Irv's tooling (released as a kit) wasn't super great.
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Post by curtmc on Jan 27, 2014 6:58:07 GMT -8
Naturally the new SD70M is a lot of new tooling... They did a major upgrades not only in details but also to add sound!
Back a few years ago when I was trying to convince Athearn to do the flared SD70Ms I was forgetting a major selling point... By redoing the SD70M/75M/75I they could also do the changes necessary to do them sound equipped, and that is where the big money is. (How much do you think the materials for the DCC/Sound chip cost compared to the $100 addition in MSRP?)
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rock
New Member
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Post by rock on Jan 27, 2014 7:51:35 GMT -8
Here's an SD75I I kitbashed for my fictional SPSF Railway, using split cooling in the radiators, as if the SD75 progressed to this point. I used Rail Power Products flared radiators for an SD90MAC. This locomotive also is repowered with a Kato drive and Kato trucks and also has a Kato cab.
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Post by bigblow69 on Jan 27, 2014 8:14:28 GMT -8
Naturally the new SD70M is a lot of new tooling... They did a major upgrades not only in details but also to add sound! Back a few years ago when I was trying to convince Athearn to do the flared SD70Ms I was forgetting a major selling point... By redoing the SD70M/75M/75I they could also do the changes necessary to do them sound equipped, and that is where the big money is. (How much do you think the materials for the DCC/Sound chip cost compared to the $100 addition in MSRP?) I often thought sound systems are quite high in the added cost & to purchase separately. If said manufacturer is buying them in bulk I would think cost would be lower too. I think to add a Tsunami to everyone of my Kato's was between $84-$100 once you buy the speaker and all. Still love all the features of the Tsunami and is my decoder of choice.
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Post by curtmc on Jan 27, 2014 9:27:56 GMT -8
BigBlow, I wasn't speaking of comparative price between doing it separately and getting it factory installed... I was speaking of the materials cost of the DCC/Sound chip... A new DVD player is $29 and has far more electronic components and material costs. The difference is in sales volumes where the DCC/Sound chip has to be priced so much higher to make the necessary revenue to cover that small company's expenses. It's probably $1-5 in materials, $10-15 in programming and R&D and the rest markup for the company to meet expenses and be profitable. They found a niche and a price point some are willing to pay, and with only a few companies they can coordinate somewhat to maintain that price point - about $100 retail, $70 street for sound.
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Post by bigblow69 on Jan 27, 2014 9:49:31 GMT -8
BigBlow, I wasn't speaking of comparative price between doing it separately and getting it factory installed... I was speaking of the materials cost of the DCC/Sound chip... A new DVD player is $29 and has far more electronic components and material costs. The difference is in sales volumes where the DCC/Sound chip has to be priced so much higher to make the necessary revenue to cover that small company's expenses. It's probably $1-5 in materials, $10-15 in programming and R&D and the rest markup for the company to meet expenses and be profitable. They found a niche and a price point some are willing to pay, and with only a few companies they can coordinate somewhat to maintain that price point - about $100 retail, $70 street for sound. Curt I agree with you on the cost of components. What I'd like to know what are the real numbers for sales vs sound and non-sound. I've seen various Athearn sound units sell more quickly vs the non sound counterparts and vice versa. For example Athearns CP ES44AC. The sound ones are still in stock at Horizon while the non-sound ones are long gone. I wonder about the production of the two. Is it produced 2 to 1? 3 to 1? Do you think the SD70M will be more popular than the SDP45? I sure think sales short & long term will eclipse the SDP45. I already ordered my four and as soon as Athearn does the UP PH II cab I will order those too. I would think some of these plastic models due to price/demand may be produced in numbers as low as some brass pieces.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 27, 2014 10:49:31 GMT -8
OK here is my Athearn feelings of this new SD70M Flared radiator engine: I LOVE IT! I am excited. With all seriousness, I am more satisfied now that I have my own LEDs to upgrade a major Issue I have however there is the largest issue of handrails! Nothing is bigger of a problem than that as it stands. However with that said I have two custom made (That I am so proud of) Athearn Genesis SD70M flared/Phase II engines. My only worry about those are the handrails at this point. I added the MU cables, Cut Levers, other additonal details needed to make it more authentic. I spent $50-60 per engine and $42 for the Phase II and Flared Kits, plus $5 for the cannon radiator vents. So about $107 for the project PLUS the details added of about $10-15 more. What I plan to do right now is pre-order ALL of the Sd70Ms with the Phase II cabs. I may get one of the first flared radiator engines that do not have the phase II cab. C'mon, The SD70M Flared/Phase II is my most favorite engine tied with the SD70ACE. Of course I am excited. To be 100% honest though I would have been a lot more excited had Kato or MTH produced it because I know durability would have been top priority and MTH would have made metal handrails. I am not a huge fan nor am I obsessed with sound. There, I have said it. Sound is cool but too much sound is outrageous for me. PLUS when i want sound I will go for LokSound decoders for the Athearn SD70m flared/phase II I buy, IF I decide to upgrade them to sound. Now here is something i want to say when it comes to sound right quick, I am not a steam guy but the Wow sound is OFF THE HOOK and untouchable! No lie! It is perfect! Absolutely flawless. I challenge ANYONE to show me how those are not. So with that said I will buy my engines non sound equipped and when the Wow Sound Diesel is ready I will likely 100% find myself buying only TCS for non sound and SOUND decoders. Flawless. I do not work for, get paid by nor given anything for free from TCS but I will tell you that I had a bunch of demonstrations of my OMI SD70M Flared/Phase II engine running on my 8' table without being on the track for 35-40 seconds! People were floored by it and aww inspired as I am. I bet I helped increase their sales more than I did with my LED upgrade kits. No lie. I was only showing my LEDs and saying I use TCS and love them. The kids loved it the most! They were loving it! So fun! I will pre-order every number today for NON-SOUND SD70M Flared/PHASE II and look at my own future sound install. I od not need a "factory chopped up version" of the Tsunami decoder for the SAME price as a aftermarket one with more options. I will buy my own. Then turn around and sell my Athearn Dc ready board on Ebay for $25-30!! Making my sound upgrade less than it would cost from the factory! I am always thinking about stuff like this! MONEY SAVINGS DAWG! Every engine that looks similar to this from Athearn, I will own! P.S. I KNOW that the Athearn one will not look exactly like this one but close enough.
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Post by peoriaman on Jan 27, 2014 11:12:19 GMT -8
P.S. I KNOW that the Athearn one will not look exactly like this one but close enough. The Athearn one will look BETTER. As long as you don't have any issues with the handrails.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 27, 2014 12:52:02 GMT -8
Naturally the new SD70M is a lot of new tooling... They did a major upgrades not only in details but also to add sound! Back a few years ago when I was trying to convince Athearn to do the flared SD70Ms I was forgetting a major selling point... By redoing the SD70M/75M/75I they could also do the changes necessary to do them sound equipped, and that is where the big money is. (How much do you think the materials for the DCC/Sound chip cost compared to the $100 addition in MSRP?) Easy 50 percent mark up.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 27, 2014 13:00:52 GMT -8
Naturally the new SD70M is a lot of new tooling... They did a major upgrades not only in details but also to add sound! Back a few years ago when I was trying to convince Athearn to do the flared SD70Ms I was forgetting a major selling point... By redoing the SD70M/75M/75I they could also do the changes necessary to do them sound equipped, and that is where the big money is. (How much do you think the materials for the DCC/Sound chip cost compared to the $100 addition in MSRP?) Easy 50 percent mark up.
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Post by curtmc on Jan 27, 2014 13:21:21 GMT -8
Big Al, Have you realized yet that the Athearn UP flared SD70Ms announced are NOT the phase II cab ones? The 4710 series (as announced) have the earlier phase 1 cab like the non-flared SD70Ms. The NS units announced have the later phase II cab, but not the UP ones.
The only UP phase II cab SD70Ms in the entire 4000-4999 series are the 4837-4849 (13 units). UP thought the phase II cab wasn't worth the extra cost and kept getting additional SD70Ms built with the earlier cab. Then later on UP got the 5127-5231 series with the later phase II cab.
PS. Nice looking OMI #4840. I used to have the same model in #4837 and #4844.
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Post by bigb6flyer on Jan 27, 2014 13:51:44 GMT -8
I believe this is my first post on this board. Great to find this board and with so many familiar names.
I'm very excited about this locomotive. I think it is great that Athearn is doing such a good job of listening to its customer base. Sure, there are a lot of modelers that would love to see a return to Blue Box and much lower prices. I too would like to see it as well, but I don't think its realistic. Like many others on this board, I have built several custom pieces that you cannot buy in plastic, including a sd70m in NS and a SD70mac in csx. When you consider the price of the loco, the detail parts, decals, decoder, etc and factor in your time, you come to determine that the price they are asking for is actually somewhat reasonable. There is no substitute, however, to building something yourself from start to finish; it is tremendously satisfying.
I'm in for two of the SD70Ms. NS 2618 and UP Flag 4737. I'll be replacing all the bulbs with LEDs as I always do. Probably go with sound too but I'm tempted to go non-sound on the UP and put in LokSound in it.
Brad
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 27, 2014 14:15:18 GMT -8
Curt - One thing I noticed and now KNOW. The NS version has the Phase II cab and on the model that they had there also had the Phase II cab. That means when they produce the Athearn Flared radiator versions they will ALSO put on the Phase II cab and make those Phase II Sd70M Flared/phase II as well. Just not in the first run. So they will be done, just not first. So it is all good still. In the meantime, I will be focused on LAY AWAY for another Overland SD70M Flared/Phase II and then the MTH ES44AC units.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 27, 2014 14:16:29 GMT -8
Got it all on video to be edited and uploaded soon. All those details I asked and was explained. It is a GREAT detailed video too! Lots of Jokes (Of course) and much information. I bring both those in every video I produce.
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